Snorkel observations over the stock setup with a SC

[Romer]

Note: This thread is a split out of a discussion on snorkels with the Non Value added removed



From Safaris Site FYI


The Safari SS81-HF snorkel is tough and stylish and has been designed to deliver a huge volume of the coolest and cleanest air possible into the stock air cleaner assembly of the Lexus LX450 / 80 Series Land Cruiser.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]

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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]With the variety of engine options available in the 80 Series, Safari took the decision to design a new snorkel system that surpassed the style and performance of the legendary SS80-HF snorkel system previously manufactured for the 80 Series Land Cruiser. 80 Series Land Cruiser owners can now enjoy the benefits that are delivered by a snorkel system that not only exceeds the air flow requirements of each engine configuration available throughout the life of the 80 Series, but also one that satisfies the huge mass air flow demands of the Safari Intercooler enhanced Multivalve Turbo Diesel as well as the powerful Safari Turbocharged gasoline engine system.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Close attention to the internal cross sectional profile and area, air velocity and flow path through each and every point along the entire length of the snorkel system ensures that the greatest air flow is achieved. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]This of course also applies to components that are not visible. For example in order to achieve the optimum air flow within the inner guard area of the Land Cruiser, a special molded smooth bore tough wall hose was engineered to closely couple the snorkel body to the standard air intake assembly. The result is maximum engine performance and the best possible fuel economy.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Huge air flow is but one aspect of the ultimate in snorkel design. The Safari air ram

is designed to perform two very important roles. The most obvious is to funnel cool clean air into the snorkel body - but just as importantly, the Safari air ram acts as a highly efficient water separator to remove rain water from the incoming air stream - thus ensuring safe engine operation through even the most torrential tropical storms.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]In addition, the detachable Safari air ram can be rotated to any position. This means great peace of mind for those who plan to travel in cold or high altitude conditions where heavy snow falls are anticipated. By rotating the air ram to face away from the prevailing wind/direction of motion, the air ram delivers additional protection from the choking effects of snow build-up inside the air intake. [/FONT]

 

[cruiserdan]

There is no question in my mind regarding the increased available intake air mass for a snorkel-equipped 80 (at least a Safari snorkel, as opposed to a home-brew of sorts) versus a stock intake.

I have taken the goofy looking silencer out of the fender and examined it. I have compared it's size to the snork. I have measured air temps inside the cavity between the apron and the fender.

The snork moves more air, cooler air, cleaner air and drier air (when we go for a swim..) than does the OEM setup.

Is it better than some sort of direct feed with fewer bends than it has?
Nope.

Is it better than a stock setup? Yep.

Does it make loads of dumfounded people stare at it?

YOU BET! And that alone is worth it.........

 

[Grench]

OK, now that we have a snorkel thread.

Who makes the best one? ARB, Safari or other?

How nervous were you when you got out the hole saw and lined it up with your shiny fender?

What about cyclonic air cleaners for the topper in case we don't want to bother with 'ram air' at normal human speeds? Which snorkel do they fit?

 

[cruiser88]

I must ask this and yes my experience only comes from a 3fe, however I know mine gets cleaner air through the snorkel but when discussing MORE air to your motor intake whatever your mass airflow does not open up anymore than normal to let this cleaner/more air in ,correct? Or are you guys tuning the mass air flow senser? Are you getting more horsepower without tuning your maf to let more air in?

 

[landtank]

I must ask this and yes my experience only comes from a 3fe, however I know mine gets cleaner air through the snorkel but when discussing MORE air to your motor intake whatever your mass airflow does not open up anymore than normal to let this cleaner/more air in ,correct? Or are you guys tuning the mass air flow senser? Are you getting more horsepower without tuning your maf to let more air in?

You need to think about engines as air pumps. Any pump's performance, regardless of it's type, will be influenced by restrictions in the intake or exhaust. So lessoning those restrictions will allow the pump to work more efficiently. So a less restrictive intake would allow more air to be pumped through.

In an engine's case there is also the factor of air density. This correlates to the temperature of the air. The colder the air the more dense it is and the more fuel that needs to be added to get the correct mixture. The denser/fuel mixture creates a bigger charge in the cylinder creating more HP.

From Romer's testing we know that the Snorkel provides a drop in air temperature. This means that the air is definitely more dense.

So it's hard to say where the performance gains are coming from. It's possible that the snorkel is restricting the flow some but the increase in air density is more than making up the difference.

So the answer to your AFM question is: who knows. It could be seeing less flow, the same flow or more flow. But in the end there is a performance increase.

 

[cruiser88]

You need to think about engines as air pumps. Any pump's performance, regardless of it's type, will be influenced by restrictions in the intake or exhaust. So lessoning those restrictions will allow the pump to work more efficiently. So a less restrictive intake would allow more air to be pumped through.

In an engine's case there is also the factor of air density. This correlates to the temperature of the air. The colder the air the more dense it is and the more fuel that needs to be added to get the correct mixture. The denser/fuel mixture creates a bigger charge in the cylinder creating more HP.

From Romer's testing we know that the Snorkel provides a drop in air temperature. This means that the air is definitely more dense.

So it's hard to say where the performance gains are coming from. It's possible that the snorkel is restricting the flow some but the increase in air density is more than making up the difference.

So the answer to your AFM question is: who knows. It could be seeing less flow, the same flow or more flow. But in the end there is a performance increase.

Got yea

 

[Tennessee80]

this might be considered a mild hijack, but are snorkels made shorter than the usual ones you see, or would that neutralize the point of the snorkel itself. Lower profile to me would be better, but it might affect something or someone would be doing it. Excuse the hijack, but I feel like this thread has become hot, and changing directions might be a mild breath of fresh air!

 

[Grench]

this might be considered a mild hijack, but are snorkels made shorter than the usual ones you see, or would that neutralize the point of the snorkel itself. Lower profile to me would be better, but it might affect something or someone would be doing it. Excuse the hijack, but I feel like this thread has become hot, and changing directions might be a mild breath of fresh air!

I've been thinking about that too. If I do a snorkel, it has to be flush with the roof line at it's highest point. Otherwise I won't fit in the garage.

So, what are the heights on the different snorkel options? Who has pictures of which kinds to share?

Are ARB and Safari the only ones making them?

 

[landtank]

a local guy here in MA got a factory one from somewhere. I haven't seen it yet so I don't know how it compares to the Safari one. I'd bet it is more expensive.

 

[Romer]

If you have a stock roof rack, the Safari top sits below that in vehicle height.

When I was in Australia for a month in Alice Springs. All the Landcruisers came new with snorkels as factory installed so this is probably what they look like

A board member from Oz said "If it doesn't have a snorkel on it, then it's a shopping trolly"

 

[GreatLakesWaterjet]

As Ken said, these are not designed to be an "ultimate ram air" setup. This has been blown way out of proportion. Who gives a $hit about the ram air effect of a snorkel. Thats not what it's designed for. What do you think you would gain? 0.00596874 hp? Just the aerodynamic drag it will produce will counter act the gains you may see in power. Face it. These are big, heavy 4wd trucks, not race cars. I think folks just want to know if the factory part is availible and where to get it as an option to the Safari. Myself, I'm building my own and I will not test it for gas flow or intake effect. The only gas flow I worry about is from the 8 beers and 2 burritos last night. Now Sumotoy, go build an air induction system to impress us. And Ken, you are not going anywhere!

 

[Darwood]

What model is the bottom white one?

2007 70 Series Troopy! Also known as what I dream of.

 

[Gumby]

I don't want to discount Ken's data, but CDan's and other's seat of the pants dyno numbers are kinda suspect.

I have students put on louder intake pipes all the time and claim horsepower increases. It's just more intake roar. Noise does not equal power.

Not saying it doesn't make a difference with the snorkel, just saying anecdotes, even many of them are not data.

 

[cruiserdan]

I don't want to discount Ken's data, but CDan's seat of the pants dyno numbers are kinda suspect.

I talk out of my finely-calibrated arse all the time............

 

[Romer]

I have been going back through my records and the intake temps are as stated.

Before the snorkel, the intake temp after the engine was warmed up averaged between 135 deg F and 150 deg F over a days observation. I took readings on the way home from work driving 30MPH and the temp was 135 deg F.

The next day with the snorkel in almost the same 95+ deg day I read between 98 to 115 deg F. The 115 deg F was taken driving 30 mph at the same spot I read 135 the day before. No boosting of the engine had taken place prior to then. Getting on the highway and getting up to 60MPH I saw a 98 deg Intake temp where the day before it was about 142 deg F.

The boost pressure increase is real. However, sine I put the modified MAF on the day after I put the snorkel on I can't tell If I took the boost measurement before or after the MAF as it was the same day.

So the only thing I can say for certain is the snorkel clearly lowers intake temp

And with a snorkel AND the modified MAF, boost increases to my supercharger. Possibly with just the snorkel, but not for sure.

I still believe that the snorkel provides more airflow over stock so I decided to pull out the old stock assembly and compare it and provide some data rather than just theoretical guessing having not examined the differences.

Picture 1 below shows the stock assembly. Remember this is tucked up inside the fender between the fender well and the engine compartment. There is no direct (Straight at the mouth) airflow input into this. It just takes what air is available INSIDE the fender into the 4x3" opening and through the 3" diameter pipe. There is this strange baffle on the front end that allows some air to enter. My guess is this is for debris to hit. The air enters the air can via a small round input into the engine bay. This round input measures 3.5" and goes inside the air can inlet.

The snorkel is in direct air into a 6x4 inch opening through a 4" diameter tube with a direct input into a 4" hose that mates to the outside lip of the air can


So lets summarize the differences:
Air Input:
Snorkel 6x4" opening exposed to direct air. Air flow into the entrance increases as driving speed increases.
Stock 4x3" opening inside the fender that is sheltered for the most part from airflow changes during movement. Probably some but like standing in a shelter.

Input pipe: This would seem to be a factor in how the snorkel has a direct feed into the aircan where the stock setup pipes into the baffle and "ricochets into the air can via a smaller pipe.

Snorkel - 4" diameter pipe at it's smallest and 5" diameter at some spots. 54" in length. Internal surface is smooth and polished. 3 bends 1 at input, one at fender and one into air can.

Stock - 14" input into air can in 3" pipe. Direct flow would go straight into baffle. Flow into air can is like the bottom of the T. Surface inside is not as smooth.

Air Can input:
Snorkel - 4" rubber pipe that fits over the outside lip of the air can.

Stock - Plastic asembly 3.5" in diameter that fits inside the lip of the aircan.


Picture 1 is the stock assembly in the orientation it would sit inside the fender. Note the baffle assembly on the right and that the input into the air can is more of a "T"

Picture 2 shows the inputs of the snorkel vs the stock setup (Measurements above)

 

[Romer]

Picture 1 shows the stock input to the air can (description above)

Picture 2 shows the snorkel input to the aircan

 

[Romer]

There are several observations I make here

The input of the snorkel will get much higher input flow of air once moving

The input of the snorkel is much larger than the stock input allowing more air to enter the pipe

The Snorkel has a longer run than the stock setup

The Snorkel has a direct run (through bends) into the air can in a 4" pipe (at the min). Stock runs through a 3" pipe directly into the baffle and via a T flows into the air can.

Consider also that my OBD II measurements showed very little change in temp in the stock setup when moving. Whereas the snorkel showed greater variation oif temperature as movement increased. To me this means that the movement increased the airflow in the snorkel setup and had very little effect on the stock setup. my Opinion is this directly relates to airflow, but thats my opinion.


So, the snorkel has a larger opening, a larger pipe a direct run into the air can and is more exposed to fresh air and the impacts of movement on the input air flow.

 

[Romer]

I should also note that the stock setup is not a sealed system. There are airgaps at the baffle and at the air can.

The snorkel is a sealed system from the input into the aircan.

 

[landtank]

I don't want to discount Ken's data, but CDan's and other's seat of the pants dyno numbers are kinda suspect.

OK, so I'm an Irishman and after a few hours in the summer sun I'm sporting 4" of rigid black pipe and it went to my head.

Let me live the dream already.

 

[elmariachi]

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this. Once upon a time I had a supercharged, snorkeled '97 80. (Then Kaderabek stole it from me.) But in the 4 years that I owned it, I enjoyed backing out of the driveway in the mornings and hauling ass down my street trying to see how much boost I could get in the cool morning air. No matter how cool the outside temps (Dallas, TX is about 1220' AMSL) , I could never get above 7- 7.5 psi boost. Then I installed the snorkel. After installing it, I could get it surpass 8 psi easy, time after time, cold or warm mornings. No charts, no readings, no comparisons to note.