Spindle Damage Cause? (1 Viewer)

[CaptBeardilocks]

Last year, I replaced my spindles & wheels bearings during some routine maintenance. This year, after only 12k miles, I'm in there again because of a prematurely failed axle seal.

This is what my spindles looked like after only 12k miles. Darkening in present at both the inner & outer bearing only on the Lower Half of the spindle. Interestingly both sides (driver/passenger) were almost identical.

Is there a reason for this that I'm missing? Wheel bearing preload too tight or too loose? Trunnion bearing preload incorrect? Normal?

Top (no damage):

Side:

Bottom:

 

[Broski]

Last year, I replaced my spindles & wheels bearings during some routine maintenance. This year, after only 12k miles, I'm in there again because of a prematurely failed axle seal.

This is what my spindles looked like after only 12k miles. Darkening in present at both the inner & outer bearing only on the Lower Half of the spindle. Interestingly both sides (driver/passenger) were almost identical.

Is there a reason for this that I'm missing? Wheel bearing preload too tight or too loose? Trunnion bearing preload incorrect? Normal?

Top (no damage):
View attachment 3711285

Side:
View attachment 3711286

Bottom:
View attachment 3711287

If there’s no lip it would not concern me.

 

[Squeegee]

If there’s no lip it would not concern me.

I second this

 

[oilbrnr]

OEM bearings? Given the fact they spun, I’d guess too much pre-load, tho that would seem like quite a bit of pre…

 

[CaptBeardilocks]

Koyo bearings. Pre-load set per FSM with fish scale.

Theres a tiny tiny bit of a lip barely started on one spot. At the very bottom on one and you’ve gotta be kinda zen to feel it with your fingernail.

My trunnion bearings are showing some slight roller-grooving in the races already as well. I figured that’s because those never get turned very far.

 

[landtank]

I find the fish scale method to be too loose. My work ok on mall cruisers but not so much off-roading.

Was there any play in the bearings 12 - 6?

 

[CaptBeardilocks]

One side had no play, one side had a very very little play.

Neither had any play about 6k miles ago, the last time I rotated my tires.

I would have no problem setting pre-load a bit tighter since I’m off road a lot if you think that would help.

Thanks!

 

[oilbrnr]

I find the fish scale method to be too loose. My work ok on mall cruisers but not so much off-roading.

Was there any play in the bearings 12 - 6?

Ok, so you feel there are greater loads put on a wheel bearing off-road vs. the gyroscopic loads applied from a 100lbs + spinning wheel/tire combo does at 75mph…

 

[landtank]

i just know that trucks that are setup with the fish scale method tend to develop loose bearings not to long after the rebuild. I'll leave it up to you to calculate any correlation to gyroscopic loads.

 

[Rusty Marlin]

Looks like spun bearings to me. Got a set of mics big enough to measure 12-6 and 3-9 and see if there is a differance?

 

[BILT4ME]

Last year, I replaced my spindles & wheels bearings during some routine maintenance. This year, after only 12k miles, I'm in there again because of a prematurely failed axle seal.

This is what my spindles looked like after only 12k miles. Darkening in present at both the inner & outer bearing only on the Lower Half of the spindle. Interestingly both sides (driver/passenger) were almost identical.

Is there a reason for this that I'm missing? Wheel bearing preload too tight or too loose? Trunnion bearing preload incorrect? Normal?

Top (no damage):
View attachment 3711285

Side:
View attachment 3711286

Bottom:
View attachment 3711287

This indicates your preload was too loose. The brown spots are where it overheated the grease between the race and the spindle.

You should set your inner nut at 35 LB-FT while rotating. Do this 3 times, loosening it in between, then the outer nut at 45 LB-FT.

It is well documented that the FSM for the USA trucks is incorrect and lists them as LB-IN.
The fish scale doesn't really work well because the new greases are much better than 30 years ago.

I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky 2 for the wheel bearings and I tried the fish scale and could never get up to the setting for rotational force no matter how tight or loose I tightened the bearings.

 

[CaptBeardilocks]

I’ll check for any variance in the AM.

Best way to avoid spinning anything what shouldn’t be spun other than doing everything by the book? Tighter preload?

I spend more time on moderately rough/washboarded roads than hard wheeling. Was running 33s about to jump to 35s. So I haven’t been abusing the front end that badly.

EDIT: posts crossed mid-stream. Thanks Bilt

 

[landtank]

Looks like spun bearings to me. Got a set of mics big enough to measure 12-6 and 3-9 and see if there is a differance?

I’ve seen markings like that and figured it was the race shifting from having some bearing play.

 

[COS80]

This indicates your preload was too loose. The brown spots are where it overheated the grease between the race and the spindle.

You should set your inner nut at 35 LB-FT while rotating. Do this 3 times, loosening it in between, then the outer nut at 45 LB-FT.

It is well documented that the FSM for the USA trucks is incorrect and lists them as LB-IN.
The fish scale doesn't really work well because the new greases are much better than 30 years ago.

I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky 2 for the wheel bearings and I tried the fish scale and could never get up to the setting for rotational force no matter how tight or loose I tightened the bearings.

So if the fish scale doesn't work, what does? I used the same grease and followed the manual to a tee, and now I have a clunk in the driveline.

 

[BILT4ME]

I’ll check for any variance in the AM.

Best way to avoid spinning anything what shouldn’t be spun other than doing everything by the book? Tighter preload?

I spend more time on moderately rough/washboarded roads than hard wheeling. Was running 33s about to jump to 35s. So I haven’t been abusing the front end that badly.

EDIT: posts crossed mid-stream. Thanks Bilt

I have 33" tires, many others have 35" and 37".

This method was originally used with GM front axles when I first started doing axles 40+ years ago.

One of the key advisors on here had posted this a number of years ago and is credited with bringing it to this forum. @Tools R Us was excellent in all his advice and that's what he ran on his.

I am primarily highway and do about 20K miles/ year and do all my own work. The first time I did it, I tried to follow the FSM to the tee and they were loose within 5000 miles.

If you search wheel bearing torque, you'll find posts by both he and I addressing these procedures.

 

[BILT4ME]

So if the fish scale doesn't work, what does? I used the same grease and followed the manual to a tee, and now I have a clunk in the driveline.

Follow the procedure I listed in the post you quoted.

Loose wheel bearings rarely necessarily cause a clunk in the drive line. It's usually poor steering, poor braking, wandering when driving,

A clunk is usually drive shafts, axles, drive flanges, loose motor mounts or transmission mounts, broken or loose shocks.

Go to www.partsouq.com to get all part numbers.

 

[COS80]

Follow the procedure I listed in the post you quoted.

Loose wheel bearings rarely necessarily cause a clunk in the drive line. It's usually poor steering, poor braking, wandering when driving,

Ok, so just torque values. Easy enough.

I have those issues, too, inc. my first-ever death wobble on my last drive.

 

[BILT4ME]

Ok, so just torque values. Easy enough.

I have those issues, too, inc. my first-ever death wobble on my last drive.

Also check your tie rod ends, drag link ends, lateral control arm bushings, and the nuts on the bottom of the steering arm.

If you had the arm off, make sure to use a deadblow hammer to massage it while tightening the four knuckle nuts on each side. Those are known to work loose.

Also, the control arm support bracket under the steering gear tends to crack away from the frame and needs to be welded. Clean it off and inspect it closely.

 

[Godwin]

I think it will be important, at some point, to replace all the spindle nuts, washers, and starred washer with new. I was having issues with my front hubs on my FJ60 and when I last rebuilt the front hubs replaced all the studs, nuts, cone washers, spindle fasteners with new. I then followed the advice posted above with setting torque for hubs and have had no issues.

 

[thatcabledude]

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