Starting / charging issues on 3b

[Itsmesg]

Hey guys, hoping you can help me out... I've gotten lots of info from different threads on here, but no answer yet for my issue.
I'll go through bit by bit in case you guys see something I missed.

Truck: BJ42 with 3b, 24volt
Issue:
Over a few days engine was slower and slower to crank and start, finally got into the driveway a couple days ago where it wouldn't start anymore. Lots of relays and glow plugs would trip when ignition turned, but no juice.
Fuel filter light has been on for about a week, even though sedimenter was emptied a couple times, without much water to be seen.
Yesterday I did the following troubleshooting:
Cleaned up all battery posts/connections
I could get it running if the throttle was pinned, but very slow cranking.
Checked battery voltages - passenger 9.7, driver 11.7 when off. (seems pretty low)
Checked fuses, all seemed good.
Checked (starter?) relay at the front driver's corner beside battery according to fsm, seemed fine.
Tried to check voltages/amperage at alternator but didn't. (let's just say I shorted the B terminal to the engine a couple times and went on to something else)
Gave up after it got dark.
Today:
Replaced fuel filter, primed and tested etc etc.
Checked voltage regulator according to fsm, all checked out, though I'm not sure how to check voltage output and adjust it, so only looked at resistances as told, all good.
Found a blown fuse in dual 5A fuse holder near battery, may have been me being clumsy yesterday and shorting things. Replaced it.
Grabbed another battery and used it to jump, engine fired up right away. Left running to see if batteries would charge. Turned off, and wouldn't turn over. Filter light has not turned off at any point in this.
Checked fusible links (only found one by battery?) connection seemed iffy, so bypassed it, jumped and let it run again, no change.
That's about it. Still jumps fine with another battery, but charging system doesn't seem to work.
Also, when it does run, if I turn on the turn signal by itself, it works, but turn on the headlights and the signal stops. Seems consistent with flat batteries?

I'm leaning towards alternator, but I've read of a few of you swapping yours but it not being the issue in the end....

Any thoughts would be great! She's my daily driver, so it sucks to have it sitting.

 

[FF LC FREAK]

Your filter light is also your charge light. It means it is not charging. Try charging the batteries over night if you have a charger. You want both of them to be the same voltage when they are unhooked from each other. Charge them separately. Then start it up and check voltage at the alternator. To do this, just ground your - probe and touch your + probe to the post that connects your wires to the alternator. You shouldn't short anything by doing this.

If your voltage is under about 27 while running at about 1000 rpms, your alternator or voltage regulator is suspect. If you have good voltage, it could be your batteries that are shot. Granted, its probably easiest just to take your batteries in to get tested first, but that is up to you. You could probably even yank out both batteries and alternator and take them all in at the same time. But, if you check a few simple things first, at least you have an idea before you hit the parts store.

Also, check out the diesel section on here. There's lots more info about diesel and 24 volt systems over there. You can find lots of info on charging issues and which batteries are best for diesels.

Good luck!

 

[Dieseler]

If your batteries are reading 9.7 and 11.7 you will never get an even charge from your alternator,usually one will drain off more than the other I would bet it is the lead battery this is a sign your battery is toast...are you tapping any 12V sources off the one battery (never tap 12V off of one battery).

 

[Itsmesg]

See, this is why I love this forum, you guys are great. It's a revelation that the filter light is also the charge light. Stupidly simple, but I had no clue. At least I have a new clean fuel filter, had to try it sometime.

I will try charging or bringing them in for testing tonight, thanks alot for the info FFLCFREAK

If your batteries are reading 9.7 and 11.7 you will never get an even charge from your alternator,usually one will drain off more than the other I would bet it is the lead battery this is a sign your battery is toast...are you tapping any 12V sources off the one battery (never tap 12V off of one battery).

Thanks for the input, I don't have anything running direct 12V off a battery, and nothing I can see that the PO did either.
If it's a battery issue, do they need to be changed out together in this case? I can't see why, but better off knowing. I'll keep searching threads too.

Thanks again guys!!!



how come that guy is holding a glass of wine instead of a beer anyway??

 

[FF LC FREAK]

If it's a battery issue, do they need to be changed out together in this case? I can't see why, but better off knowing. I'll keep searching threads too.

Absolutely. In fact, you even want to go so far as to make sure they are from the same batch of batteries. Check the date tag on the batteries when you buy them. It shouldn't be a big deal at a larger parts house that moves batteries regularly, but you could run in to problems at a smaller place.

From my understanding, if you don't "match" the batteries, you will go through batteries much quicker. Basically, you need them to each be 1/2 the voltage for the system. If they are off, one gets slightly over charged and one gets slightly undercharged. This can quickly lead to problems.

Good luck!

 

[Itsmesg]

Hey guys, thanks again

So this is the latest:
charged the batteries and reinstalled.
fired up immediately and ran fine.
measured 25.1volts at the alternator, 12.5 on batteries
Charge light still on.
Finally got to use that little toyota trouble light that comes with the cruiser, since I recently found out (on here probably) plugs in inside the glove box. Why didn't I think of that?? So obvious! Works great, nice and bright.
Looked over a bunch of wiring again for loose connections, blown fuses etc, but can't see anything obvious.
Could this be a grounding thing?

 

[tommyt]

Here's my input. After 20 years on 24v systems, I would lean toward your alt being pooched. Usually a good alt will put out at least 13.5 or 26.5v depending on the system 12 0r 24v. I've seen alts put out spec voltage but very little amperage. My suggestion would be to take it to someone with an ampmeter. Have them test the alt amp output along with the output voltage. Also have them properly load test your batteries. This means a quick charge for 3 to 5 mins and then let them sit for the same amount of time. Then with a load tester load them down ( 1 at a time ) to half cold cranking amperage ( CCA ) for 15 seconds. If the voltage drops below 9.6 volts the battery is toast. If your alt is pooched your batteries are likley done to. If you find your batts and alt are OK ask the mechanic to do a starting and charging system voltage drop test ( if anybody still knows how ) Canadian tire might be able do most of this work. If not find an old heavy duty mechanic. Good luck I'll try to follow up.

 

[Vicm]

Have you checked the drive belt?

 

[Itsmesg]

Okay, latest update,

Checked belts, had to tighten both, did some tracing of wires to look for bad connections, started it up a couple times with no difference. Decided to check the voltage regulator once more, now that I'm more comfortable with what I'm looking at and less likely to dead short stuff. Do that enough and you'll learn. Apparently I can be clumsy, so I slowed down and took more time to learn where, what and why and be more careful.
Anyway, I did find a bad set after measuring the regulator again, so that's what I'm going to try to replace. I found if I manually tripped the voltage relay, the charge light would go out, which seems to support the VR being a culprit, if maybe not The culprit.

I've had a quick look to source another one, any suggestions on the best place to get another? My best guess from reading is this one another Mud guy suggested:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...v-regulator-there-substitute.html#post5345835

I think I can order it through a local parts place, and haven't found another direct replacement yet.

Thanks again for the continued suggestions!

 

[Itsmesg]

Has been a couple weeks with no luck for finding a new regulator. Think I found one today, so hope to find out tomorrow. In the meantime I bought a battery charger and have been ok to at least drive to work and back without issue!
I think I finally understand what full fielding means, so will try that in the next while to see if alt is ok. Would be nice not to pull it since it still drives, but we'll see what happens!

Fiance bought me some new custom plates for father's day (apparently having a dog makes me a father), so put those on. At least it's something!

 

[Itsmesg]

Found a regulator online a few days ago, contacted the guy and went and got it yesterday. It was a couple hours away which was too bad since the weather was awesome and we couldn't take the cruiser, but we made a day of it and went to Port Dover, the big beach down near the pickup. He also had a set of lenses for the front turn signals so I got those too.

We were out late last night, so finally got to put the "new" regulator in this morning. His was off of an 81 BJ, he had bought a new one after having a similar problem but turned out it was a ground issue instead. As a lot of you have said, check the grounds! Turned out well for me!

So I plugged it in and fired her up, fingers crossed.

No more charge light! Crossed my fingers again, hoping that it would measure well at the alternator too. Boosted the idle a bit and after about 15 seconds got 28V out of it, and the battery measured at 14.1.

Thank you guys for all the help, it wasn't fun sourcing the part, but thanks to you guys and a bit from the fsm I narrowed it down and learned a lot on the way.

CHEERS!!

 

[AJAEbj42]

Finally got to use that little toyota trouble light that comes with the cruiser, since I recently found out (on here probably) plugs in inside the glove box. Why didn't I think of that?? So obvious! Works great, nice and bright.

I says to myself... there's a trouble light plug in the glove box?

So I have a look and I'll be darned, there is one!

Do you have a picture of the trouble light? I'd love to see it!

 

[Itsmesg]

I says to myself... there's a trouble light plug in the glove box?

So I have a look and I'll be darned, there is one!

Do you have a picture of the trouble light? I'd love to see it!

That's what I said. It's a bizarre little feature, but definitely handy!
Here's a pic I got online from cruisercorps.com they sell it for $40. Never bought from there myself.

 

[Itsmesg]

Latest news

drove to work this morning, charge light pops on again. then off, then on. and repeats repeatedly.
seems to be related to the rpm's, if revved up a bit it goes away, then comes on at idle. My thoughts are with adjusting the relay sensitivity of the voltage regulator as I had ok voltage off the alternator. would this make sense? and has anyone done the adjustment? I have played a bit, but not sure on the exact method.

Pliers.
Bend.
Watch for light to turn off at idle?
Repeat?

 

[FF LC FREAK]

Latest news

drove to work this morning, charge light pops on again. then off, then on. and repeats repeatedly.
seems to be related to the rpm's, if revved up a bit it goes away, then comes on at idle. My thoughts are with adjusting the relay sensitivity of the voltage regulator as I had ok voltage off the alternator. would this make sense? and has anyone done the adjustment? I have played a bit, but not sure on the exact method.

Pliers.
Bend.
Watch for light to turn off at idle?
Repeat?

Yes, I've done it. Its not tough. But don't rely on the light. Use a multimeter. Mine started at 26 volts. A slight bend to the arm took it to 32 volts. Sure, the charge light went off, but before too long, all my lights would have gone off at that voltage! You just have to keep tweaking it until you get it right. Remember, your alternator will not put out full amps until about 1000 - 1500 RPMs. Its better to set it at that speed rather than idle. Check it at both idle and 1500 RPMs with your multimeter and see how you do. You need to shut off the ignition between "tweaks" so that you don't short anything. If you touch the wrong thing, "BZZZT!".

Edit: The 3B FSM has a decent write up on how to do this with pictures. If you don't have the FSM, you can download it. The link is in the diesel section. Look at page 300 or section CH-22.

Good luck!

 

[Itsmesg]

Hey guys, thought I would post a follow up! Finally had a chance to spend some time again, I did the ammeter check a while ago and got no current out of the alternator, so finally pulled it this morning. Opened it up and did some checks according to the FSM, looks like the rotor is shot. Didn't do too much further investigating as I think I'll bring it to an alt guy, now that I know it obviously has issues. It wasn't too bad pulling the alt out, I've been putting it off because I thought it would be painful, but took less than a half hour, probably would take half that to do again.

So at this point I just need to get it rebuilt or find parts..... A bunch of family is coming out for my wedding in a few weeks, so I thought it would be nice to have her running well and take the boys out for a little offroading if there's time.

edit: props to tommyt for his guess at the alternator being suspect.