Slip Indicator issue while on highway

[haas]

sounds a LOT like the bushings. I thought my steering was tight until I jacked up the front of the LX and looked at the steering rack while the wife rocked the steering wheel back n forth. The rack had about 1/2" movement, either direction, inside the horse shoe bushing on the passenger side.

 

[Beazer76]

At the risk of beating a dead horse here....I have a 2000 LC that has 260K. I bought it off a friend in Texas, with a stack of M&R records. He let me know when I bought it that the Slip Indicator Light (car with skid marks) would come on randomly. Over the past few months, since bringing it back to CO, I've noticed a pattern. Like others have stated, it comes on when making sweeping curves over 30mph. The one thing mine does that I believe is different form most is that when the light and beeping occurs, nothing else happens. No sudden braking, or wheels locking up. So mine isn't a safety issue, just annoying as hell. I've cleaned all the ABS speed sensors, but that doesn't seem to make a difference. I believe the suspension is original. Tires are in good condition. The only leak is a small one at the top of the center diff (it only leaks when at higher speeds). There is also noticable slack in the steering wheel, but not terrible. I've looked at the tie rods and ball joints, and they seem snug.

I'm wondering, based on what I've read here, if I just need to go through all the bushings in the suspension and steering and replace as many as I can.

Any thoughts?

 

[ton504]

Did you just look at the tie rods or actually checked for play?

I experienced it once and found my inner tie rods with crazy amount of play. Fixed it about a month ago and hasn't happened since...

 

[Beazer76]

Did you just look at the tie rods or actually checked for play?

I experienced it once and found my inner tie rods with crazy amount of play. Fixed it about a month ago and hasn't happened since...

I actually checked for play with it lifted on jack stands by doing the old push back forth on the wheels...but I'm going to double check now that you mentioned that it seems to have fixed yours.

 

[Greenbean]

Steering rack bushings?

Of the two smaller ones on the drivers side one of mine was pretty much gone. I got the wife to steering it with me under the front while tires were firm on the ground. Was shocked to see the rack shifting over almost an inch when transitioning from right to left. The rack was slipping back and forth though the large bushing. And almost twisting in a way on the driver side.

The larger one was fine.

Mine seemed to degrade due to a fluid slowly dripping into/on it.

I returned the rubber set and am waiting on some poly Whiteline replacements from Amazon.
I just didn't want to try the smaller rubber ones and felt led to just put poly in.

I got the exact same symptoms though about three times on a two hour trip. First two times just a beeping and the slip indicator light flashing. All at freeway speeds and the third time cruise was on at about 65ish I think and into a sweeping left curve.

Third time was ABS trying to "save" me and me really getting worried and trying to slow and get to the side of the road.
It tried to modulate the right front wheel then the left rear. Good Lord it happened so quick it scared the crap out of me.

Odd thing is it's got to be in the steering, because you would think an ABS issue would throw a code with a component failure and keep it on until cleared right?


I'll report back as soon as I get them installed and get to drive it again.

PS: I have 436K though. YMMV, Lol...

 

[2001LC]

How long did it take you to get upper 1/2 of new poly bushing in?
Even after my third set in a row I struggled with the upper halves PITA.

Some thoughts:

Whereas steering rack slop can contribute, it will not normal cause ABS to activate on it's own. I say this because just steering like a drunken sailor won't set off ABS (well maybe if very drunk). Worn out rack bushing feels like driving in gusty wind conditions, sloppy wondering. But add that slop into the equation with other front end issues, and certainly can be contributor.

Excessive loose wheel bearings may allow wheel hub to move not only in and out on spindle, but wobble or become cockeyed. ABS may reads this wobble as different wheel speed. Slop or driving on curvy road can put pressure on wheel hub which becomes cockeyed.

Base lining front end to factory spec is always a good idea, especially if having ABS issue with no code.

1. Inspect all bushing: sway, UCA, LCA.
2. Inspect all ball joints / TRE.
3. Inspect all seal: front drive shafts, steering knuckle & wheel hub.
4. Inspect wheel bearing preload & hub flange snap ring gap. **** This is almost always set up wrong (loose)
5. Inspect wheel ABS speed sensor & ABS speed sensor rotor.
6. Inspect hub flange including cone washers.
7. Inspect front drive shafts CV's & axle's.

03+ set zero point calibration. Also 03+ VGRS Steering gear actuator had issues "Steering Snap ring"

 

[Greenbean]

I haven't gotten them yet, shpuld be here Monday though.

But here's the odd thing, around the same time that I had the alarm beeping at me my cruise control was set, the first time and I was traveling over 70mph on I-85 in a straight line and all the sudden it's just beeping away and I'm looking at the slip indicator light flashing at me and of course the cruise control shuts off.

All the while every time I've had this rig on the freeway at anything over 50 it's just smooth as butter to drive.

Also got my 54 mm socket in so I'm going to double-check my wheel bearing tightness as I swear I can feel just a little bit of wiggle at 12 and 6 when I'm messing with the rotors.

 

[2001LC]

I haven't gotten them yet, shpuld be here Monday though.

But here's the odd thing, around the same time that I had the alarm beeping at me my cruise control was set, the first time and I was traveling over 70mph on I-85 in a straight line and all the sudden it's just beeping away and I'm looking at the slip indicator light flashing at me and of course the cruise control shuts off.

All the while every time I've had this rig on the freeway at anything over 50 it's just smooth as butter to drive.

Also got my 54 mm socket in so I'm going to double-check my wheel bearing tightness as I swear I can feel just a little bit of wiggle at 12 and 6 when I'm messing with the rotors.

Interesting ABS not kicking in, that would indicate ABS shutting down. I'd not equate that to slop in front end.

Side notes:
Spring scale (fish scale) is a must to check breakaway preload of wheel bearings.

I place jack under LCA to take weight off ball joints. I then place a 5' 30lb pray bar under tire and repeatedly lift & release. I video ball joints and bushing as I do this. Also Video TRE & steering rack with wheel on ground while turning turning/rocking steering wheel.

 

[Beazer76]

I haven't gotten them yet, shpuld be here Monday though.

But here's the odd thing, around the same time that I had the alarm beeping at me my cruise control was set, the first time and I was traveling over 70mph on I-85 in a straight line and all the sudden it's just beeping away and I'm looking at the slip indicator light flashing at me and of course the cruise control shuts off.

All the while every time I've had this rig on the freeway at anything over 50 it's just smooth as butter to drive.

Also got my 54 mm socket in so I'm going to double-check my wheel bearing tightness as I swear I can feel just a little bit of wiggle at 12 and 6 when I'm messing with the rotors.

Mine does the same thing when on the freeway. However, it seems to happen more when I go over a larger expansion joint, like before and after a bridge.

 

[Greenbean]

Same here,

I learned quickly to be on top of things just in case,

Some kind of bump will jar something enough to make the system think I'm losing control.

@2001LC When the third and final situation occurred it indeed kicked in the ABS,
Try running over 60mph in a 65mph zone with cruise on and you are in a long sweeping left curve safe for the speed mind you and all of a sudden the right front wheel ABS engages and then the left rear.

I'm trying to get my mind around the programming of OK if I was in a "loss of control" situation and the system thought I was oversteering in a left hand curve, or say swerving to miss a deer it would indeed try and modulate the right front first because that's the area of greatest traction via the weight of the vehicle is on it. If the electronics thought the vehicle was over steering and my tail end was going to come around on the right it makes no sense to try to modulate the ABS in the front left because that wheel would be not sitting in the air but the weight of the vehicle is going to be off of the left front tire. Hence almost zero traction. It wouldn't try the rear because if your indeed oversteeing the rear already has a loss of traction. After the weight shifted then left rear tried to engage.

I do wonder at times at freeway speeds if the system thought it was close to needing to engage because every time I use the cruise and the cruise tries/needs to downshift or engage a higher RPM via the TC it always shuts off the cruise.

I am helping UPS this season so my days are not I voling me working on the rig,

Hopefully I'll have free time after Christmas to really dive in more.

My poly bushing kit should be here on Monday, and I am wanting to use the LC to commute to my pickup location for UPS so I am really hoping to have them in ASAP.

 

[2001LC]

Then (ABS activating) my money is on loose wheel bearings combined with sloppy front end.

One more note:

I've seen two cracked ABS wheel speed sensors on two out of three high millage 100 series this year. One had no symptoms, one appears to have shut down ABS due to no signal condition. In each case I believe a shop mechanic broke, either by prying out or when bolt back in dirty. Wheel sensors will get crud build up, freeze them in the knuckle. Proper way to remove if frozen is by taping out from inside with piece of wood. In each of these case wheel bearings were recently done, but needed redo as they where improperly done which is often the case.

I suppose it possible for a wheel speed sensor to move slightly. Then system read as change in wheel speed.

 

[Greenbean]

So um yeah, @2001LC


I fought the bushings today whilst it was about 40ish outside,

Was able to get the front right positioned easily and the two front halves on the left side in pretty easily, the left rear lower is in but man oh man the left rear upper was giving me so much trouble. Guess it's just a sign of a very good tolerance but wow. I gave up as I began to freeze and get frustrated as I could not get the metal sleeve in the front ones so I will re-group and go again in a few days.

Tomorrow's high is forecasted at 30' Hahaha

 

[2001LC]

I always start with the top back one with metal sleeve in bushing. It's the tough one.

Try pulling in (down) the top halve with metal sleeve in poly bushing first, then bottom will pop right in. The trick is to get perfectly square as you pull it in. Oh and use the supplied grease all over the poly.

 

[Beazer76]

So I checked my steering rack bushings...there was about 1/4-1/2 inch play when prying up on the rack itself. I ordered a poly bushing kit from Summit Racing the next day. I've since installed the bushings (about 1 hour) with no more signs of the slip indicator light coming on; even when I through "s" curves where it always went off before. One thing that was interesting was the old bushing didn't have the appearance of being warn (tears, or falling appart) when visually inspecting them. So I was skeptical when installing...but it appears to have worked!!

 

[Greenbean]

How in the world did you get that done in such quick time?

 

[Beazer76]

How in the world did you get that done in such quick time?

We actually changed two sets (my buddy's and mine) in 1:45min. That doesn't include getting the cruiser up on stands and the plates off. One of the hardest parts was getting the driver's side rear one out, as some have noted. But we just used a large flathead for prying the rack back towards the rear to get enough room to maneuver it out. The most difficult part was getting the new poly bushings in. We found that it worked best by using a longer bolt with a nut and washer to act like a press. Then removed it quick to reinstall the original bolt and but, before it slipped out. If you do it this way be careful not to use too long of a bolt on the drivers side rear hole, as it can be tightened right up into the oil pan. So just keep an eye on it when HAND tightening. Hand righting will also reducing the chances of the bushing not seating corrrectly and squeezing out the side.

 

[2001LC]

Good job, supper fast star!

I did three this summer and each time I said; "this time, I'll do in 90 minutes". Each time I got stuck getting top rear half in. Each time took 3 hr's or more start to finish (all inclusive).

 

[Beazer76]

Good job, supper fast star!

I did three this summer and each time I said; "this time, I'll do in 90 minutes". Each time I got stuck getting top rear half in. Each time took 3 hr's or more start to finish (all inclusive).
View attachment 1370881

I should mention that the other LC owner I changed them out with used to run his own mechanic shop....so had some nice tools. - Though he said he had never changed out rack bushings before. - I'm just stoked that you suggested this fix and it's working. Now I have to figure if I can fix my windshield leak without having to get new drip moldings at 120$ a pop.

 

[Dannyboy lx470]

Just question control arm bushing what do I look for if there gone and can someone post a pic of them in the arm.

 

[Northbound]

This happened for a second time for me in a stock, low mileage (85k) 2005. Right hand turn at 55 or so on dry pavement.

The way the road is curved and undulated might de-stabilize the vehicle, but will check bushings as it's the wife's winter car.