Looks like you're doin' it up right!
Sick 2F ... Head Gasket?
- Thread starter jasharp
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #23
Well, it doesn't start.
Had spark to dist. and to plugs, fuel in the bowl... turns over but thats all. I switched the wires opposite in case it was 180deg out. Nothing. Managed to find TDC without removing the alternator again, and re-removed the dist. again. If this is correct, I was about 55deg out or something. Anyways I have reinstalled and it is aligned as per the pics in the link (fig. 8-90) and will put everything back on and try again in daylight.
Is there a way to tell if I am at TDC for compression without taking off the valve cover? I believe I can see the intake valve open on number 3. Will try to look it up see if that tells me anything.
Had spark to dist. and to plugs, fuel in the bowl... turns over but thats all. I switched the wires opposite in case it was 180deg out. Nothing. Managed to find TDC without removing the alternator again, and re-removed the dist. again. If this is correct, I was about 55deg out or something. Anyways I have reinstalled and it is aligned as per the pics in the link (fig. 8-90) and will put everything back on and try again in daylight.
Is there a way to tell if I am at TDC for compression without taking off the valve cover? I believe I can see the intake valve open on number 3. Will try to look it up see if that tells me anything.
Remove spark plug from Cylinder # 1 and drop a long screwdriver in cylinder?
You are either on or 180 out. It happens. There is a way to statically time it. Mark A did an article in the TLCA mag. I just read it on the crapper the other day. Same way we used to time a Beetle.
Posted from a brick.
Posted from a brick.
I can tell you how to get to #1 TDC on a GM SBC not sure it applies to the I-6 but here is one way to do it on a SBC. The whole point is to be TDC at #1...on the compression stroke.
remove power source to coil so engine cannot fire. remove spark plug at #1 cylinder. Make sure and paint or markup the timing mark where you can easily see it. place thumb over number one spark plug hole, bump starter until you feel pressure with your thumb...(this tells you that you are on compression stroke).. continue to bump starter while watching timing mark...very slow until you verify that your timing mark lines up with your reference point. If you go past the timing mark start process over.
when I say bump the starter I'm saying either using a remote start switch or in the truck...just turn the key fast on and then off where the starter will engage and just move the engine a little bit at the time.
In this scenario.... on the SBC. I would confirm compression stroke, I would verify that the timing mark is at or very close to the reference point 0 degrees at the harmoinc balancer and then I would also confirm that the distributor rotor button is pointing to the # 1 plug wire on the dist cap. I've not read up on the I-6 since I did not own one for very long and during the time I had it...I never had to do any real serious work to it. So take what I've said as it applies to the GM SBC (old school (early 90's and older) versions of the SBC. It may or may not apply to the I-6.
I assume the manual goes into detail about how to get base timing set, I doubt you can shortcut that...I posted the above to help but understand its the GM SBC world.
remove power source to coil so engine cannot fire. remove spark plug at #1 cylinder. Make sure and paint or markup the timing mark where you can easily see it. place thumb over number one spark plug hole, bump starter until you feel pressure with your thumb...(this tells you that you are on compression stroke).. continue to bump starter while watching timing mark...very slow until you verify that your timing mark lines up with your reference point. If you go past the timing mark start process over.
when I say bump the starter I'm saying either using a remote start switch or in the truck...just turn the key fast on and then off where the starter will engage and just move the engine a little bit at the time.
In this scenario.... on the SBC. I would confirm compression stroke, I would verify that the timing mark is at or very close to the reference point 0 degrees at the harmoinc balancer and then I would also confirm that the distributor rotor button is pointing to the # 1 plug wire on the dist cap. I've not read up on the I-6 since I did not own one for very long and during the time I had it...I never had to do any real serious work to it. So take what I've said as it applies to the GM SBC (old school (early 90's and older) versions of the SBC. It may or may not apply to the I-6.
I assume the manual goes into detail about how to get base timing set, I doubt you can shortcut that...I posted the above to help but understand its the GM SBC world.
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- Thread starter
- #27
Hm I think I can bump it like you say with how I have it set now to try and confirm. I jumpered the starter when I did the compression check so I could control it from under the hood. I should be able to do the same with my thumb over the hole. With the dist. still in place make sure it points to 1. Thanks guys I'll give 'er a try!
I "bump" mine with a giant socket wrench on the crank nut. Before that, I'd pull the clutch inspection cover and spin the flywheel around with a big screwdriver by prying on the teeth. If you have a second set of eyes, it's real easy to line the timing mark up exactly. And you can back up if you go a little too far.
I've never had luck with the starter or pushing it in gear.
I've never had luck with the starter or pushing it in gear.
you better check that what I say above relates to the I-6....(I'm not sure you point to #1 on the I-6 engine)
the thumb trick should confirm compression stroke regardless, unless your valves are out of whack. The other details are engine specific and may not apply...make sure you are tracking on that point.
the thumb trick should confirm compression stroke regardless, unless your valves are out of whack. The other details are engine specific and may not apply...make sure you are tracking on that point.
- Thread starter
- #30
It runs! Running warm though. Argh.
The blow-hole technique on number 1 confirmed the timing. took a few tries but then fired. As for the temp, got as high as 3/4 on the gauge before I shut it down. I need to do something about that, find out what temp it is really. new thermostat, new water pump, i replaced the fan clutch too. I did not flush the radiator. Guess I will do that next. Any other ideas on the temp issue are welcome.
Also my brakes seem to have leaked badly while it sat, made the first drive interesting. Otherwise seems to be running ok. Thanks everybody on the help getting it going!
On an unrelated note Deacon cut his tail pretty bad last night. He's ok but it was right on the tip and of course he never stopped wagging it. Looked like a murder scene!
The blow-hole technique on number 1 confirmed the timing. took a few tries but then fired. As for the temp, got as high as 3/4 on the gauge before I shut it down. I need to do something about that, find out what temp it is really. new thermostat, new water pump, i replaced the fan clutch too. I did not flush the radiator. Guess I will do that next. Any other ideas on the temp issue are welcome.
Also my brakes seem to have leaked badly while it sat, made the first drive interesting. Otherwise seems to be running ok. Thanks everybody on the help getting it going!
On an unrelated note Deacon cut his tail pretty bad last night. He's ok but it was right on the tip and of course he never stopped wagging it. Looked like a murder scene!
temp will not read right until you get the air out of the system. Get the front end up high, open radiator cap and let engine run until thermostat cycles with both heaters on max hot and engine full of coolant, check coolant during and after process. Potential air pockets in system.
You could have air in the system. 60s can be a pain to get full of water. ive had good luck with the front of the truck elavated. Also make sure you dont have the timeing advanced too much that could make it run hotter.
Your temp sensor could be bad too. Mine went bad in the 40 and was reading hot. I got a laser thermometer to verify it.
- Thread starter
- #34
Tried the hill trick, may have gotten some air out. Had to add a bit of coolant (pint??) It leveled out at "half" on the temp gauge and stayed there:
Think I'll try one of those laser deals to see what it really is.
Was hard starting again, turned the distributor fully clockwise (thats advance right?) and it started, then reset. Right now its set on the BB, which I guess is 7deg. Distributor is adjusted this much:
No real test drive though. Was sorting out my brake issues, found the leak here:
Tried to snug it, wouldn't. Tried to back it off, snapped! (And care taken or not, fluid DID spill on the tube and painted surfaces and my face and the floor and in my sleeves and...) So now thats draining in to a pan, and I have to get that fixed before I can take it anywhere. HOORAY! Can I get a small splice type brake line, or am I going to have to replace that whole thing? its right at the end.
Think I'll try one of those laser deals to see what it really is.
Was hard starting again, turned the distributor fully clockwise (thats advance right?) and it started, then reset. Right now its set on the BB, which I guess is 7deg. Distributor is adjusted this much:
No real test drive though. Was sorting out my brake issues, found the leak here:
Tried to snug it, wouldn't. Tried to back it off, snapped! (And care taken or not, fluid DID spill on the tube and painted surfaces and my face and the floor and in my sleeves and...) So now thats draining in to a pan, and I have to get that fixed before I can take it anywhere. HOORAY! Can I get a small splice type brake line, or am I going to have to replace that whole thing? its right at the end.
Another coolant trick...
When I'm filling the coolant, I'll jam a flathead screwdriver between the upper radiator hose and its neck on the radiator to give the air a place to exit. I just fill until coolant comes out that side. It's worked every time for me, even from a drained block.
When I'm filling the coolant, I'll jam a flathead screwdriver between the upper radiator hose and its neck on the radiator to give the air a place to exit. I just fill until coolant comes out that side. It's worked every time for me, even from a drained block.
another thing I end up doing on my SBC FJ60 is when I have to drain the coolant for whatever reason...its always hell to get the air back out too... I have resorted to removing the water neack and the thermostat...and I'll fill the engine up full with 50/50 mix just all the way up close to the thermostat...install the thermstat and water neck and then proceed on with the normal bleeding type process described above. . IN the past I've played hell getting the coolant to cycle in the SBC due to air pockets and it will get some very large air pockets...I just follow the above every time now.
The truck will run at 180 out and you can time it to the BB. It will be hard to start You should be able to tell. I may be leaning toward a vacuum leak in your case.
As for the brake line, I think you will need the whole thing unless you bodge something together.
I have not had trouble putting water in the 2F. I park on a hill and fill. When the thermostat opens, it burbs every time and I am able to top it off.
As for the brake line, I think you will need the whole thing unless you bodge something together.
I have not had trouble putting water in the 2F. I park on a hill and fill. When the thermostat opens, it burbs every time and I am able to top it off.
- Thread starter
- #38
... you mean a vacuum leak for the hard start? Once it was running i timed it to the BB it seems to run well. I have not however had it under any real load yet. There may well be a vacuum issue, it was desmogged by the po, I set all my vacuum lines by this diagram:
EDIT: one thing different I did was run the advance line to the main port, looks like they have it to the High Altitude port on the dist. in the diagram.
It's not the 2f that's the problem with filling with water it's the 60. Has to do with the heater hoses and the valve on the firewall that's higher than the radiator.
I know that occasionally a split vacuum hose can go unnoticed but I think you replaced them all right?
I could see that. The one I parted had a hose fitting on one of the heater lines, I guess to flush it out but That would be a way to force air out.
I could see that. The one I parted had a hose fitting on one of the heater lines, I guess to flush it out but That would be a way to force air out.