RET2
SILVER Star
Amen, don't feel like the Lone Ranger
Seeking dual battery advice (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CharlieS
- Start date
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CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #22
I appreciate the advice, and I'm sure it is spot on. I've been down the rabbit hole a time or two before too with prior builds. Do I need it? No. Do I want it? Yes. Who knows, I may be back in a couple of years sharing wisdom to the contrary, but for now, I want a dual battery setup, so I'm going to try it out.
fireball
SILVER Star
Fair enough.
May I ask why do you want it?
What are you doing with the truck, what types of trips do you take, or what do you perceive the advantage(s) to be over a grp31 main/100W solar panel/noco jump pack?
May I ask why do you want it?
What are you doing with the truck, what types of trips do you take, or what do you perceive the advantage(s) to be over a grp31 main/100W solar panel/noco jump pack?
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #24
I use my vehicle to tow a small camper to get away with the family in the spring, summer and fall. The camper has a single deep cycle battery. I have had a trailer battery go flat on long camping trips and didn't have a good way to recharge the battery to a full charge. I now have a solar panel setup for the camper (80w go power portable), but plan to add a way to charge the camper battery from the vehicle (Anderson connector under bumper). I also do a bunch of remote driving to explore, hike, fish and hunt without a camper - many of the spots are off the beaten track and nobody is around to jump start me if I have a dead battery. I've also had a stock battery die (inadvertently left the lights on) in populated areas and struggled to find help jumping the vehicle, even though I carry jumper cables. I don't carry a jump starting power pack, and don't want to worry about keeping one charged. I want to drive my vehicle and if I need a jump, press the button and go. I also want to be able to charge my vehicle battery with solar, if I am camping. I want the convenience of letting the system maintain itself with no intervention on my part, and be there when I need it.
fireball
SILVER Star
Hi Charlie, one more comment if I may, then I will stop cluttering your thread!
Your use case is very similar to ours. We tow a small off road trailer and camp solo in remote locations. The camper can stay put for days at a time, our truck rarely goes more than 24-36hrs without moving. Fridge is in the truck, camper has lights, furnace, fans and other small electrical draws. With a grp31 in the truck, a grp31 deep cycle in the camper, and a solar suitcase that we can use to charge either battery, we are good to go! Going this way you leave all OEM systems in tact and have much less wiring to manage, fewer parts to fail, etc.
@Markuson has more experience and data with the Noco chargers, but I've had mine for 18 months now and have charged it twice and used it a half dozen times. I don't think keeping them charged is an issue, they hold a charge for a loooong time.
Unless you have very high draw electrical needs, or want to stay camped without running the truck for multiple days at a time, I strongly feel the added complexity of the dual battery system is unnecessary. In my experience with our 100, the peace of mind I was seeking by going with a dual battery setup was negated by the worry of potential failure and issues.
Your use case is very similar to ours. We tow a small off road trailer and camp solo in remote locations. The camper can stay put for days at a time, our truck rarely goes more than 24-36hrs without moving. Fridge is in the truck, camper has lights, furnace, fans and other small electrical draws. With a grp31 in the truck, a grp31 deep cycle in the camper, and a solar suitcase that we can use to charge either battery, we are good to go! Going this way you leave all OEM systems in tact and have much less wiring to manage, fewer parts to fail, etc.
@Markuson has more experience and data with the Noco chargers, but I've had mine for 18 months now and have charged it twice and used it a half dozen times. I don't think keeping them charged is an issue, they hold a charge for a loooong time.
Unless you have very high draw electrical needs, or want to stay camped without running the truck for multiple days at a time, I strongly feel the added complexity of the dual battery system is unnecessary. In my experience with our 100, the peace of mind I was seeking by going with a dual battery setup was negated by the worry of potential failure and issues.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #26
Thanks again. Different approaches make the world go 'round. Yours sounds awesome, and I'm sure it works great for you.
Having to charge the jump box ever makes it more hassle than I'm willing to deal with. I want to set it and forget it.
For my part, I've already bought and installed everything except the batteries themselves. I have my stock group 27 back in the starting position temporarily, and am looking for the best batteries to buy. Any advice you can offer on that count would be greatly appreciated.
Some people worry, but I don't. I don't worry about vehicles. I own two vehicles that are supposed to blow up every minute of the day (996 IMS bearing, bore scoring, etc.), and have spent 0 time worrying about them. Lots of people fret and worry themselves to death about these cars, especially on Internet boards. I just go out and drive. I do the required maintenance and upgrades, and enjoy. I'm doing the same with the cruiser.
Also, in terms of added complexity, the Redarc setup is very well regarded by Australian overlanders - it is two little boxes (the BCDC and SBI), and some cable and fuses. I expect my experience to be similar to theirs. Also, if I unplug the cables leading to the primary battery, it will look just like yours, I will still have a group 31 main battery that I can charge with a plug in charger or my portable solar panel.
An old pic:
Having to charge the jump box ever makes it more hassle than I'm willing to deal with. I want to set it and forget it.
For my part, I've already bought and installed everything except the batteries themselves. I have my stock group 27 back in the starting position temporarily, and am looking for the best batteries to buy. Any advice you can offer on that count would be greatly appreciated.
Some people worry, but I don't. I don't worry about vehicles. I own two vehicles that are supposed to blow up every minute of the day (996 IMS bearing, bore scoring, etc.), and have spent 0 time worrying about them. Lots of people fret and worry themselves to death about these cars, especially on Internet boards. I just go out and drive. I do the required maintenance and upgrades, and enjoy. I'm doing the same with the cruiser.
Also, in terms of added complexity, the Redarc setup is very well regarded by Australian overlanders - it is two little boxes (the BCDC and SBI), and some cable and fuses. I expect my experience to be similar to theirs. Also, if I unplug the cables leading to the primary battery, it will look just like yours, I will still have a group 31 main battery that I can charge with a plug in charger or my portable solar panel.
An old pic:
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CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #27
Closing the loop:
I went with the only option that had a local supplier: Odyssey. They had the group 31 in stock, and got me the group 35 quickly. As a side note, they supply a lot of ambulance and fire services, so that may be a hint for others looking for them in less urban areas.
Specifically, I got the:
31-PC2150T
35-PC1400
Despite the guidance of how easy it is to make a diode to replace the alt-s fuse, I chickened out and got the HKB diode. It works as advertised, bumping up the alternator output.
I used Slee primary and secondary trays, and Redarc BCDC, SBI, and in-line fuses. I hacked together a plate to mount the Redarc bcdc from scrap plate aluminum I had in the garage (note to self: one of these days I need to make or buy a brake for making small brackets like this). I made the wires to length with supplies from Amazon and a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper (I may redo some of them later, because mild ocd).
I went with the only option that had a local supplier: Odyssey. They had the group 31 in stock, and got me the group 35 quickly. As a side note, they supply a lot of ambulance and fire services, so that may be a hint for others looking for them in less urban areas.
Specifically, I got the:
31-PC2150T
35-PC1400
Despite the guidance of how easy it is to make a diode to replace the alt-s fuse, I chickened out and got the HKB diode. It works as advertised, bumping up the alternator output.
I used Slee primary and secondary trays, and Redarc BCDC, SBI, and in-line fuses. I hacked together a plate to mount the Redarc bcdc from scrap plate aluminum I had in the garage (note to self: one of these days I need to make or buy a brake for making small brackets like this). I made the wires to length with supplies from Amazon and a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper (I may redo some of them later, because mild ocd).
Just Curious, is the BCDC rated for outside use? Everything I remember is it being called an in vehicle charger.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #29
I'm not an expert, but nearly every one I have ever seen in a land cruiser was installed in the engine bay.
I would have liked to install it much closer to the auxiliary battery, but this location worked out better for me. I can always relocate it later if necessary. I'd just need to make a different bracket.
From Redarc:
“Where do I mount my BCDC?” is a common question faced by our REDARC technical team.
While there is not one correct answer, below are some objectives to take into consideration when choosing the right mounting location for the individual vehicle and requirements.
For the best charging performance the BCDC should be installed as close as possible to the auxiliary battery/batteries as possible.
While we recommend to install the BCDC less than 1 meter away from the battery that is being charged, it may not be the most practical solution.
REDARC’s recommendations of the BCDC in close proximity to the auxiliary battery being charged, is to minimise voltage between the unit and auxiliary battery.
If distance between the BCDC and the auxiliary battery cannot be avoided, then bigger size wiring/cable must be used so maximum charge voltage can reach the auxiliary battery.
If the auxiliary battery is mounted in the engine bay, then the BCDC should be mounted away from direct engine heat.
The REDARC BCDC 3 stage battery chargers will work to full capacity up to 55°C ambient temperatures, then start to de-rate (reduce charge rate) up to a maximum of 80°C, with the current reducing to zero at around 85°C.
This is to protect the internal electronics of the BCDC and to provide some protection to the battery, because charging at high temperatures can risk damaging some types of batteries.
REDARC strongly advises to check the battery manufacturer’s specifications for charging voltage and installation locations of the particular battery being selected.
The BCDC range can certainly be used for charging under-bonnet auxiliary batteries, but a suitable location must be identified. For example:
behind headlights,on the inner guardBetween the front grille and radiator.
These are all better mounting locations than installing the unit right next to the exhaust/turbo. The above locations will ensure adequate airflow over the unit, there by aiding in the cooling of the unit.
The BCDC’s heatsink has been engineered to dissipate its own heat but added cooling of the unit can be achieved by mounting it to a metal surface.
Ultimately, for optimum performance:
Away from direct engine heatClose to the auxiliary batteryEnsure correct fusing and cable size
I would have liked to install it much closer to the auxiliary battery, but this location worked out better for me. I can always relocate it later if necessary. I'd just need to make a different bracket.
From Redarc:
“Where do I mount my BCDC?” is a common question faced by our REDARC technical team.
While there is not one correct answer, below are some objectives to take into consideration when choosing the right mounting location for the individual vehicle and requirements.
For the best charging performance the BCDC should be installed as close as possible to the auxiliary battery/batteries as possible.
While we recommend to install the BCDC less than 1 meter away from the battery that is being charged, it may not be the most practical solution.
REDARC’s recommendations of the BCDC in close proximity to the auxiliary battery being charged, is to minimise voltage between the unit and auxiliary battery.
If distance between the BCDC and the auxiliary battery cannot be avoided, then bigger size wiring/cable must be used so maximum charge voltage can reach the auxiliary battery.
If the auxiliary battery is mounted in the engine bay, then the BCDC should be mounted away from direct engine heat.
The REDARC BCDC 3 stage battery chargers will work to full capacity up to 55°C ambient temperatures, then start to de-rate (reduce charge rate) up to a maximum of 80°C, with the current reducing to zero at around 85°C.
This is to protect the internal electronics of the BCDC and to provide some protection to the battery, because charging at high temperatures can risk damaging some types of batteries.
REDARC strongly advises to check the battery manufacturer’s specifications for charging voltage and installation locations of the particular battery being selected.
The BCDC range can certainly be used for charging under-bonnet auxiliary batteries, but a suitable location must be identified. For example:
behind headlights,on the inner guardBetween the front grille and radiator.
These are all better mounting locations than installing the unit right next to the exhaust/turbo. The above locations will ensure adequate airflow over the unit, there by aiding in the cooling of the unit.
The BCDC’s heatsink has been engineered to dissipate its own heat but added cooling of the unit can be achieved by mounting it to a metal surface.
Ultimately, for optimum performance:
Away from direct engine heatClose to the auxiliary batteryEnsure correct fusing and cable size
RobW0
GOLD Star
The BCDC will work fine under the hood. Best in the front of the engine bay rather than by the fire wall were it would get hotter. The only time I have had mine not work because of temperature was when it was to cold. It will not work below 14F. Once the engine was running for a bit it warmed up above 14 in there and it was happy again and started working. If you want to use the Manager30, it need to be in the cabin of the car where it is cooler.
edit: 14F not -14F
I did not know much and started looking through youtube, kings does a few videos on dual battery setups, and even detailed videos of their products, they go through them pretty well that you can actually make alot of the stuff excluding the dc/dc charger. Either way the series of videos was kind of a crash course for me. Just type in “kings dual battery”
Many of the Australian rigs that do this stuff have their aux battery with associated electronics installed in the cab. Not my favorite idea as it takes a lot of space. Part of it is due the AGMs dislike for heat. I would caution the use of a voltage booster diode for an AGM that is mounted underhood, as elevated temperatures should have compensation with reduced voltage to avoid the chance of boiling the battery.
Here you go:
Here you go:
Off-topic, but do you have any sort of build thread for the NoBo trailer? That's one of the 10.5 or 10.6 models, right? How do you like it? How well does it hold up off-road and on FSRs? Would love to hear any and all feedback!
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #35
Yes, it is a NoBo 10.6.
We just picked it up in the fall (msrp is stupid, but we got a smoking end of season deal), and took it out once before the weather got too cold to be fun, so it is too soon for a thorough report. We have big plans for it going forward.
It works really well for our family of four (two adults, two kids). The adults sleep inside, and the kids sleep up above. We will bring a ground tent too, but I doubt it'll get much use. The two things we enjoyed the most were the 270 degree batwing awning and the slide out with fridge and stove.
We've had a couple of bigger campers, and decided that we didn't care for that as much. We have done a lot of tent camping over the years, and while we loved it, I'm not getting any younger. I'm not enjoying sleeping in a tent as much as I used to, so getting up off the ground is terrific. Another advantage of a trailer is that it can be kept loaded with everything neatly in bins, ready to hook up and go at a moment's notice.
Durability and ruggedness are TBD. I honestly don't have high hopes - trailer construction across the RV industry seems to be shoddy in general... But the form factor is ideal for what we do, so I'm going to give it a chance. I looked into a couple of custom builds, but the costs and timelines were insane.
We just picked it up in the fall (msrp is stupid, but we got a smoking end of season deal), and took it out once before the weather got too cold to be fun, so it is too soon for a thorough report. We have big plans for it going forward.
It works really well for our family of four (two adults, two kids). The adults sleep inside, and the kids sleep up above. We will bring a ground tent too, but I doubt it'll get much use. The two things we enjoyed the most were the 270 degree batwing awning and the slide out with fridge and stove.
We've had a couple of bigger campers, and decided that we didn't care for that as much. We have done a lot of tent camping over the years, and while we loved it, I'm not getting any younger. I'm not enjoying sleeping in a tent as much as I used to, so getting up off the ground is terrific. Another advantage of a trailer is that it can be kept loaded with everything neatly in bins, ready to hook up and go at a moment's notice.
Durability and ruggedness are TBD. I honestly don't have high hopes - trailer construction across the RV industry seems to be shoddy in general... But the form factor is ideal for what we do, so I'm going to give it a chance. I looked into a couple of custom builds, but the costs and timelines were insane.
@CharlieS congrats for not succumbing to paralysis by analysis! For those folks that stumble across this thread looking for answers to the dual battery question, National Luna has further muddied the waters when it comes to a clear-cut solution. This article from NL presents some very interesting details and research for consideration.
www.nationalluna.com
I do appreciate the fact they add the disclaimer that the arrival of the 40A DC-DC units may change overturn their conclusion. I find that very honest of them.
Why it took National Luna 10 years to launch a DC-DC dual-battery system - National Luna - South Africa
BEHIND THE TIMES We’ve heard the gossip… “National Luna is behind the times. National Luna is stuck in the past. National Luna uses old technology.” Admittedly, there is some truth in these statements, but there’s more to the story than meets the eye… WHY WE STUCK WITH THE OLD-FAITHFUL SOLENOID...
I do appreciate the fact they add the disclaimer that the arrival of the 40A DC-DC units may change overturn their conclusion. I find that very honest of them.
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Thanks for the feedback!
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #39
Roof mounted chain gun, surface to air missiles, radar tracking system, you know, the usual.
Nope, not really - nothing exciting, just a bunch of auxiliary LED lighting, arb compressor, and the occasional fridge (most of the time I'll use the one in the camper though). A primary goal is for self jump starting in remote areas. I may run a winch someday, but haven't really found a need for one yet - I am looking for an excuse to get one though...
PS. Odyssey customer service told me that the diode won't boil anything. They said 14.4v is fine, and 14.7v would be ideal. I'm only getting 14.1v to 14.3v according to my OBD Fusion app.
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RET2
SILVER Star
Just playing devil advocate here but if jump starting is a primary wouldn't a NOCO type appliance do the job? Much simpler than a full blown dual battery setup? Dual batteries are a rabbit hole if not managed correctly, luck not withstanding. Disclaimer, I have a dual setup but given the advancements in solar and battery boosters I would seriously rethink my choice.
