So uh... I got a buttload of dirt in my turbo

[joshoisasleep]

Scoring isn't the only way crud can wreck your compression. Maybe you gummed the **** out of your rings and they're stuck...?

Typing at the same time...

What like the pistons physically don't want to move?? That actually kinda makes sense. I mean with all that dust and dirt in there as a starter... maybe the silicone glued it all together?? I know I keep going back to the silicone thing and you guys probably it's kinda silly, but it's just that it's the ONLY thing introduced between when the engine was working fine, and not working.

 

[joshoisasleep]

Also, while this won't affect the starting issue, check the venturi's near the intake butterfly, as well as the vacuum line to the IP. If they're plugged you won't have throttle control, your engine will rev all the way up if they can't apply some suck to the IP.

Are you sure they wouldn't affect starting?? Remember I'm still at 8,000 feet...

 

[amaurer]

Typing at the same time...

What like the pistons physically don't want to move?? That actually kinda makes sense. I mean with all that dust and dirt in there as a starter... maybe the silicone glued it all together?? I know I keep going back to the silicone thing and you guys probably it's kinda silly, but it's just that it's the ONLY thing introduced between when the engine was working fine, and not working.

No, if the engine is turning over then the pistons aren't stuck - thatd be very bad and is a different animal. I've just heard that the rings which provide the sealing surface can get gummed up and not seat properly against the cylinder walls, which affects your compression. Its a long shot, honestly.

Originally Posted by amaurer
Also, while this won't affect the starting issue, check the venturi's near the intake butterfly, as well as the vacuum line to the IP. If they're plugged you won't have throttle control, your engine will rev all the way up if they can't apply some suck to the IP.

Are you sure they wouldn't affect starting?? Remember I'm still at 8,000 feet...

The more vacuum applied to the IP, the lower the fuel setting - e.g. full vacuum = idle, no vacuum = WOT (wide open throttle). So if everything is crudded up then the IP will be stuck at WOT and the engine will race... but it would definitely start. That is probably not your starting problem.

 

[Tapage]

Reading your thread .. just come with some fresh ideas ( hope are fresh)

1. When you crankyour engine, there is a suction at the intake ( turbo out of the scene ) ?

2. When you crank your engine there is a exuast pressure .. ?

IF there is fuel at the precup and air .. the other only option for no run diesel engine it's to low compresion.. Since the diesel mixture burn atleast with 290 PSI less than dead engine ..

 

[cruiser_guy]

OK, you've tested the glow plugs and you DO have continuity on them so they are fine. Reinstall the glow plugs and all their connectors and bussbars. The next test you enlist the help of one of your partners. You get the multimeter set to DC volts and one lead on the glow plug tip, any one will do, and the other on ground. While holding the leads in place your partner turns the key to "Glow". If you get 12v then the glow relay is good, if you do not get 12v the glow relay is bad. You may not get 12v the second or third time depending on what the glow relay is doing as it warms up.

If the glows get power and are good you can eliminate them as a potential source of your problems and move on to fuel.

For a compression test you need a diesel compression tester. A gasoline compression tester is not rated at a high enough pressure. If that's all you have you should pin any gas compression tester at the highest pressure displayed..

 

[joshoisasleep]

Just did the DC voltage test. Battery terminals give 12.4V to my multimeter but glow plug tips only give 10.4V. I made sure I had a good connection with the multimeter by first testing resistance and then switching to volts once it was on right.

Glow plug relay here I come... I'm not sure if my manual covers it... it's not an engine manual as far as I know. Oh well I'll give it a go and see if I can follow the wires back and find it.

 

[amaurer]

Just did the DC voltage test. Battery terminals give 12.4V to my multimeter but glow plug tips only give 10.4V. I made sure I had a good connection with the multimeter by first testing resistance and then switching to volts once it was on right.

Glow plug relay here I come... I'm not sure if my manual covers it... it's not an engine manual as far as I know. Oh well I'll give it a go and see if I can follow the wires back and find it.

10.4V is OK and normal - means your plugs have the proper voltage and your relay is working fine.

Your glow system is not to blame, I'm afraid.

 

[joshoisasleep]

1. When you crankyour engine, there is a suction at the intake ( turbo out of the scene ) ?

2. When you crank your engine there is a exuast pressure .. ?

Just put my hand over the intake and there is definitely suction... more than I expected my hand almost stuck to it. Didn't want to put my hand over the exhaust but it visibly spits out smoke.

Also, the "stink pipe" doesn't seem to give anything out... these things are promising at least, except that everything else still points to the compression.

10.4V is OK and normal - means your plugs have the proper voltage and your relay is working fine.

Your glow system is not to blame, I'm afraid.

Rats. There I was all hopefull. The plugs still don't seem to get warm on top to the touch though? Maybe I'm just looking for more warmth than is going to happen.


Are there any gaskets anywhere that I can blow that would affect compression? Anything like that that's not cylinder walls?!

 

[TOBASH]

Might be bad fuel, or bad filter. My golden rule is; start from the simple and go to complex and start from the cheapest and move to expensive and start with the easy then move to the tough. Get some quality diesel OR cooking oil and run a "T" to a fuel line to a funnel to your filter. Then see if you bought some bad fuel with tons of water in it.

Another method would be to remove your fuel filter and replace it with a filter filled with quality veggie oil that you might heat to 120 degrees in a boiling tin of water. Use gloves!

Are you sure your filter is good? A clogged filter from cheapo stations will kill your engine right there and then. Why? A Diesel filter has no blow by, so when they get full they clog and act like a plug in the fuel system. That is by design to keep crappy dirt and such from getting into the engine.


Bad fuel or gasoline in the fuel will smoke at the tailpipe but won't burn properly as it has a high octane rating. Low octane is what you need for Diesels. Water in the fuel is also a distinct possibility due to cheap fuel or bad tanks or low level in the tanks.

I am beginning to suspect that with a Diesel engine that cranks and has fuel to the engine, that something else is wrong like bad fuel or perhaps gasoline instead of fuel. Either that or a partially clogged or dead filter. Bad fuel is common in Central and South America. It either wont burn, or it will clog the filter. It even happens in the USA and Canada. Don't just rule it out 'cause you feel Chile is not 3'rd World. It happens in all Worlds. My family is from Panama, so ask me how I know all this.

Unless you have like less than 200 compression pressures, you should be OK to drive on a Diesel engine.

Best of luck y Vaya con Dios.

T

 

[crushers]

the tops of the glow plugs do nto get warm, the bottoms get red hot.

dirt coming through the valve system is never a good thing. pull the glows back out and crank over the engine, you should see gasses blowing out those holes and maybe some dirt etc.
you got fuel, you got air, you got glow
how about oil pressure? no oil pressure and the 3B wont run (usually start and then die but in your case it might be more severe)

just guessing at this point...

 

[cruiser_guy]

Yes, 10.4v is just fine on the glow plugs. I forgot about the resistor and all that stuff.

What have you found as far as diesel at your injectors? If you loosen the injector lines off (do NOT take them right off, maybe loose a 1/2 turn or so) do you get diesel spitting out of each line when you try cranking?

If not, try bleeding the system starting with the fuel filter and proceeding to the injection pump (both by the manual priming pump) and finally the injectors (first with the priming pump and finally by cranking the engine). If it is air locked it may cough and die a few times before running smoothly so if it coughs keep going, you're almost there!!

When bleeding the filter the fuel should come out in a smooth stream and soak your arm as you pump the priming pump. If it is just a trickle, replace the fuel filter with a spare (you do have a spare fuel filter, right?).

If it is really cold you may have the fuel gelling in which case add a liter or two of kerosene to the fuel tank and mix it around as best you can (shake the truck) before bleeding and cranking.

If you bleed it and then try starting and it doesn't work see if there is air in the lines again, maybe there is an air leak under the truck or in the fuel lines somewhere. If it is on the suction side you may not see fuel leakage.

Diesels are really simple, give them fuel and air and they run assuming compression is fine. I really doubt that a day in the dust would kill the engine as folks here in Guatemala often drive around without an air filter or filter housing at all for weeks or longer!?!?

If it is cold at all stick with petro-diesel, #1 if you have a choice. #1 is winter grade, #2 is summer grade (unless I have that backwards).

 

[cruiser_guy]

Wayne, doesn't the EDIC relay allow for the engine to start and run normally for 5-10 seconds even without oil pressure? I haven't seen it not allow the engine to start. He also says the EDIC motor moves, so the the relay, and therefore the oil pressure, are allowing the truck to get fuel, at least mechanically.

 

[cody c]

i believe the edic controls fuel, if you have the glow plugs out and turn it over and find diesel/air coming out of the glow plug holes this would tell you a little more.
no quick start?

 

[Tapage]

Wayne, doesn't the EDIC relay allow for the engine to start and run normally for 5-10 seconds even without oil pressure? I haven't seen it not allow the engine to start. He also says the EDIC motor moves, so the the relay, and therefore the oil pressure, are allowing the truck to get fuel, at least mechanically.

I'm with you Cruiser_guy .. just thought the oil press it's a godd advice by Wayne ...

If you have air and diesel ( injectors test as described Cruiser_guy in the previous post ) the only other option why the 3B aren't running it's the comp ..

With the comp test we can move in other segment as valves .. ot timing ?

 

[lumpy70]

I hate to be the one to suggest this, but if all other avenues are exhausted, maybe you need to pull the head and really see if there is silicone, dust, dirt, crap or whatever in there.

A 3B will run with scored cylinder walls, but if the valves are being prevented from closing then no go.

Just my two cents.

Craig.

 

[joshoisasleep]

OK the bad fuel one is something I'm going to look more into. Since it hadn't been spluttering but rather just not started at all it didn't really cross my mind. However it is an optimistic thought... Over the previous 6 days all the fuel that went into that truck was bought in a remote region of Bolivia from two different fuel stations that were both at the dregs of their tanks... then it was stored in cheap jerry cans which by design must have caused at the very least some dirt to end up in the fuel when refueling (and filling the jerry's). Now, my truck is at the bottom of it's tank and sitting parked nose pointing uphill...
It sounds like a long shot at this point but a really happy one if it was the case.

I did crack the injector nuts and saw fuel seepage on each one after a crank or two earlier.

I don't have any ether or anything like that if that's what you mean by quick start... I doubt I could find some. Brake fluid says flamable on the can?

Cruiser_guy what do you mean don't take them off? When I "cracked" the 17mm nuts earlier I actually loosened them all the way off... I didn't pull the injector lines off of anything, but the nuts did spin free...

 

[joshoisasleep]

I hate to be the one to suggest this, but if all other avenues are exhausted, maybe you need to pull the head and really see if there is silicone, dust, dirt, crap or whatever in there.

A 3B will run with scored cylinder walls, but if the valves are being prevented from closing then no go.

Just my two cents.

Craig.

Do you think I could I just try cranking it with the valve cover off and watch what the valves do? I mean yeah it'll be a bit of an oil mess... (hey it always is anyway)

edit: I guess even with the valve cover off I wouldn't be able to see whether or not the valves were closing fully... just if that they were moving, which they pretty much have to be doing.

the tops of the glow plugs do nto get warm, the bottoms get red hot.

Thanks for the clarification on that. Also I'll try cranking with plugs out tomorrow morning... see what comes out.

 

[cody c]

you should be able to see if they are closing all the way, as you should have like .010 or .015 clearance, so you may be able to feel the tiniest bit of slop.

I dont have as much experience as many of the others on here with the 3B, but i got a feeling it is either bad fuel or you glow plugs arent working. So some good diesel, a new fuel filter and some ether would be nice. All things which i dont believe you have with you though. Hindsight is 20/20.

Although at this point it seems like pulling the cylinder head off to have a better look doesnt seem like a bad idea, you should have a head gasket, and you could possibly damage something else, opening up another can of worms.

 

[cruiser_guy]

If the nuts are off when cranking you could be sprayed with high pressure diesel fuel, a VERY unpleasant experience I'm sure!

I like Cody's idea. Set the crankshaft as if doing a valve adjustment and see if there is clearance at valves that are supposed to be closed. It's a long shot but it might be worth doing though I can't see all valves being that tight.

How close to the bottom of the fuel tank are you? Can you get a few gallons locally somewhere just to be sure your not sucking air? Maybe you just happened to stop for the night moments before running out of fuel?!?

Have you checked to see if the filter is still full of diesel? Pump the priming pump a few times to build up pressure then slightly loosen the bleeder and see if you get air or fuel. If you get air I'd bet a few gallons in the tank and bleed the system again and you'll be running.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Is there any fresh diesel available?

If it was me and I had been through all of this stuff I'd disconnect the fuel pickup line at the injection pump and the return line from the injectors. I'd get a clean glass jar, maybe a quart or so and fill it with fresh diesel or K1. You can use SeaFoam or a similar product in place of the diesel if you happen to have some with you. The idea is to rule out bad fuel in the tank and/or bad plumbing from the tank to the injection pump.

Have you run any biodiesel on this trip?