Soon to be attempted 4M50->FZJ80 swap

[Zwcruiser]

I tell you, this wiring is a pain and a half! (Well, maybe more than that):{
A couple weeks ago I removed the chassis harness that has all the plugs for the engine and transmission, after that I pulled the anaconda (in-cab harness) out. I've never wrestled a snake before but I think this comes pretty close to it So far I have the ECU, TCU, EDU(Engine Drive Unit) and Pedal Position Sensor fully separated from the rest of the jumbled mass. All of these systems are connected to each other, with plenty of other wires going other places too. At each cut I put a numbered piece of tape on both ends; I'm not sure if this was necessary since they're all color coded but I went ahead and did it. Today I was feeling like I need to hurry up and get this thing over with before it gets me! I hope that I don't have to go back and redo things, but I started looking at the diagrams for the relay box and fuse box and just cutting out and removing wires for things that I don't think I'll need like power windows, lights, ac system, windshield wipers etc.... This did start to cut down on the mess a little bit, but there were also some wires that were interconnected with systems that I don't need and some that I do. I guess it won't be the end of the world if I end up having to go back and splice something back in. I am thinking that I will put the relay and fuse boxes in the Cruiser to support everything hooked up to them unless I come up with something else. Any advice? Also, will I need to do anything with splicing into the key switch or is that what the switched power or EFI relay is used for? I appreciate everyone's input; this wiring business is definitely turning out to be the hardest part.

 

[Zwcruiser]

This is where things stand so far....

 

[chroad]

Where does this swap stand? I'm in suspense. Please document the wiring you do... I'm sure it will be the hardest part, and I'd love to learn from your experience, hoping that I get to do this swap in the future.

 

[Pacer]

Couple notes and some reading (a lot) for those interested in the motor Zwcruiser is using for this build.
http://www.steldiesel.ru/files/tnvddenso-s-klap.pdf

SuperHatch is correct; there is no EGR up to '05.

The early ones, through `04, are not common rail.
They use a Denso ECD-v4, rotary distributor type injection pump. It is similar to the old Bosch VE, but electronically controlled.

I also believe some of the HDJ LandCruisers use this same pump.
If this opens up some opportunities/insight for folks please post up, I need a part (SPV solenoid) for mine because I am ham-fisted! Toyota dealers don't seem to carry parts for Denso.

PS: Superhatch, Fromage; there is information deep in this PDF that speaks directly to the resistors you guys tried changing on your pumps. It is indeed the final stage of information the ECU uses to adjust injection timing/duration.

Thanks for the space Zwcruiser, hope it is useful. How's the build? Running?

Cheers,

 

[Zwcruiser]

If I have a good week I hope to at least be able to start it up this weekend; at this point the whole wiring harness from inside the cab is put back together on the basement floor waiting for me to find the final residence of all the boxes and modules before I cut the wires to the length they need to be and solder the connections. As far as documenting what I do with all the wiring let me see if it runs first and then I'll try to describe everything that I did and what I should have done differently. If anyone needs the Mitsubishi service manual I have one on PDF that covers the FE/FG, FH and FK/FM models. The whole file is 242MB, but I might be able to separate the first part (FE/FG) and have a much smaller file. Does anyone know what is the latest available Land Cruiser FSM? I have several PDFs for the body, engine, electical etc... but I think there could easily be some updated versions. SuperHatch, if it's not too much trouble you could send me that PDF you had mentioned awhile back and I'll see if it's newer than what I have.

 

[longbow]

Subscribed, This looks pretty interesting!

 

[Zwcruiser]

Anyone have ideas about what I should do about this clearance issue? The bottom of the bellhousing sort of rests on the sway bar: I would just grind/cut some of the material away but those two holes are bolt holes for the bottom flywheel cover that gets removed for timing purposes when setting valve clearance. That .25 spacer plate is really coming back to bite me! Should I make a sway bar drop block? Would I have any problems having drop blocks with no lift? (Although some sort of suspension upgrade may be somewhere off in the future.) A thicker spacer plate is definitely something that I would do differently if (when) I do this again, but that would probably require slight modifications with some of the shift linkage and park rod.

 

[Pacer]

ZW, yes please on the manual, I have a version for the Mitsu Bus, but it is for the later common rail 4m50.
I think I will try and post mine to the file sharing site mentioned in several of these threads.
Downloads Index - Page: 1
maybe you could do the same...

I'd ditch the sway bar for now, or blocks like you mentioned should have little ill effect.
I worry about the fire wall clearance too, my engine rocks side to side A LOT on start up and shutdown.

Would you expand on the want for a thicker tail housing spacer? In order to move the motor/trans further forward?

 

[Zwcruiser]

I registered on the daemon4x4 site and looked around for a place to upload but didn't see any. I sent an email to that site's admin. asking how to upload, so once I figure out how I'll do that. I also found an FSM and EWD from 96 for the FZJ80 so I'm no longer in need of those. My reasons for wanting a thicker spacer plate have to do with clearance issues, definitely with the firewall and bellhousing/swaybar. A spacer of .5" would make it easier, .75 would be even better and 1" would likely eliminate the clearance issues. I'm fairly sure that 1" would be doable, but one should definitely make sure by measuring/lining up the spacer rings on the output shaft and park gear etc... If needed it is very easy to make new lock ring grooves with a Dremel cutoff wheel on the shaft. Either Fromage or SuperHatch describe how to go about lengthening the park rod on their build thread, which does become necessary with a thicker spacer plate. I got by without that......kind of a trade off. I think it would likely be easier to make those few modifications rather than deal with trying to dent the firewall and making swaybar blocks. Does anyone else here have the 4M50? If so, what is it in? I would be glad to hear anything that anyone has to say about their experience/impressions with this engine.

 

[astr]

... My reasons for wanting a thicker spacer plate have to do with clearance issues, definitely with the firewall and bellhousing/swaybar. A spacer of .5" would make it easier, .75 would be even better and 1" would likely eliminate the clearance issues. I'm fairly sure that 1" would be doable, but one should definitely make sure by measuring/lining up the spacer rings on the output shaft and park gear etc....

The thickness of the spacer that goes between the transmission and the T-case adapter is to compensate for the differences between the A442F and the AW450, It positions the park gear in the proper place in the T-case adapter. If you go thicker than required, the park pawl will miss or only partially engage the park gear and you will only have partial engagement of the output shaft with the T-case.

It would be easier to just move the engine, transmission and T-case forward and adjust the lengths of the driveshafts accordingly.

 

[Zwcruiser]

It would be easier to just move the engine, transmission and T-case forward and adjust the lengths of the driveshafts accordingly.

I've actually considered that. I haven't welded the motor mounts in place yet so I guess I would be looking at moving the crossmember up maybe an inch and drilling/tapping new holes and then the driveshafts. The front driveshaft would have to be shortened for sure, not sure about the rear. What is involved in shortening and lengthening a driveshaft?

 

[Pacer]

Your the first I have heard of doing this swap, my 4m50/aw450 is still in the Fuso. I'm wating to see how yours turns out
Modifying a drive shaft is usually best left to a professional, although it has been covered here many times...

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/213245-so-if-i-weld-my-oun-driveshaft.html

Thanks for the updates!

 

[longbow]

I stopped having shops build my driveshafts when they went over $150 to have one shortened and over $200 for lengthening here locally.

I built my own jig and put the female side of the slip joint in the lathe and turn it true and fit it tight to the tube section and then dial it in with the dial indicator and then lightly tack weld it on 4 sides making sure it doesn't move during the process and then I tack 4 more times in between the other tacks and then once I am sure it is still staying straight and within a few thousandths of runout, I run a bead all the way around with good penetration. After I get it all done, then I take it down to the driveshaft shop and have them balance the rear shaft only because here in AZ we never need 4wd on the highway. My shop charges $30 to balance and I can live with that price, but not $350. It's not rocket science, but you do need to keep the shaft in the same phase that it was before you cut it. I always mark the tube on both sides of the cut and both sides of the slip joint to make sure I put the shaft back just as the factory built it and balanced it originally.

Here is a pic of my crude, but effective jig that I made out of materials I had laying around.

The back end is just a flange fit into a pillow block bearing and the front is two roller bearings I had mounted on screws with jam nuts with a v cut on the upright piece. I wouldn't be afraid to build my own as long as you are careful and I would really get it balanced if it was going to be used at highway speeds.

Hope this helps,

Don

 

[Zwcruiser]

I called a drive shaft place in town and was asking him about getting one worked on; he asked what it was out of and when I told him a Land Cruiser he was like "Oh!" as if he knew what it was. He said around $50 to shorten and balance. I didn't think to ask about lengthening, but I guess it wouldn't be that much more?
I tried to upload a video that I took when I put all the wires together and turned the engine over but it wouldn't upload.
What kind of thoughts are out there about how much forward is too much (too much weight too far forward) and also how level/tilted front to back should the engine sit?
I'm thinking that instead of using the engine driven fan I might use the transmission cooler and A/C radiator from the truck since both of them have their own fans.

 

[Pacer]

I called a drive shaft place in town and was asking him about getting one worked on; he asked what it was out of and when I told him a Land Cruiser he was like "Oh!" as if he knew what it was. He said around $50 to shorten and balance. I didn't think to ask about lengthening, but I guess it wouldn't be that much more?
I tried to upload a video that I took when I put all the wires together and turned the engine over but it wouldn't upload.
What kind of thoughts are out there about how much forward is too much (too much weight too far forward) and also how level/tilted front to back should the engine sit?
I'm thinking that instead of using the engine driven fan I might use the transmission cooler and A/C radiator from the truck since both of them have their own fans.

Nice, good $ and local!

Did it run? or mash your firewall, intake?

Do you feel this engine weighs about the same as the one that came out? It is shorter too, no?
You could come forward some, 2" get you clear? diff clearance?

I really like the idea of the electric fans. Use the Fuso trans cooler and condenser right behind the 80's rad and let the fans pull. Have to have the coolant temp control the fans though... Doing this keeps the A/C work simple too.


I'm full of questions

 

[Fromage]

Keep in mind that moving it forward pushes it into the diff area. I ran mine way back to try and keep the pan out of the diff and steering gear. This engine may be different but it looks to be the same size. I don't think moving it forward has any other major negative effects.

On the bellhousing to swaybar interference, mine has about 1/4 inch of clearance and it has never hit. I was going to space the swaybar down with some blocks at the bushings but it is not necessary. Maybe you can just raise the engine a bit?

 

[Zwcruiser]

Well I have some pictures to show and updates to give. I decided to go ahead and move everything forward (1 3/4"), and this picture shows the 1/4" plate welded onto the frame rail. I drilled and tapped through the plate and the frame since it would have been beyond my ambitions to place new captive nuts inside the frame. With the extra space there is just over 3" between the face of the turbo and the firewall so I had an exhaust shop make me an 18" downpipe welded onto a flange that bolts to the turbo (which does fit without the manifold having to be flipped). When I decide whether I want a muffler in there or if a straight pipe will work I'll just get it cut off to the right length. This forward shift also fixed the clearance issues with the back of the engine and firewall.

 

[Zwcruiser]

Up next is my engine mount job. I think that very soon I'm going to be extending my bump stops and getting a 2-3" lift. There's a little over 1" clearance between the differential and the mount, center of hub to bottom of flare is between 19" and 20", and the bump stops are about 1 1/2" from contact. Once I can drive it I'll take it to a drive on scale so I can get exact axle weights to figure out if 850/850J springs will be enough or if I'll need the competition spring.

 

[Zwcruiser]

Now on to the remote oil filter job....... I used the aluminum that was left over from the transmission spacer plate and had the machine shop make me two plates to correspond to the shape of the oil filter assembly with the proper holes. This filter has both a full flow and a bypass filter within the cartridge: one of the lines is a relief valve that will open up if the pressure gets too high due to cold oil or a plugged filter. I was told that the InstaGrip hose and fittings are good to 300psi-without hose clamps. After putting them on I don't have much trouble believing it! I got the first one partially on when it decided it wasn't going on anymore, nor was it coming off......had to cut it off and then lube everything up with some oil before I got them on.

 

[Zwcruiser]

The finished product. That nitrile hose isn't cheap- $0.75 per inch x 3.5ft. I should have searched the internet for some alternative but I needed to go ahead and get something. In the stock format the metal tube in the first picture goes all the way down and connects to the top of the filter assembly. I cut it and slipped the hose over the ends. I measured the volume of the 7/8" hose and it holds 2 cups.