Set your own ring/pinion gears? How hard?

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Mar 22, 2004
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Castle Rock, CO
Curious if anyone out there has setup their own diffs with new ring/pinions by themselves. Obviously some have (Robbie, etc), but I'm talking like normal garage dudes, not full-on mechanics. I know approx what tools I'd need, but curious if anyone else has done a writeup or some pointers. What tools? Spreaders? Pullers? Something to hold the diff so it doesn't fall on your foot, etc.. :)

I have the e-lockers which I believe makes the job more challenging, not for the gear setup but just the gear swap in general.

I know most will just say to pay a shop to set them up and have it done right, and that's fine, I probably will, but it's tempting to figure it out myself, and then help others setup their own too.

Thanks,
Mark Brodis
 
Doh, just realized I'm in the Chit-chat section..and I can't figure out how to delete this post (maybe you can't?), so can someone move it to the 80s-Tech area..

Thanks,
Mark Brodis
 
Mark,

If it helps you, it would be good if you have or have access to a few special tools. You need a dial indicator to check the backlash in the ring and pinion, and you need a press with a bearing tool to pull the pinion bearing to install different shims for your test fits till you get a good wear pattern. Here are a couple of pics showing a couple of other things I made. Some are high tech like the 5 gallon bucket with a hole in the side to get access to the pinion flange. I made a front and rear cutout in plywood to hold the diff while working on it. Also, made the tool to hold the pinion flange to tighten the nut etc.
Speaking of a 97, as far as I know, the difference with a diff lock is there are side shims to set the backlash in the rear. Without a diff lock there are adjusting nuts (my term) to set the backlash.
The process is relatively simple. The way I do it is to set the backlash first, then adjust the pinion depth for the pattern. That is the hardest part - reading the pattern and knowing which way to go.

Bill
Diff-setup-tools.webp
50-ton-press.webp
 
The reason his truck is so damn heavy is because he takes that press with him in case he needs it......:flipoff2:
 
Cool tools!! :)

Ok, so I've seen pictures of a dial indicator (no I don't have one yet) just like your's is setup, but what the heck are you measuring?

The dial indicator is touching the ring-gear teeth??? I know I'm sure I'll find pictures which describe this fully, just confusing at the moment. Don't have a press, but I have a 10-ton hydraulic pipe bender, which is lame, so I'll add to that to make a press.

Thanks a ton!
Mark Brodis
 
Mark,

The dial indicator is supposed to be setup parallel with the ring gear to measure the backlash. Backlash is the free play between the ring and pinion gear and is measured where the indicator is in the pic. It is important to have some backlash/freeplay. IIRC, for a 97 it should be between .006" and .008". The way it is done is to hold the pinion flange so the pinion gear doesn't move, and with your hand rock the ring gear back and forth while watching the dial indicator. Hope this helps explain it.

Bill
 
brodis - for good instruction on how to use a dial indicator, search some of the machining sites out there. There's some great free instruction sites out there and they will teach you a lot of crap that will come in handy when working on your junk.
 
I have replaced the bearings. Don't know how much more work it is to remove the gear.
I didn't need a press. I pounded out the pinion. I have the tap to repair the threads on the pinion but if you are replacing the pinion then it wouldn't mater.

I had help from a guy that has done a chevy diff before. He has the pullers and dials to check the backlash and the dial to see if thing are out of round.

It takes two guys or 4 hands to get some things set right so doing it buy your self might not be the way to go.
 
Bill,

I like your diff holder setup - very trick and safe! When you're setting the pinion depth, are you accessing it through the opening in the side of the drum? Since this takes a couple of trials to get it correct, are you accessing the nut through this access hole with the impact?

Ali
 
Mark,

In reading Junk's post I realized I was not real clear. Sometimes I make assumptions. The dial indicator has a plunger that works in and out and indicates the difference in thousandths (US) by watching the gauge. It has a magnetic base that has a switch type affair to lock it down. It is good for finding out of round, runout, backlash, and I use it for centering things in a lathe (especially with a four jaw chuck). For the backlash, as you rock the ring gear back and forth, the plunger moves in and out, and you can determine the difference of the freeplay (backlash) by the gauge. Also, you can check to make sure the ring gear is running true by letting the indicator run on the flat side of ring gear as you turn it. FWIW, I heat the ring gear a bit with a propane torch when installing it to get it to expand. Similar to putting a new ring gear on a flywheel if you are familiar with that.


Ali,

When I am first doing the pinion depth I don't use a crush sleeve. IIRC, the torque on the pinion nut and new bearings is something like 13 in. lbs. for the setup so things can be held by hand when tightening.
This will assume a 97 rear with a diff lock. I wrote in another thread how I determine the side shim thickness for the backlash. I have found that once the backlash is determined, it does not change much in setting up the pinion depth. Using the top pic as a starting point, I would put on the side bearing caps and torque them down. You have to hold the plywood (I do it with my knees against the edges) and pull the torque parallel to the bearing caps for a mechanical advantage. Gear paint, toothpaste, or Lithium grease a few of the ring gear teeth. I then use a crow bar or similar to hold pressure against the ring gear for a load and through the bucket side hole, turn the pinion flange around, back and forth, etc. to get a pattern on the drive and coast sides of the ring gear.
To make pinion shim/washer changes I then rattle gun the bearing caps off, tap one side shim out on one side, then lift out the ring gear/spiders. Next, I lift out the third member housing (carrier) from the plywood hole and flip it over. I loosen the pinion nut which as I said is not very tight. In the bottom of the bucket I have a pile of rags. With a wooden block against the pinion nut end, I drive out the pinion till it falls into the rags in the bucket. Over to the press. Press off the rear pinion bearing, replace different thickness shim/washer, press bearing back on. Reinstall pinion with flange and repeat procedure.
After everything is correct, I install the crush sleeve (bearing spacer). I use the tool I made to hold the pinion flange for this (or you could use a large pipe wrench). It helps to clamp down the third member to a workbench or such as it takes quite a bit of torque to crush the sleeve. Slowly creep up on the torque/preload/backlash. If you go too much, you have to install a new crush sleeve.
Disclaimer – this is just the way I did this, mostly to explain how the plywood and bucket fits in, and most of it is just from memory. I did quite a bit of this in the drag racing days, as any time the tire diameter changed, motor RPM’s changed, then so to did the ring and pinion need changed. Hope it is of some help to you.

Bill
 
Wow, that's very helpful, thanks Photoman (should be Toolman)!

I understand the dial dohickie thingy now...how do you keep the pinion from turning at all? I understand just putting a tool on the pinion flange or something but it seems that when you're only looking for like 0.008" play in the ringgear, any tool you put on the pinion still wouldn't hold it THAT tight, or if you could even feel that play on the pinion? 0.008" doesn't seem like alot to me, gearwise yes, but feeling, and holding the pinion tight enough to feel the play in the ringgear.. ??

Anyhoo, thanks a ton...you've inspired me to give it a shot...the worse that can happen is I screwup perfectly good gears.. :) and carrier, and bearings, and housing...HA! :)

Thanks,
Mark Brodis
 
Bill,

Thanks for info. This sounds much easier than setting the crush sleeve on other diffs I've worked on in the past.

Mark,

You can DO it!

Ali
 
Junk said:
I'm starting to think there is not a single tool in existance that Photo doesn't have. :flipoff2:


No kidding. And if they don't make the tool, he will make it. :D
 
I’m sorry I have no knowledge or experience on using the solid spacers.

A note on some other handy tools. In the pic, on the right are a couple of pieces of flat stock I drilled and put in some pins. These are handy for setting up the front backlash. If you have a diff lock the pins need to stick out a little farther to turn the adjusting nut on the ring gear side. I made mine so it works with either. Also, the ring gear side adjusting nut is a different diameter than the other side so two tools are better since the last adjustment for backlash requires one side to be tightened the same amount as the other side is backed off.

Another tool is the bearing puller jaws I made in the center of the pic. Toyota sells the tool for about $150.00 US. I made the jaws for another puller I have so the picture is just the jaws. It worked, although pretty tough. This saves from having to take the front back apart after getting it set up to put the crush sleeve in. IIRC, it can only go in from the back because of the tin oil retainer ring.

One last thing I don’t know if I mentioned. I keep the bucket partially full of rags. This way after removing the flange to get the pinion out for a new thickness shim, I flip the pumpkin over on the wood, and drive the pinion back through the bearings, and it falls softly in the rags without chipping a tooth.

The washer looking things are various shims. See Cdan.

Good luck!

Bill
Rear-End-Tools.webp
 
Bill, thanks a bunch. This is a front w/ locker that's going into my 4runner. I have the luxury of time with this one. I've also got a 97 80 with lockers that's our family minvan right now, but one day will be a wheeler. So I'm willing to invest in the tools now cause I think I'll use it over time. Think a 12 ton press is enough? I was a machinist in a former life so I have mics, indicators, etc.

thanks
tony
 
Tony,

12 ton is more than enough. It only (or should) take about 2 tons to press the bearings back and forth on the pinion. I go to 4 or 5 ton as a last tweak to make sure the bearing is tight against the shim and gear. Probably not necessary. A mike is nice if you need to check what the thickness of the shims are if you just have them sitting around out of their packages. :doh: For the front, two dial indicators make things easier, but certainly not required. With one you have to move it from checking the backlash to putting side pressure on, then back to checking the backlash again. No big deal.
So, you need a small press, a bearing removal tool, a dial indicator to check backlash, an in-lb and ft-lb torque wrench, a way to hold the pumpkin, a way to keep the flange from turning, and a way to adjust the nuts? to set the backlash, an FSM, and something to mark the gears to check the pattern. The bearing removal tool is the one in the upper right pic; not the jaws from He** I made.
Something else that may help is anytime I remove an old bearing I cut the bearing through the race. Then when I press the new bearing or race on I use the old cut one which then is very easily removed.

The tools, other than the puller, are extremely easy to make.

If you do end up using a crush sleeve, it takes a good bit of pressure to get it moving. I think I have hit about 245 ft-lbs. So you might need some cheaters or really have to man up. The tricky thing is you need all that pressure and yet at the end just have to creep up to get the tiny in-lb rotational torque correct.

Bill
Bearing-Races.webp
 

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