Sand Ladders, its a good item to buy it? (1 Viewer)

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I am still struggling with the notion of what is fine sand...
I have been a lot in sand in the US Western States and never got stuck. Yes, progression forward impeded many times while playing on steep slopes, but always could back down again in reverse.
Now, this was not talcum kind of sand, was coarser than that, admittedly.
So, I can't talk about the real real fine talcum powder kind of deep sand -if there is such thing out there, if so please describe, I'm interested- but for "normal" sand, I can't see a sand ladder being too essential.

But, I really support the notion that you don't air down all the way from the beginning, keep a bit more airing down in reserve you get you out of predicaments!
 
this might be a stupid question, but i do not own a set of ladders and dont know any one who does. i also spend a lot of time in the desert and sand, but its mostly beach sand which changes consistency a lot. heres the question, once you get the ladders in place and you finally get rolling in the sand sand, how do you recover the ladders without stopping and getting stuck again? is it a two person job where one grabs the ladders and runs to jump in? i just have this picture in my mind of having to use them over and over again until firmer sand is reached. i dont know, like i said ive never used them or seen them in action.

tether them to the rear bumper and drag them along...
 
So, I can't talk about the real real fine talcum powder kind of deep sand -if there is such thing out there, if so please describe, I'm interested.....


find someone who has raced dakar and ask them about fesh-fesh...
 
Just got stuck on the beach again tonight (you'd think I'd learn). Wish I'd had sand ladders, although to be fair the bits of plywood I had worked well. I aired down to like 15 and nothing happened until I used the plywood... my truck is quite heavily loaded so that could be why. Its true you can use lots of different things for sand... it's bridging where you really need ladders. Then again, if I hadn't had the plywood I might have been SOL...
 
It was my understanding that tall skinny tires were best in the desert.

check out ihanna.com ... those guys used their waffle boards and sand ladders a LOT. When you need em you need em. I think it's true though that most people will never need them and should not bother carrying them around... they're a tool for those who are frequently on rough/loose terrain in the middle of nowhere with no help. Weekend wheelers really probably don't need to bother with them, as they're likely in a convoy and can go home at the end of the day.

the thing this with tall thin tires is that they are super for gas economy - but when in sand they act something like knives, cutting into sand...which is bad - the idea is to create as much surface area as possible [read: fat tires] - kind of like snowshoes, thus distributing the weight of your ride to as much ground as possible...this is also the reason for airing down your tire pressure - as the more you do, the less pressure you put on the sand per square inch...ideally for sand you would want as little as possible - hook yourself up with some of these bad boys and you'd be applying something like 1psi......
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Yeah I understand the principal of spreading the weight, but I had been told that the reason the old school military desert landrovers had used tall thin tires was to cut through the loose sand on the top, and get down to the packed down deeper layers where they could get more grip instead of spinning on the surface.
 
Yeah I understand the principal of spreading the weight, but I had been told that the reason the old school military desert landrovers had used tall thin tires was to cut through the loose sand on the top, and get down to the packed down deeper layers where they could get more grip instead of spinning on the surface.

That only works till you get to the really deep soft sand, then you have back up and route around... Same principal works in mud.
 
shame macey - you've obviously made an unwise investment....

Yep, I have never sen a situation where sand ladders made a difference that airing down would not have.

;)
 
Interesting discussion. I agree that sand ladders are probably not necessary for the average US weekend wheeler. My opinion is that an expedition rig should carry bridging ladders which of course can double as sand ladders. For a 7500 lb rig with overhanging bumpers and a minimal lift, there are times when a bridging ladder could help you through a section that would be a piece of cake for a lighter, more lifted, better approach/departure angle type rig.

As for sand types, I have been to many Western US sand dune areas and beaches, and I'd say our sand is pretty easy to deal with. A few years ago I was traveling in Egypt and was out near the Libyan border in a place they call the "Great Sand Sea" (part of the Sahara) and there were places where walking barefoot on that sand I was sinking to my ankles. I've never seen anything like it in the states. That's the kind of sand you can get stuck in and that's the kind of sand where you definately want wide tires because there's no frim surface below. However, there were other places where the sand was so firm you could ride a bike on it. The changes in consistency probably have something to do with wind loading.

Anyway, if you're driving across Africa as I plan to do, it seems like it would make sense to carry sand ladders (or for me, bridging ladders) just in case. After all, if you're truly in the middle of nowhere, by yourself, with nothing for hundreds of miles in any direction, I can assure you that you don't want to get stuck and be sitting there cursing the day you decided that you didn't need sand ladders.

As for how to use them on the back tires (and recover them): tie 15 ft of rope to the front, outside of the sand ladder. Tie the other end to a tow loop on the outside of your bumper. Run the middle of the rope out away from the car to ensure that the tire will never roll over the rope - you don't need it wrapped around your axle, pinching brake lines. Do the same for the other side. You probably would benefit from lifting the tires and setting them back on the ladders. Now drive with your ladders in tow until you reach firm ground.

Ok, so after all that, anyone know where to get those nifty fiberglass waffleboards that can be bridging and sand ladders? I mean get them cheaply?
 
there's a few sites that sell waffles (google waffles, 4x4, landrover?), but I understand they're just rebranding them and selling em at a premium... they have a real life purpose that's not for 4x4ing, my advice would be to find out what that is and buy them from the appropriate supplier at much lower cost
 
As another option, how about using this: a hard plastic/nylon composite material used as poultry/kennel flooring. The pieces come in 2’ x 4’ sheets, and cost about $12 a piece. http://www.farmtek.com

I happen to use this a the flooring for my roof rack, but it I think it would be solid enough to be used as sand ladders...although they would be proned to flex...
 
just go to the farmtek site and search for PolyMax or flooring
they are almost $20/sheet now... still seems very reasonable. I'm going to see if I can find them down here for use on my roofrack. Would be nice to remove the rusty expanded metal and maybe lighten the load at the same time.

My thoughts on sand ladders are that they must work better than sticks and carpeting. They just have to. So if you find yourself in an area where you get stuck not-infrequently in muddy/sandy conditions, ladders might make sense. Otherwise, don't waste your $$ on 'em.

Incidentally: something to keep in mind on the air-down vs. sand ladder "debate": if you are truly out in the sticks and only find a little loose sand/mud, it might be a lot easier to use ladders than it is to air down then have to air up again for the road.

At the end of it all, sand ladders are like most other modifications in that if you have to ask "do I need it?" then the answer is probably "No. You don't need it."
 
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heres my take, sand ladders make self extraction easier and quicker, for those who are touring with time being a factor in distance sometimes, i'd say they are a good investment. for most of us a little time and effort is no biggie.
 
Why dont you just get the sand ladders then.
 
I have two steel landing mats. I have used them as ramps, and to get extra traction in soft ash at the Lost Forest, Oregon. :cheers:

So would these steal ones (or even the aluminum ones) be able to take the weight of a cruiser should you wish to span over say an unpassable crack?

Edit, opps, just watched the video of the testing, looks like the steal and aluminum ones worked pretty good for everything.
 
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I went down to the local recovery yard (Recycled s***e) and found some plastic grate type stuff. I cut it into two sections 30cm x 120cm. It's made out of heavy duty nylon like maxtrax. Cost about 5 bucks. I havent had to use it yet but it should work I reckon. I'll post a pick when I remember.

I have also heard that shade cloth is good for sand recoveries. cheap and compact too.
ARB have just brought out their version of maxtrax. Cost half the price of the maxtrax but didn't look as grippy.
 
I am still struggling with the notion of what is fine sand...
I have been a lot in sand in the US Western States and never got stuck. Yes, progression forward impeded many times while playing on steep slopes, but always could back down again in reverse.
Now, this was not talcum kind of sand, was coarser than that, admittedly.
So, I can't talk about the real real fine talcum powder kind of deep sand -if there is such thing out there, if so please describe, I'm interested- but for "normal" sand, I can't see a sand ladder being too essential.

But, I really support the notion that you don't air down all the way from the beginning, keep a bit more airing down in reserve you get you out of predicaments!

I'm not so sure of its the size of the sand particles,but more the shape.
Some sand particles are angular which packs down and the really treacherous stuff is rounded.

Once I was involved in a concrete pour about a 500 metres from the road.
The only way to get the concrete there was to use an 80 series with a tandem trailer and 2x75 series with traybacks.
We filled the trailer and both 75s with concrete to the very top,but they just spun even with about 15-20 psi.
Ended up going down to about 8 psi just to get them moving.

Ive never seen landcruisers working so hard,spinning their tyres in 35c heat all the way and then returning for another load .
Im sure it was the rounded typesand that made it so difficult even allowing for 1500kgs of wet concrete on each vehicle.
 

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