So I think the Michelin Defender is the perfect all-terrain tire... (For most of us) (8 Viewers)

[kty]

Still don't know why folks don't go 275/70

What's the case for these on a stock 200 over the 285/65/18? I'm shopping right now. Thanks!

 

[barcelona4x4]

I just replaced my Nitto RG 275/70/18's with the Defenders m/s2. They are the same size but does feel slightly taller which is causing some minor rub at full lock. They are buttery smooth and extremely quiet compared to the Nittos (35k miles). I'm also seeing an additional 2mpg gain despite both sets being E-rated with similar weight.

 

[willstroo]

I just replaced my Nitto RG 275/70/18's with the Defenders m/s2. They are the same size but does feel slightly taller which is causing some minor rub at full lock. They are buttery smooth and extremely quiet compared to the Nittos (35k miles). I'm also seeing an additional 2mpg gain despite both sets being E-rated with similar weight.

View attachment 3755570

These look great!

Shame we can’t get these tyres in Australia.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Wow these tires are so much quieter than the KO2s they replaced, now I can hear every little air whistle and squeak.

Folks always end up comparing a set of worn-out tires to a set of new tires and being amazed at the quietness of the new set. Understandable, but not at all the right way to go about it.

Compare a new set of KO2s (in the same size and load rating) to these new tires and I bet they'll be very close. I ran several sets of KO2s on my previous truck and they were always very, very quiet when new. As tires age, they all get louder.

What is the general opinion on this thread of the relative merits of the XL version of this tire versus the LT-E load version? I like the extra tread depth and what I assume is extra rubber in the tire of the LT, but at that weight, I begin to think that I might as well run a KO3 or equivalent. Or, in other words, like the benefits of the XL version of this tire really hit the sweet spot. Opinions?

I can't speak to the Defender as I'm not using it, but my Falken AT3W set is P-rated, and I've had it for about 5-5.5 years now. I tow regularly, drive forest service roads quite often, and even ran them for a full winter one year. Zero issues, zero cuts. I did pick up a nail one time, but that's hardly a reflection of the tire. (Plugged it on the side of the road, and have been using that same tire for the ~4 years since with no problems.)

Most people have zero practical reason to be using even C-rated tires, much less E-rated. It's all part of the bigger-is-better and "tougher sidewalls" fantasies. These ratings are called LOAD ratings for a reason - that's the primary difference between them. If you're driving a one-ton truck with an 8ft bed full of gravel, then you'll need that extra load rating on the tires. If you're taking a Tacoma to Starbucks, then buying those tires makes you a pretty big dummy.

 

[MRego]

These ratings are called LOAD ratings for a reason - that's the primary difference between them.

I am no specialist, but every discussion I have seen here on ratings also involve sidewall strength/construction, being the E rated tires the strongest (or one of the). I much prefer having a stronger sidewall construction when driving through zagged rocks in the middle of Death Valley, for example. Even if I am not carrying a ton of additional weight on my cruiser.

 

[MRego]

What's the case for these on a stock 200 over the 285/65/18? I'm shopping right now. Thanks!

IMO, too "Skinny" for the wide body of the 200 and not that much of a difference to the 285s/65s in terms of height.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I am no specialist, but every discussion I have seen here on ratings also involve sidewall strength/construction, being the E rated tires the strongest (or one of the). I much prefer having a stronger sidewall construction when driving through zagged rocks in the middle of Death Valley, for example. Even if I am not carrying a ton of additional weight on my cruiser.

That used to be the case in tire construction decades ago. As far as I'm aware that is no longer true for modern tires, but it still gets constantly repeated online, usually backed with anecdotal stories that prove nothing.

Heavier-rated tires will have a sidewall capable of carrying more load; no argument there. But claiming that this automatically makes the sidewall "stronger" for off-roading purposes is simply wrong. There are a ton of factors that play a role, and such arguments need to be backed by literal laboratory-based, back to back comparisons.

 

[M1911]

Folks always end up comparing a set of worn-out tires to a set of new tires and being amazed at the quietness of the new set. Understandable, but not at all the right way to go about it.

Compare a new set of KO2s (in the same size and load rating) to these new tires and I bet they'll be very close. I ran several sets of KO2s on my previous truck and they were always very, very quiet when new. As tires age, they all get louder.

New K02s are not in any way as quiet as a new set of Defenders. I've had both. K02s noise is reasonable for an all terrain tire but they simply can't compete with a highway tire when it comes to noise. And that's to be expected.

 

[bloc]

That used to be the case in tire construction decades ago. As far as I'm aware that is no longer true for modern tires, but it still gets constantly repeated online, usually backed with anecdotal stories that prove nothing.

Heavier-rated tires will have a sidewall capable of carrying more load; no argument there. But claiming that this automatically makes the sidewall "stronger" for off-roading purposes is simply wrong. There are a ton of factors that play a role, and such arguments need to be backed by literal laboratory-based, back to back comparisons.

The extra structure in an E-load tire has more to do with surviving the higher inflation pressures required to support the increased load. You are right, this doesn't necessarily translate to a tougher sidewall.

 

[Yossarian]

One step closer.

 

[Pskhaat]

What's the case for these on a stock 200 over the 285/65/18? I'm shopping right now. Thanks!

Thinner just a bit and a bit taller. Both of those attributes make a better performance tire.

 

[Yossarian]

View attachment 3756438
Thinner just a bit and a bit taller. Both of those attributes make a better performance tire.

Define "better performance", because this has been covered, over and over.

Others have, but personally, that wouldn't my choice.

Increasing tire diameter brings a larger and longer contact patch which buys additional footprint, floatation, and generally increased traction all around.
A larger diameter but narrower tire trades a contact patch to not necessarily be larger, but longer and narrower. This biases traction in the longitudinal direction, in trade for less lateral traction.

My preference would be to keep at least factory width when increasing diameter, to gain performance everywhere, rather than trade cornering traction for forward traction.

Nuff said.

 

[Markuson]

I wanted to talk about function over form and my opinions on why I think the Michelin Defender LTX is one of the best "all-terrain" tires out these for a majority of 4wd enthusiast/Overlanders...

Before I begin let me cite a few sources on why I have these opinions.

Sources/References
- My use (I have over 10k miles on the Defenders and have wheeled them in different terrain, I will touch on below.)
- Perfect off-highway tire = LTX? What? - https://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/perfect-off-highway-tire-ltx-what.206567/ - (This is the thread that really turned me onto this)
- 400,000 Miles - https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/400-000-miles.404359/ (Another great thread on real world use)
- Watch any Deadliest roads video from this channel - Free Documentary - https://www.youtube.com/@FreeDocumentary


The Michelin Defender LTX
View attachment 3393883

Pictured above is my 2011 LX570 and about a year ago I ditched my Falken Wildpeaks (due to them being way to heavy and generating too much road noise) and set out to find the lightest wheel and tire setup for my 200 series.

I came across the Michelin Defender LTX M/S which came in a tad under 54lbs a tire 285/70/17 (32.8 inches) (E load)

My first thought was "ew street tires" but then I remembered my friend ran these on his 2wd 3rd Gen 4Runner
He took that truck everywhere and never got stuck plus riding in the truck was a dream.

I then stumbled upon the links above and here we are today. I have logged about 10k miles on these tires and have taken them all over California in rain, snow, rocks, dirt, sand, and even some mud. They ride quiet, balance easily, wear slowly, and most importantly have tackled pretty much everything I have threw at them. From trails all over the Eastern Sierras to Anza Borrego these were slid against rocks, in deep soft sand, and driven on rain, ice, and snow. I have aired them down to as low as 12 PSI and never had an issue. When aired down they do burp occasionally. I should note I did gash the sidewall on Little John Bull in Big Bear, CA. The tire still held air though the cords were showing. I drove it back home and swapped in my spare. We do not know if I hit a steel fence post that feel or if it was a rock...

Sure they look plain and boring but the performance you get from them especially TO the trail is well worth it. I spend most of my time on the highway driving to and from work and driving to and from the destinations we all enjoy. I would assume most of us also spend lots of time on the highway which driving to the places we love to explore which is why I think these are the perfect all-terrain tires. With the amount of time we spend of the highway we should consider it a terrain as well.

These tires will get you to your destination smoothly and truly quietly and are also tough enough to hit the trails and get you back home. Now, I doubt these tires will do great in deep mud... but any tire sucks in mud, even mud-terrains. In my opinion these tires are perfect tire for what most of us use our vehicles for, Weekend trips with the occasional backcountry discovery route here and there.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying there is any place for a true all-terrain tire I am just saying choose the tire that suits what you do or plan to do.

Obviously these Defenders are not for everyone, those who rock-crawl and hit deep mud bogs often will need an aggressive tire to suit their needs, but I think for the casual Overlander you will be pleasantly surprised by these tires.

TL;DR

The Michelin Defender LTX is a fantastic all terrain tire that performs well in most situations with the exceptions of deep mud and hardcore rock crawling. This tire will get you to your destination quietly and smoothly and is tough enough to take you back home. Do not underestimate it looks.

Pros
- Excellent tread wear and tread life
- Smooth and quiet on the highway and off-road
- Light
- Extremely durable for a "street tire"

Cons
- Limited sizing, best to be had in an 18 inch as it can go up to a 34 inch size
- High cost of entry compared to other tires, even all-terrains
- Does not look cool for your cars and coffee events
View attachment 3393884
View attachment 3393885

Bottom 2 are photos from the 400,000 mile Taco thread
View attachment 3393886View attachment 3393887

I wonder how tough the sidewalls are.
My Ridge Grapplers suffer monster beating in the rocks (not big boulders…I mean sharp-edged, loose rocks or bladed, partially-buried rocks).

For me, side-wall toughness is an absolute necessity. For sand, or moab slick-rock, I agree that minimal tread is fine. Heck, you could to most of moab’s “big-ticket” trails with NO tread…just like rock-climbing shoes are tread-less (assuming zero mud).

 

[MRego]

Define "better performance", because this has been covered, over and over.



Nuff said.

Ditto and ditto.

 

[MRego]

One step closer.

View attachment 3756418

Looking good. Make sure to show us a side pic once installed to check increased wall. These could have probably been the OEM choice (in lieu of those awful Dunlops) if they existed in this size back then.

 

[Pskhaat]

Define "better performance", because this has been covered
Nuff said.

Respectfully, I heartedly disagree. So I think the Michelin Defender is the perfect all-terrain tire... (For most of us) - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/so-i-think-the-michelin-defender-is-the-perfect-all-terrain-tire-for-most-of-us.1319040/page-19#post-15306573

If this helps, in Japan, the 200 (CBA-URJ202W) had 275 as a width.

 

[tincan45]

I wonder how tough the sidewalls are.
My Ridge Grapplers suffer monster beating in the rocks (not big boulders…I mean sharp-edged, loose rocks or bladed, partially-buried rocks).

For me, side-wall toughness is an absolute necessity. For sand, or moab slick-rock, I agree that minimal tread is fine. Heck, you could to most of moab’s “big-ticket” trails with NO tread…just like rock-climbing shoes are tread-less (assuming zero mud).

This is anecdotal but I've been running the same trails with guys running all the usual ko2/ko3/nitto and I don't have a single chunk scratch or tear in my sidewalls. I wondered on the back side of Imogene with all the sharp rocks how things would hold up and I have been pleasantly surprised. A few on the same trail noticed some chunking in ko3/k02 if I recall correctly. I ran them all at around 14 psi so there was plenty of sidewall exposure.

 

[JohnPW]

This is anecdotal but I've been running the same trails with guys running all the usual ko2/ko3/nitto and I don't have a single chunk scratch or tear in my sidewalls. I wondered on the back side of Imogene with all the sharp rocks how things would hold up and I have been pleasantly surprised. A few on the same trail noticed some chunking in ko3/k02 if I recall correctly. I ran them all at around 14 psi so there was plenty of sidewall exposure.

What size and load rating are you using?

 

[tincan45]

What size and load rating are you using?

E load - 285/70/17

 

[Markuson]

This is anecdotal but I've been running the same trails with guys running all the usual ko2/ko3/nitto and I don't have a single chunk scratch or tear in my sidewalls. I wondered on the back side of Imogene with all the sharp rocks how things would hold up and I have been pleasantly surprised. A few on the same trail noticed some chunking in ko3/k02 if I recall correctly. I ran them all at around 14 psi so there was plenty of sidewall exposure.

Thanks for that report. Sounds lime their sidewalls are tough indeed. 14psi would certainly give the sidewalls a test in the rocks.