Seeking your thoughts on new drawer system (3 Viewers)

[TrekboxX]

Getting there!

Happy Holidays fellow Mud members! I apologize for not updating in a while. These cargo systems are progressing, but not at the speed at which I would like (the speed of light, of course). For the past two months I have been working with the manufacturers to get the first production system built, and work out all of the kinks of the manufacturing process. There have been a few hiccups, which was expected. I finally picked up all of the CNC cut Birch panels last week, in exchange for an absurdly large check. Upon inspection, I found that a number of them were machined incorrectly. Some holes were missing, and some holes appeared where there should be none. Must have been my fault. I guess the clear, concise, color-coded CAD files with associated legend I provided just wasn’t enough… Not to mention the 52 trips to meet with them and go over the drawings! Anyways, they will make it right and we will move forward. Once we get through this first one, and the tool paths are programmed correctly, future systems and any changes should be a breeze.

The metal bits are ready, and waiting at the metal fab shop to go to Line-X with the wood panels. They will be sand blasted just prior, to minimize any flash rust in the meantime. The steel in this first system will be coated in Line-X instead of powder coat, because this system will replace the one I have in my 100, and that is what I want. It will be more durable and all but eliminate any rattles from loose cargo. The Line-X will be the standard coating on the wood, but an option on the metal for any like-minded folks.

The cutting board/ work surface came out really well. I’m excited for the reveal! It’s a very high-end phenolic cutting board material, super tough, and looks really good. I have finished it with a homemade hand rubbed coating of pure beeswax and mineral oil. The material does not need to be finished- it is non-porous, but it can still stain like most other materials. The wax/oil helps with this, and gives a rancid-free finish that looks and feels great.

In the meantime I have been cataloging and organizing the 486 pieces of hardware. Yep. 486. I’ve also been working with a large printing company on product tags, which should be finished shortly. I have created a website that will replace the “place holder” site that’s up now once the doors open. I’ve also been working on the design for the second system, which will be a more traditional 2-drawer flat-top system. Not to mention having a baby at home, working lots of overtime to pay for this adventure, selling and buying a house…

I’ve also picked up and refurbished a horizontal boring machine to drill all of the holes into the edges of the panels that the CNC machine can’t access. It took a bit of work, but it works like a charm with the custom fence and alignment jig I made for it.

I’d like to also mention that I am grateful for the comments and advice you guys have given me, as well as the numerous offers for help I’ve received! Very cool, and much appreciated. I am truly sorry this is taking so long, but I refuse to put out an inferior product. Hope your Turkey Day was a good one!

Don't know why these images posted upside down.... Looked good on the preview- sorry!

 

[UncleBillyCA]

It's better too wait until they are done correctly then to release a screwed up product. I'm really looking fwd to seeing these! Take all the time you need, I don't have my 100 series yet

 

[cboyd]

Originally, I was hoping to be able to offer it both ways- fridge on left and right. But it just isn't possible without making two completely different systems (which I may still do, depending on what you all want). I chose to do the fridge on the driver's side. I'll explain my reasoning, and I'd love your feedback. Here are a few things I thought about when making this decision:

Pros:
1. The fridge on the driver's side increases your visibility out the back window by placing the higher-sitting fridge directly behind the driver. Unless you're fully loaded. Then you can't see out the back, anyways.
2. Normally, I believe a full drawer (at least for me) with tools, etc. weighs much more than a fridge. Placing the drawer on the passenger side helps offset the driver/battery/etc. - the 100 seems to sit driver side low to begin with.
3. Day to day, if you need to haul a longer item, you can just tumble the single second row seat and still have the other two available (I keep the little one in the 2nd row center).
4. Because the rear cargo area is asymmetrical, having the fridge on the driver side gives you quite a bit more space between the fridge barrier and the side of the truck. This space is very usable (around 8"+). On the pass side it would be a tight fit (around 6") for anything except pretty small items.


Cons:
1. Putting it on the passenger side seems to be the "cool" way. Maybe because across the pond they drive from the right side?
2. Yes, you would have to tumble the whole second row to sleep on the pass side. I don't see this as a huge deal, at least for me. I don't pack cargo on the seats.
3. You need another 3' or so of electrical wire to run across to driver's side.

That's all I can think of for now. I'd love to hear what you guys think. Fridge left or right?

David

A couple of more data points on this.. currently I have my fridge on the DS, but after an event this weekend I am considering chaining it to PS. (DS/PS relative the LHD vehicle)

1) I already have a blocked PS sight line due to my Slee tire carrier. I have a 37 qt fridge, so it's not even as high as the tire sits. i imagine even a 50qt wouldn't stick up above it with your dropped side.
2) I planned to have a camp kitchen mount on the Slee ladder when I have it swung out, so having the slide and kitchen drawer from your system on the DS would mean I couldn't do that. Having it on the PS, means it would be very useful! I would have a proper prep area behind me on the slide, fridge right next to it. A real kitchen triangle!
3) For a solo event this past weekend, I chose to sleep in the rig rather than pull the RTT out in the rain. Really wishing I had the 60% side to sleep in rather than the 40% side i did have.

So no chance you'll offer a modular way to swap the sides?

Regardless, I really like this and it's still in high consideration even with above data points. Any update on availability timeline? I have basically held off buying OS drawers until yours are ready.

 

[TrekboxX]

I've put more thought into offering both configurations. I think it is totally doable. A far as timeline goes- I am very sorry that it's taking so long. I was hoping to be open for business already. But, as I've said, I refuse to pull the trigger before all is in line. As long as the holidays don't slow us down too much, I should have the bugs worked out of the system by the new year. I'm also working on the packaging for shipping, which is a big one. Mirroring the CAD and tool pathing a reversed system shouldn't take too long, so then a system like you are wanting would be available. The next step is to finalize the design on the two-drawer flat top system which many may prefer. It's been tough waiting for others in each step of the process, but I know it's a learning curve for our partners. They don't have the benefit of countless hours designing and mulling over the system like I do.

 

[TrekboxX]

Strange- the pics above show correctly on my computer, but upside down on an ipad or phone. How do they look to you guys?

 

[Hugh Heifer]

Strange- the pics above show correctly on my computer, but upside down on an ipad or phone. How do they look to you guys?

Don't show at all in the app on my droid. Or are you talking about the pics of the CNCed panels and the Pacco machine in post 101? Those appear correct.

Heifer-net

 

[TrekboxX]

Yeah, the panels and boring machine. Glad they look right on your end. Thanks!

 

[nahtnoj]

Not sure what he was thinking, but if you could make them lock core compatible, owners could install their own locks if needed, and it could match our other Yakima accessories. It would be pretty slick to have one key that worked all my bike racks plus the rear drawer system!

Probably- what do you have in mind?

Fireball hit on what I was getting at.

 

[TrekboxX]

Fireball hit on what I was getting at.

Ahh, gotcha. Well, there may be some hurdles there- the lock cores would have to be the same diameter and also be extra deep considering the thickness of the material. I will look into it, but I have my doubts as each system probably has their own specs... TBD...

 

[deatramus]

Great timing for me!

Just found this thread and the timing couldn't be better....I am very impressed and intrigued by your endeavor here!

I am involved in planning my own build (looks like it will be an '07 LX 470) and the drawers/weight etc are a big issue for me as this will be a long range explorer and we would like to keep the AHC (as there will be thousands of blacktop road miles clocked as well as off road adventures).....so weight is a critical issue.

I guess I assumed that the steel units would be lighter (my bad) and was headed for a set of the ARB drawers. I would MUCH PREFER WOOD for all the reasons you mention as well as the fact that I am a retired furniture designer/manufacturer myself and it just FEELS so much better!

I just stumbled on to this thread and evidentally there are previous threads about your product showing some type of table pullout etc?...very interested in all aspects of what you are doing.....

Anyway, I am intrigued and seriuosly interested, and, of course, have imput of my own...(later on that).

It is quite late here and I need to address this at a different time, however, I would like to offer an observation if I may....

My passion was product and systems developement...I feel your excitement and dedication to a quality and sucessful productline.

Take your time, don't allow the pressure of the marketplace and all the great and very excited potential customers here (I am one of them!) deter you from your task...bringing out a quality and well designed product line.

From the posted designs and actual photos displayed in this thread....you are well on your way....stick to your guns, it all looks very promising and extremely well thought out and your willingness to seek out and listen to your client base speaks volumes...

I also have some ideas for you on the financial end of things as that can and will be a place to create intense stress on any product developement process (if you are interested), especially for a start up, if that is what you are.

I gotta go to bed!....but am very excited for you (and for me and the potential of using your product in my build!)

Maybe we can have a conversation at some point if you've a mind or some PMs (don't know how that works from here)...

Anyway, good luck, take all the time you need to get this right,
and congrats on your progress to date...it's brilliant!

Ciao,
Deatramus

 

[TrekboxX]

I really appreciate the kind words. I do take comfort in the probability that most here are more patient than I am! The biggest problem I'm having is getting the cnc work done- and the cost. I'm truly considering buying a full machine myself. My wife would kill me, but as the cost breakdown stands I am basically making these systems for free until I can implement some efficiency measures. With a cnc, I can have full control over the lead times. Also, any changes or custom work will be easier, quicker, and cheaper. Plus, if I only sell a couple of systems (a big fear) I can always put the machine to work on other things. I've gotten some great advice from others in the business to not work for free- however I know there is a limit to what people will pay for a drawer system. Most folks (myself included) look at the cost of a system and think "That's crazy. I can build one for a quarter of that cost." Well, you really can't, but it seems we all must learn that lesson ourselves...

Thanks again. Hope all of your holidays are safe and happy!

David

 

[cboyd]

Have you thought out the shipping yet? Is it going to ship as one unit? If so, that's going to be a killer for those on the east coast. Dimensional weight is very expensive!

IKEA already worked through this problem. It also proves out some efficiency. I'd almost prefer to assemble mine myself, because I'd like to do tan color.

If you go the kit route, then people can do their own mods and customizations. Of course, some will always want it assembled, so you could offer that and not "work for free".

 

[TrekboxX]

From the beginning, these were meant to be shipped in rta- ready to assemble form. Just like Ikea, only quality. Building them this way actually much increases production and hardware costs, but saves a lot on shipping and construction. Also, as you say, they are more easily modified by the end user prior to assembly. As far as working for free- I mean picking up and transfering materials to the cnc shop, the metal fab shop(some), bringing them home for horizontal boring and QC, then transporting them to Line-X for coating, and of course bringing it all home again to package for shipping. Not to mention website, the books and billing, design, instruction manuals, hardware aquisition, customer service- the list goes on.

As far as color- as of now these are only going to be available pre-finished. There will be a tan option, as well as any other color for a surcharge. I may change my mind, but I don't know if I'm interested in putting my name on a product that leaves the finishing up to the customer. Also, these systems are designed to require a very specific mil thickness finish, and that will be hard for the diy folks. There may be enough tolerance in the system to allow for varying finish thicknesses, but that is yet to be determined. Thanks for the input!

 

[goneloco]

Do you think you will have the drawer system for 80 series ready to go for beginning of May? Looking forward to getting this system.

 

[TrekboxX]

Do you think you will have the drawer system for 80 series ready to go for beginning of May? Looking forward to getting this system.

Boy, I sure hope so. Of course, I thought it would be well underway already! I'll do my best- and thanks for being patient

 

[aaronrules]

Wondering how everything is going? I see the website is up, but not a lot of content. I am interested in specs and measurments of drawers and slides and stuff! I might be willing to be a beta tester! Give you an idea about what it would be like for "regular" guy to install this system!

 

[TrekboxX]

Wondering how everything is going? I see the website is up, but not a lot of content. I am interested in specs and measurments of drawers and slides and stuff! I might be willing to be a beta tester! Give you an idea about what it would be like for "regular" guy to install this system!

Yeah, the website you see is just a placeholder. There is another full site I created that is waiting to replace what's there. Things have really slowed down temporarily due to my search for a CNC manufacturer. We are also relocating, so that is taking up a lot of time. The new place will have a large shop- I'm seriously considering buying a CNC myself. I could have much more control over the quality of the systems, and it would be much easier to add custom features for customers.

 

[repentsinner]

Subscribed and hoping for a 60-series version!

Drawing and fabricating up a cargo system is still low on the list of priorities for me, but as other things slowly get knocked off and I use the truck more it's going up. There's only so many plastic crates bouncing around in the back that I can take while trying to keep my eye on the trail =)

 

[Overland Tailor]

Another interested in the 80 series version.

Any plans for just a level 2-drawer system with a removable extension (second row) to be utilized as an extra cargo/sleeping system?

Thanks

John

 

[TrekboxX]

Another interested in the 80 series version.

Any plans for just a level 2-drawer system with a removable extension (second row) to be utilized as an extra cargo/sleeping system?

Thanks

John

There will definitely be a level 2 drawer system. The system is designed to match the height of the second row when folded, so you could easily fab an extension if you needed it. Personally, I'd just put my feet on the folded second row- it's already padded! I will definitely look at building an array of accessories such as that to suit everyone's needs. Thanks for the interest!