Smoking front wheel, this looks bad. Advice please!

[cruiser enthuiser]

Gents,

I'm in need of advice and guidance.

I love Land Cruisers but I'm no mechanic. Our beloved 80, my wife's DD, has just recently clocked over 200k. Last weekend I threw on some new brake pads after noticing some grinding noise up front. They were pretty worn but it seemed no big deal once they were replaced. However, when my wife came home yesterday she said the front drivers wheel was smoking. Upon inspection I noticed grease on the wheel. I jacked it up and checked for play. With hands at the 12 and 6 o'clock position I would describe the amount of play as "very significant". The inside of the wheel is also covered in grease. The rotor looks like it got very hot and it's got some bad scoring.

My questions:
1. Was this caused by a seized rotor? How do I tell if it's seized? (probably a dumb question, I know)
2. Are my wheel bearings shot?
3. What else is shot and needs to be replaced?

I've read through the FAQ axle service and am a little intimidated by the whole axle service procedure but I know it's long overdue. Before I try and tear into this I'm wondering what is absolutely necessary to do to get safely back on the road and conversely I'm wondering what a responsible four banana Land Cruiser owner would do in my position?

I've attached some pics for reference.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

-Ed

 

[Rwhat]

How do the knuckle balls look? Looks like your a axle seal is leaking.

Do you have pics of the inside of the wheel where the steering arms are?

 

[ajax1]

sounds like your seals are done, leaking grease out the back? grinding noise could been the wheel bearing or birf going out, did the sound stop when you changed the pads? i would check the caliper and your seals, you can open up the front knuckle and check the grease its the square bolt on top 10mm wrench i believe, did you tighten up your wheel bearings maybe loose? but i would say smoke from the grease getting on the caliper i or caliper is seized< if you say yyour a 4bannana guy i would rebuild the front axle...... u can do it!

 

[Rwhat]

Smoke is most likely coming from the grease/oil on hot rotor.

 

[jynx]

Can you post some pictures of the back of the brake rotor/ knuckle hub area. When you replaced the rotors and pads, did you notice the play that you mentioned above?

Also, what did the bearings look like when you pulled the hubs and did you make sure you greased them back up and set everything back up when it went back together?

Agreed that the grease could be from the knuckle balls and not the wheel bearings.

 

[timer00]

sounds like your seals are done, leaking grease out the back? grinding noise could been the wheel bearing or birf going out, did the sound stop when you changed the pads? i would check the caliper and your seals, you can open up the front knuckle and check the grease its the square bolt on top 10mm wrench i believe, did you tighten up your wheel bearings maybe loose? but i would say smoke from the grease getting on the caliper i or caliper is seized< if you say yyour a 4bannana guy i would rebuild the front axle...... u can do it!

Don't need to be a 4 banana for the front axle rebuild
I was a one back then and did mine mostly time consuming

On the issue at hand when my seals really went and I had to rebuild it was slinging green oily stuff all over the inside of the rim and tire so my bet is on that.. I don't think you mention changing the bearings or repacking them though it sounds like those may be shot at least on the one side not sure if both sides are loose at 12 and 6 oclock

Basically you would be fixing all that at once in a front end rebuild.

 

[packetstormin]

Definitely need to get need new wheel bearings...

 

[sdbrassfield]

A stuck caliper could have been the cause of this and smoked/heated up the rotors/grease and ruined your bearings, etc... Was the truck pulling to that side on braking before this happened. You had just changed pads and in doing so "played" w the calipers. I have seen this happen many times w/ stuck calipers. Make sure you check them out well before slapping them back on.

 

[krzyabncanuck]

If you look closely at the outer part of the rotor you can see where the brake caliper was grinding on it by the wear marks. Just worked on a rig with the same thing, previous place forgot to lock the tabs and the wheel bearings were gone .

 

[krzyabncanuck]

And check out the inside of the caliper for wear marks. It will / should still be in good condition though.

 

[Mark Grant]

Just the did front axle on the '85 Hilux. Pretty much the same just smaller. Inner axle seal was torn on the drivers side. That lets the gear oil from the diff into the knuckle and then thins out the grease so it'll go everywhere! The wheel bearings, knuckle rebuild, and seals took about 4 hours total. If you don't do the knuckle bearings it should only take 2-3 hours.

You'd be nuts to keep driving it like it is IMO. It's dangerous and not safe for you or the others you'd be putting on jeopardy.

 

[ToddD]

If your sexy new pads get that grease on them you'll need to replace them as well.
I'm about to do the same job on my rig. It's not pissing out like yours but my knuckles are filthy and I have some bearing play as well.
That rotor should be inspected / measured while you have everything apart. If it can be turned, I'd leave it at that, if not replace it.

 

[hawaiicruz]

Looks like two unrelated problems to me, loose/bad? wheel bearings, and worn brakes. Was the rotor scored before you put the pads on. I'm guessing that grease is coming from the wheel bearings, not the birf

 

[kirkm76]

Mine did the exact thing. Seals were toast. The brakes were fine but there was enough grease and heat to make them smoke when I got home from a trip. Axle service fixed it right up.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

Thanks for all the responses guys!

When you replaced the rotors and pads, did you notice the play that you mentioned above?

Also, what did the bearings look like when you pulled the hubs and did you make sure you greased them back up and set everything back up when it went back together?

I didn't pull the hub. Rotors were in great shape when I replaced the pads so I left it at that.

Was the truck pulling to that side on braking before this happened.

I test drove after doing the brake pads and it was not pulling that I noticed. My wife did not notice pulling either.

You'd be nuts to keep driving it like it is IMO. It's dangerous and not safe for you or the others you'd be putting on jeopardy.

Agreed! I have no intention of letting anyone drive it until it is satisfactorily repaired.



I'm adding a picture of the back of the knuckle/rotor as requested. Right now I'm leaning towards the full front axle service since it seems several different components of the axle may have been compromised. Unfortunately, the timing on this sucks for me as I'm slammed at work and putting in long hours and already in the middle of two major projects at home. Guess that's always how it goes, eh?

Do I understand correctly that CDan sells a front axle service package? Could anyone who has purchased this package tell me what it cost?

Thanks again.

-Ed

 

[timer00]

Ouch, that looks like my front axle before I did my service all that thick gunk on there. The package from Cdan not sure but I paid $195 from cruiseroutfitters.com for the knuckle rebuild package with new Koyo wheel bearings and trunion bearings along with all the other usual stuff that comes in the package to rebuild the front. sleeoffroad.com also now has a knuckle rebuild pacakge and of course cdan or beno can sell you theres too.

Obviously a few choices though cdan/beno might be the cheapest one of them if you ask for the mud discount

 

[OGBeno]

Obviously a few choices though cdan/beno might be the cheapest one of them if you ask for the mud discount

Actually we are not the cheapest...in fact our prices cannot compete with the aftermarket, hence "aftermarket."

Ours are OEM which is different than aftermarket....though for our wheel bearings we use a cheaper than OEM Koyo source....basically if you buy OEM toyota wheel bearings you are paying a premium on a red box...



All of our gaskets and seals are OEM Toyota, from the original suppliers. Trunion bearings are OEM Koyo as well.

I do not know where the aftermarket seals and gaskets come from. I know for a fact not Japan.

 

[jynx]

K I thought you did rotors too. So all you did was replace the pads, correct? So looking at the back of the knuckle I would say you are due a service and that is likely the source of your grease, but I don't think that is the source of your smoking.

Given the significant play that you mention, I would say that the bearings are loose. If this is a bad time, you could pic up a drive flange gasket and just remove the flange and give the nuts a check to see if they are loose. Maybe undo the caliper and pull the hub to see if you can get the outer bearing out for a check, pack the poo out of it with new grease, grease it up and put it back together and make sure things are good and tight and then try and buy yourself some time before the full front end work can commence.

If things are bad bad, then I would not recommend driving on it, but if you can repack things and adjust the bearings to buy you some time, it could be worth a couple hours to you.

I would also check the grease in the knuckle since it would appear a good amount has relocated on you.

Good luck.

 

[timer00]

Actually we are not the cheapest...in fact our prices cannot compete with the aftermarket, hence "aftermarket."

Ours are OEM which is different than aftermarket....though for our wheel bearings we use a cheaper than OEM Koyo source....basically if you buy OEM toyota wheel bearings you are paying a premium on a red box...



All of our gaskets and seals are OEM Toyota, from the original suppliers. Trunion bearings are OEM Koyo as well.

I do not know where the aftermarket seals and gaskets come from. I know for a fact not Japan.

The cruiser outfitter kit was great with the Koyo bearings etc. Though I order all OEM parts for other things through American now.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I'll be the contrarian here. I say your new thick pads caused some dragging and heat and if you find bright fresh wear on the caliper then it was not well centered when you replaced the pads and dragged on the rotor. Likely the caliper pistons have a ring of grundge that was pushed in with the new pads and now they're not retracting fully. That may go away with time, or not.

Anyhow, I see lines from plenty of grease in your knuckle housings and would suggest a hot rotor/hub caused normal presence of grease to fling off.

You should remove the 6 drive plate nuts/conical washers (read the FAQ to avoid losing them and they torque on with INCH pounds) and see if the wheel bearing nuts need a gentle tweak tighter to remove slack if you don't have time to repack the front end for a month. If they're properly tight, then your trunion/knuckle bearings (the Koyos Beno mentioned) are likely the source of slack. That will be tended to in a front axle repack/rebuild.

As a precaution, see those 4 nuts on the bottom of the knuckle in the last picture you posted? Those sometimes loosen. So clean them off and take a wrench to them to be sure THAT is not the source of your slack. Very dangerous and worth doing FIRST.

Finally, your jack stand looks like it may have been resting on the steering limiter bracket. Don't do that again - unstable. Be sure the axle housing is fully nested with pressure in the saddle of your jack stand. OK? Heh.

DougM