Saturday 1-1-11 Devil's Canyon/Easter Island

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Tools R Us said:
I understand.:o



Why, I enjoyed it more the second time, maybe the memory thing......
Click to expand...
Don't cross it off, its too nice not to run again. It needs lots of exploring out there. We can write our own maps with enough time and fuel. I'm game. I can't plot much right now, as my GPS died on the Elvis run. I have been working with Richard Reitz, the Globe District Ranger, on some OHVA stuff. I can contact him if you think it would do any good to discuss mapping/trials, etc. What is the FR number for the road we entered from the US 60? I was going to tell him the gate is missing the latch. That old rope on there may be hold it much longer. I could also volunteer our services to work on projects if members are interested in gaining some brownie points with FS. He really seemed pretty open to the volunteer idea when I talked with him in December. That area has HUGE potential. John
 
If I recall the white exit road is Pinto Valley Road where it crosses the US 60. My guess on time back to the highway from Government Springs would be about 3.5 hours if all went well.
 
My Dad and a couple hunting buddies went to scout unit 37B for the upcoming Javelina hunt we got drawn for. We went in Mineral Mountain Road, checked several side roads, glassed the hill sides, then ended up exiting Cottonwood Camp Rd.

Along the way we saw some sights: A Huge Windmill with the "Chicago Aeromotor co" marked wind vane, petroglyphs, and the old house in the wash near the ranchers property. unfortunately someone has shot a hole about a foot up from the water silo near the old house and it is spurting out of the bottom. The rancher still uses it because you can hear the electric pump still pumping from the well to fill it. Dont get me started on irresponsible slobs...:mad:. Anyway, saw some tracks near some mud puddles but no Javelinas themselves. Im sure we overlooked some - they look like rocks if your driving by and theyre not moving.

All in all a great day!
11aa.webp
11a.webp
11ac.webp
 
Last edited:
Something that was interesting. We came around a corner near the bottom of a wash and the road was blocked with some pink tape and som handmade signs on it. We went around and saw it was blocked becasue there was a 4 foot wide hole in the road.

Upon closer inspection, the hole was bowl shaped underneath and we were peeking into the small opening at the top. It was about 10 feet deep with water at the bottom. When you walk up the first time and realize the small cavern reaches out to extend under your feet when you step up close initially, it gave me an uneasy feeling! It would not be good to have a truck/motorcycle land in that hole...

I dont think it was an abandoned mine shaft(?) It seemed to shallow under the ground and wondered if it was from an underwater stream that caved in?
11ad.webp
 
murf said:
...We went in Mineral Mountain Road, checked several side roads, glassed the hill sides, then ended up exiting Cottonwood Camp Rd....
Click to expand...

Wrong thread, or wrong map. Going in Mineral Mountain road, and running Devil's Canyon would take some effort... ;)
 
Last edited:
wrong thread. So many posted runs, grabbed the wrong one - oh well. Not worth moving at this point
 
Tools R Us said:
...In my discussion with the rancher, showed him the Tonto map, his reply was: Throw that thing away, the forest service doesn't have a clue about the roads out here, that thing will get you lost and/or in trouble! Nobody has accurately mapped this area, the best way to find what is here is to come out and explore. He gave a couple of brief hint to roads that come out in the Top of the World and Ray mine areas.

This agrees with our experience. Part of the trail we ran isn't on any map that I have found. In one section my PC map in the truck shows zero roads, jeep trails, pack trails, etc, on the entire screen, according to it we are in the middle of nowhere. Yet we are on a "road" and there are other "roads" that are visible on the ridges, but not on the map.
Click to expand...

I agree FS paper maps suck, but have you been here?

GSTC Clearinghouse > States & Territories

I'm no map expert, but it appears they've taken the underlying (and updated) USGS 7.5 min quads, and overlaid MUCH better road data than either the FS paper maps or USGS topos have... I use them for hiking with the Scouts, but haven't taken the time to see if they could be integrated into better GPS-enabled applications, though I'm sure someone with enough GPS software skills could do it.

edit: resolution is horrible here in this snippet I cut from a full-scale 1:24.000 map that includes Government Springs, but if you open the .tif's in photoshop or similar, you can zoom in on the area you want with good detail. This map (and the one below it on the website) clearly show FR2, FR899, and many, many other numbered and un-numbered roads (some marked 4WD, some only marked as dashed lines) all the way from the 60, through Government Springs and down Dripping Springs wash. This map was updated in 2001, the one due south updated in June 2007. Combine that with some aerial overlay pictures in TopoUSA on the GPS, and you'd have good topo, visual, and GPS references. These maps show the roads the rancher may have been talking about from Government Springs into the Ray mine, going through Rustler Gulch via the Monitor Mine. I pulled maps 33071052 and 33151052. Those cover the 60 south to the 77 via Dripping Springs. With my luck though, I'd go 10 miles of 4WD road and hit a locked gate. That's where it's great to have the local knowledge :lol:. Just wanted to point out this source of excellent updated FS maps. Wish there was an equivalent for BLM and other federally owned land, as these stop at the NF boundaries and even some USGS maps are getting dated :frown:. When I use paper maps for hiking, I zoom in on an area, then print the mutha out in a 3x3 poster size (approx 24" x 30" when glued together) on my printer so my solidly-middle-aged eyes can actually read the thing...
government-springs.webp
 
Last edited:
That's all very cool, but just as clarification:

We found the FR2 turnoff; the map wasn't the problem, neither was the resolution of the map, nor the visual acuity of the persons reading the map. We questioned whether FR2 was passable, considering how narrow the brush was in Lyon's Wash, Kevin's report on driving it up a little bit, the fact that we had a stock truck in our group, and the late hour of the day (aka the "3:30 rule"). The 40 fit thru the brush just fine...

We've done the exit via FR899 last year. I closed the gate at the ranch myself. We didn't want to go out FR899 this time, given the elevation involved, and the winter conditions likely to impede travel up in the mountains.

Blue track on the map: 2011 trip; exit via Dripping Springs road. Red track: 2010 trip; exit via FR899.
Picture 15.webp
 
Last edited:
Will have a better look, but a brief peak nets no new data, looks the same as the rest.

I went a ways on the trail where the blue line is, OK road, turns to the west and appears to end at a spring? Fought my up FR2 about as far as marked by red. Thought it was just overgrown in the wash, the further I went, the worse it got, sharp wash edges, hasn't been driven in a long time, abandoned in place.

About where I put the green line, is a newer road, not on the map. It is hinted to split, one branch going to 60, the other connecting to FR899 past the ranch. Apparently it is used locally as a replacement for FR2 and to bypass the ranch.

This brings up a good question. What is the qualification for deciding what roads are on the travel management plans? In this case it looks like someone was given a map and highlighters, told to reduce the number of roads, without evaluating the actual roads on the ground.

The only access to the area on the travel management plan is FR2 (abandoned in place) and FR899 (literary goes through the rancher's front yard). At this point FR2 is impassable, so this "plan" puts all traffic in the area through one guys front yard, complete with signed gates, barking dogs, etc. IMHO not a very good "plan", more like rude. Especially being that there appears to be roads that are in better condition, more often used and don't disturb the residents. My guess is the "planners" are ignorant to actual road conditions, travel routes that are actually being used, have not evaluated what is on the ground?:confused::o:mad:
government-springs_1.webp
 
Tools R Us said:
The only access to the area on the travel management plan is FR2 (abandoned in place) and FR899 (literary goes through the rancher's front yard). At this point FR2 is impassable, so this "plan" puts all traffic in the area through one guys front yard, complete with signed gates, barking dogs, etc. IMHO not a very good "plan", more like rude. Especially being that there appears to be roads that are in better condition, more often used and don't disturb the residents. My guess is the "planners" are ignorant to actual road conditions, travel routes that are actually being used, have not evaluated what is on the ground?:confused::o:mad:
Click to expand...

why do you hate gubmint agencies :confused:

:doh:
 
ChaseTruck said:
green route as alternative - but goes to Fr899?
Click to expand...

Hinted at a route that branched/forked, one bypassed the ranch and the other went out to 60 to the north. My take was, it is the road that we saw at the start of FR2.
 
re_guderian said:
I agree FS paper maps suck, but have you been here?

GSTC Clearinghouse > States & Territories

I'm no map expert, but it appears they've taken the underlying (and updated) USGS 7.5 min quads, and overlaid MUCH better road data than either the FS paper maps or USGS topos have... I use them for hiking with the Scouts, but haven't taken the time to see if they could be integrated into better GPS-enabled applications, though I'm sure someone with enough GPS software skills could do it.

edit: resolution is horrible here in this snippet I cut from a full-scale 1:24.000 map that includes Government Springs, but if you open the .tif's in photoshop or similar, you can zoom in on the area you want with good detail. This map (and the one below it on the website) clearly show FR2, FR899, and many, many other numbered and un-numbered roads (some marked 4WD, some only marked as dashed lines) all the way from the 60, through Government Springs and down Dripping Springs wash. This map was updated in 2001, the one due south updated in June 2007. Combine that with some aerial overlay pictures in TopoUSA on the GPS, and you'd have good topo, visual, and GPS references. These maps show the roads the rancher may have been talking about from Government Springs into the Ray mine, going through Rustler Gulch via the Monitor Mine. I pulled maps 33071052 and 33151052. Those cover the 60 south to the 77 via Dripping Springs. With my luck though, I'd go 10 miles of 4WD road and hit a locked gate. That's where it's great to have the local knowledge :lol:. Just wanted to point out this source of excellent updated FS maps. Wish there was an equivalent for BLM and other federally owned land, as these stop at the NF boundaries and even some USGS maps are getting dated :frown:. When I use paper maps for hiking, I zoom in on an area, then print the mutha out in a 3x3 poster size (approx 24" x 30" when glued together) on my printer so my solidly-middle-aged eyes can actually read the thing...
Click to expand...


I looked at the area on Garmin topo, Topo USA, National Geographic Topo, and the 1996 Tonto FS map. They all show different roads some plus some minus:confused: Maybe better off with Google earth overlay.
 
LandCruiserPhil said:
I looked at the area on Garmin topo, Topo USA, National Geographic Topo, and the 1996 Tonto FS map. They all show different roads some plus some minus:confused: Maybe better off with Google earth overlay.
Click to expand...

Yeah the trick is to download enough info ahead of time...
 
re_guderian said:
Yeah the trick is to download enough info ahead of time...
Click to expand...

HI-JACK:flipoff2:

Where are you finding 2007 USGS updated maps? I have options of 1991 and 2004 for Pinal Ranch in PDF is the best I can find. It would be nice to find in TIF format so there is no need to convert my PDFs to get into OZ Explorer. CAn you pan TIF files when looking?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom