Same same but different - 33’s vs 35’s (1 Viewer)

[Tools R Us]

Are you wanting to wheel this thing, or look cool for your friends in the mall parking lot? I’ve always felt guys running “stupid big” Tires we’re compensating for their lack of size elsewhere! With the Land Cruiser being such a dog.... stick with 33’s. People used to justify 35’s to stay out of the ruts guys left with their 35’s-37’s, but now them guys are on 40+, so a 33 is going to get swallowed in the ruts just as quick as a 35. Plus, like others have said..... unnecessary strain running bigger Tires, not to mention gas mileage going “toes up”. But, if you want to look cute... get them 35’s and don’t forget the Armor All before you head to the mall!

Allow me to extend an invite to cruise out west and sample some of our "malls". My prediction; I will get better MPG (37"s and stock gears) and be faster on the way to the mall. Most of the local "mall friends" are impressed by carnage and stuck-age, you are likely to be a big hit!

If you want to impress, nothing wrong with that, just check the sig lines of exhibition "wheeler" guys, get the tires that will do the job. For car camping/exhibition "wheeling", just about any tire will do. For actual wheeling, best to talk to others who wheel the local malls to see what they recommend. But generally speaking, bigger tires will make a more capable rig. Ignore the Mud-FUD.

 

[jaymar]

In your experience is the stress significant, or just more Mud-FUD?

Slower to accelerate, longer to brake, greater stress on all related components. Things will wear faster, best case. Worst-case, something fails in heavy or extreme use that otherwise wouldn't have. That's when you realize it was significant. Now, what does that mean? That depends. If losing the ability to drive out means you die, that's a problem. If it means a buddy tows you out, not so much. Hard-core over landers tend to be a cautious bunch.

 

[Marine7]

Allow me to extend an invite to cruise out west and sample some of our "malls". My prediction; I will get better MPG (37"s and stock gears) and be faster on the way to the mall. Most of the local "mall friends" are impressed by carnage and stuck-age, you are likely to be a big hit!

If you want to impress, nothing wrong with that, just check the sig lines of exhibition "wheeler" guys, get the tires that will do the job. For car camping/exhibition "wheeling", just about any tire will do. For actual wheeling, best to talk to others who wheel the local malls to see what they recommend. But generally speaking, bigger tires will make a more capable rig. Ignore the Mud-FUD.

“Bigger Tires will make a more capable rig” lol..... maybe if your going from 265’s to 37’s or so. How much more capable are 35’s over 33’s? Not much! Like stated earlier.... the majority of the trailered in rigs are on 40”+ rubber....33’s and 35’s as well as 37’s are going to be swallowed in their ruts! Hell.... I’ll probably go to 35’s this year.... for the “look” not because I’m going to gain super hero abilities with all that extra rubber!
Run what ya brung.... or whatever floats your boat. But I tend to not give a s*** about what anyone thinks of me or my ride, as long as I know what it will do. And as far as the Land Cruisers go..... regardless of year.... they are already under-powered, so I can’t see handicapping them further with big rubber if it’s not needed.

 

[Tools R Us]

Slower to accelerate, longer to brake,...

So your saying a lifted rig with bigger tires will handle differently than stock, fantastic insight!

... greater stress on all related components. Things will wear faster, best case. Worst-case, something fails in heavy or extreme use that otherwise wouldn't have. That's when you realize it was significant. Now, what does that mean? That depends. If losing the ability to drive out means you die, that's a problem. If it means a buddy tows you out, not so much. Hard-core over landers tend to be a cautious bunch.

So, no experience, just parroted FUD?

We work on a bunch of 37" tire rigs that get wheeled, most relatively aggressively and often. An example would be mine, the 37"s went on in 2006, at ~60K mi, now has ~230K, has been known to do 100+ trail days a year. None of the major parts, other than the head, have ever be taken off of the rig, including the diffs.

Had a stud problem on the right knuckle shortly after putting the 37"s on, then that side birf started clicking, likely from not understanding the importance of maintaining grease level, replaced it with a used birf, so have been into that knuckle twice. Recently resealed the left knuckle for the first time. Three of the rotors, all wheel bearings, hubs, spindles, knuckles, calipers, etc, are original factory to the rig.

Because of the Forest work that we do, it is often in very remote places, sometimes there isn't really a trail, commonly don't see any sign of anyone but our group. It has rarely had any issues, all minor, heater valve, etc, has NEVER been towed due to breakage, street or trail. In the almost decade of doing this, I only recall one time where we had to leave a rig and return with parts. Car camper types maybe cautious, but almost none push the rigs hard enough to have any idea of how durable or capable they are, or what is really needed to keep them going.

 

[Tools R Us]

“Bigger Tires will make a more capable rig” lol.....

The facts are; bigger tires, improve all angles, approach, break over, departure, increase under axle and most other clearance, roll obstacles easier, etc, so yes, more capable.

... maybe if your going from 265’s to 37’s or so. How much more capable are 35’s over 33’s? Not much! Like stated earlier.... the majority of the trailered in rigs are on 40”+ rubber....33’s and 35’s as well as 37’s are going to be swallowed in their ruts! Hell.... I’ll probably go to 35’s this year.... for the “look” not because I’m going to gain super hero abilities with all that extra rubber!
Run what ya brung.... or whatever floats your boat. But I tend to not give a s*** about what anyone thinks of me or my ride, as long as I know what it will do. And as far as the Land Cruisers go..... regardless of year.... they are already under-powered, so I can’t see handicapping them further with big rubber if it’s not needed.

Its great that your setup works for what you do, agree with; run what works for you. However, that is no indicator that others don't use their rigs in a way that bigger tires are an advantage or needed.

Several of us in our group are professionally trained/certified in OHV trail building, management and maintenance. It's common to spend time with agency (Forest, BLM, etc) engineers, 'olgists, etc. Most have the ingrained opinion that those big tire rigs destroy the lands. It's amusing to put then in the rig, watch them observe and come to the conclusion that they were wrong. After observing a variety of rigs on the trail, most come to the conclusion that the bigger tire rigs have better traction, spin tires and dig holes less, clear obstacles easier with less rig to ground contact, in other words, are significantly easier on the environment.

Where I wheel, these are indicators of a capable rig. You may not use your rig in a way to realize the advantage, but your experience doesn't necessarily apply to others. You may find it hard to believe, but some of us spend the big $$$$ on tires for more than to compensate for small dicks.

PS, most of the 40" tire rigs that I wheel with, don't ride on trailers, not everywhere is like the east coast!

 

[80t0ylc]

..... I will get better MPG (37"s and stock gears) and be faster on the way to the mall.....

Possible if torque & H.P. from stock engine were unlimited, but we all know that's not true...lol

...... But generally speaking, bigger tires will make a more capable rig. Ignore the Mud-FUD.

Only for off road performance, but us "Car camper types" utilize our rigs a little different than, maybe you might imagine. BTW....wtf is "Mud-FUD"

.....Car camper types maybe cautious, but almost none push the rigs hard enough to have any idea of how durable or capable they are, or what is really needed to keep them going.

You couldn't be more wrong with this statement, Kevin. Serious Overlanders or "Car camper types" as you call us use our 80 series closer, for what it was really designed for, than most 80 owners....including rock or desert crawlers. Street performance is as much of a concern as off road performance to the overlander. And as far as durability & capability....we are constantly concerned with them, because a lot of the time we are hundreds - maybe thousands of miles from home.

 

[Qball]

Possible if torque & H.P. from stock engine were unlimited, but we all know that's not true...lol

Only for off road performance, but us "Car camper types" utilize our rigs a little different than, maybe you might imagine. BTW....wtf is "Mud-FUD"
You couldn't be more wrong with this statement, Kevin. Serious Overlanders or "Car camper types" as you call us use our 80 series closer, for what it was really designed for, than most 80 owners....including rock or desert crawlers. Street performance is as much of a concern as off road performance to the overlander. And as far as durability & capability....we are constantly concerned with them, because a lot of the time we are hundreds - maybe thousands of miles from home.

First of all I want to repectfully point out that you are arguing your theory to facts from one is the most experienced 80 owner and machanic on mud. He has more trail miles in one year than most of us would see in a life time. And in some of the most inhospitable and remote places in US.


Let’s talk theory:

Bigger tires doesn’t increase off road capability?

Wouldn’t that argument be against physics? 35 has 14% bigger contact patch so it will 14% more traction.

35 has 1 more inch of axle clearance, it may not sound like much but it is well over 10% improvement at the diff and makes a big difference when off-roading.

In soft stuff there is a certain contact area needed per amount weight to float and 35 seems to be the minuimum for the heavy girl to float even after aired down to 12 psi.



Bigger tire more stress: no one can argue physics but 35 doesn’t provide the amount of street to 80’s drivetrain as you think.

If you are running Dana 35 or a stock Jeep then 35 plus off-road is certain recipe for break down. 80s front diff is 8.5 inch and rear is 9.5 inch of high quality Japanese steel.

Fact: people on mud have been running 35s with no issues, just a testament to how well the 80 is built.

Fact: I do get Better highway mpg with 35 then when I was running 33, stock still got better but they were street tires.


I don’t race around so a little slower acceleration doesn’t bother me, my braking distant has t really changed after I went through my brake system plus it has more traction now so I don’t see braking is an issue at all.


Anyhow it sound like you put a lot of thoughts into but still haven’t truly experience the 80 as it could be. If you wheel just well with 33 only means where you wheel doesn’t need 35. Just give 35s a try and you wonder why didn’t you go with 35 to begins with. Like many I went from stock to 33 and 35, I honestly can’t really tell the difference between 33 and 35.


The downside of 35 is it will give you more confidence and you will want to try that harder line. Then you will want locker, then armor then......so if you really like car camping and back country roads then I highly recommend the true overland tall and skinny tires.

 

[jaymar]

So your saying a lifted rig with bigger tires will handle differently than stock, fantastic insight!

So, no experience, just parroted FUD?.

It is what it is, can’t change physics.

 

[Tools R Us]

Possible if torque & H.P. from stock engine were unlimited, but we all know that's not true...lol

What does unlimited torque & HP have to do with it? It doesn't take much to roll down the highway at 70mph. Mine does it easily, at ~2100rpm and according to the Ultra-Gauge, indicates ~17-18mph, when on the flat. The poster that I was replying to drives what is arguably the least efficient Cruiser ever made. Have traveled with my share of 3FE rigs and they have never been able to keep up on the highway, an have always taken more fuel when we arrived at the pump.

Only for off road performance, but us "Car camper types" utilize our rigs a little different than, maybe you might imagine. BTW....wtf is "Mud-FUD"

Agree, buying larger tires for better street performance would be a fail. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.

You couldn't be more wrong with this statement, Kevin. Serious Overlanders or "Car camper types" as you call us use our 80 series closer, for what it was really designed for, than most 80 owners....including rock or desert crawlers. Street performance is as much of a concern as off road performance to the overlander. And as far as durability & capability....we are constantly concerned with them, because a lot of the time we are hundreds - maybe thousands of miles from home.

Agree that the Cruiser is designed for travel over land, it doesn't make a very good boat, or at least I have been unsuccessful at making it float. So "you" are the only ones who maybe far from home and don't want to walk back, the rest of us don't care about reliability/durability? There would be a difference between being constantly concerned and having the experience, knowing what is needed?

 

[Technician1985]

So basically the 33 is:
Lighter, less unsprung weight by maybe 5lbs per tire
Smaller diameter so braking and accelerating is better
Puts the truck 1" lower so it handles better and is more aerodynamic on the road
Can be tucked in the stock spare tire location (easier to carry 2 spares)
Cheaper, marginally

And the 35:
Looks cooler
Is a little bit more capable over rocks and bad surfaces
Gives you more ground clearance

?

 

[80t0ylc]

What does unlimited torque & HP have to do with it? It doesn't take much to roll down the highway at 70mph. Mine does it easily, at ~2100rpm and according to the Ultra-Gauge, indicates ~17-18mph, when on the flat. The poster that I was replying to drives what is arguably the least efficient Cruiser ever made. Have traveled with my share of 3FE rigs and they have never been able to keep up on the highway, an have always taken more fuel when we arrived at the pump....

I'm assuming you mean 17-18 mpg - not mph... Anyway, exactly my point. If the 3FE and 1FZ engines were equal, mpg should be the same. You may run 70mph @ 2100 rpm on the flat, but any incline will require more skinny pedal to maintain speed than an 80 with proper gears for 37s. More skinny pedal = more fuel used and why the underpowered 3FE 80 uses more fuel when trying to keep up with the 1FZ 80s, tire size & vehicle weight being equal. Agree?

.......
Agree, buying larger tires for better street performance would be a fail. Fear, uncertainty and doubt.
....

Thanks for clarifing.

......Agree that the Cruiser is designed for travel over land, it doesn't make a very good boat, or at least I have been unsuccessful at making it float. So "you" are the only ones who maybe far from home and don't want to walk back, the rest of us don't care about reliability/durability? There would be a difference between being constantly concerned and having the experience, knowing what is needed?

I think we can agree that the 80 is an extremely robust rig as it came to us - stock. It's very evident that it does well in many catagories. Examples are abundant, especially here on mud. And from what I've seen here, you appear to be well versed on 80s. But not in all areas. Have you ever "overlanded" for an extended period of time? Judging from your attitude "camper types" - I think not. I've been an 80 owner for 20 years and I think I know what works well for me and my needs. BTW I run both 35s & 33s on my 80 for different needs. On the last overland run in Baja I had the 35s (315/75 R16) and they served me well, but not better than the 33s (255/85 R16) that I ran the previous year. Where the 35s were inferior was in snow (on the way home to Oregon) I think because of their width. I had done the same conditions before with the 33s with no problem, but running an unplowed highway, the 35s tend to wander and have stability issues. Both were A/T treads - But let's not talk tread type because this is a tire size thread. I've got some axle maintenance becoming necessary with the mileage. I plan to do some upgrades with gears & lockers at the same time to assist the 1FZ and off road traction. Lockers will improve overlanding off road performance & proper gearing will help all around performance.

 

[Tools R Us]

... Have you ever "overlanded" for an extended period of time? Judging from your attitude "camper types" - I think not. ...

Don't know what it has to do with the conversation, but, I have slept in my rig. The longest trips I have taken were ~10 days. I don't own any snow peak, north face or a 12v fridge, so likely not "overland", don't care, not a fan of categories, just a wheeler. Some of the woman folk that we like to travel with prefer in room plumbing, so often hotel it, also have access to government facilities, so indoor camping with shower and kitchen? Camping takes a lot of time and effort, carrying supplies, so often gets in the way of other projects, isn't worth the hassle, now rarely do it.

One of our projects that we have been challenged with, is inspecting all of the routes in Tonto, by their data that is ~4500 miles, in almost three million acres. It is highly varied, from graded to hardly any sign of a route, mostly don't know, have to be ready for anything. Have found very cool stuff, so the draw for long distance travel is greatly reduced, we are privileged to have fantastic stuff right in our own backyard.

Projects that we decide to do are also varied, signing, route building, repair, fire restoration, etc. So little permanent structure in the rig, has to accommodate loads from little, to solid packed, with like generator, jack hammers, etc, so not so much "overland" or whatever trendy name it's now called?

 

[AtlWagen]

try 255/85/16 I ran them on my 80 with 2.5 lift, tall and narrow, actually 34 inches tall about 10 inches wide, I ran toyo's but other brands make that size.. good luck...

picture, please... I'd like to see this setup

 

[chap79]

My likes the truck more on 37’s.
She’s even given me approval to buy another for her, as long as it’s on 37’s.

 

[bigredmachine]

Surprising that no-one suggested 35s still blow your head gasket

I guess that since its a known fact no one felt the need to mention it.

Waist size at high school graduation + the number of head gaskets you've replaced.

that's unfortunate, back to 31s for me



personally I like my 33 (285/75/16), they do what I need and they do it well.

33s no need to regear, spare still fits under the truck, pretty easy to find size even as a used tire, and didn't rub too much when I was still on the original saggy springs with no spacers.

 

[RAYJON]

picture, please... I'd like to see this setup

There are some here,

The Official Check in thread of SoCal 80s.

 

[half k cruiser]

Wouldn’t that argument be against physics? 35 has 14% bigger contact patch so it will 14% more traction.

I'm glad you mentioned this, while that makes sense, I recently read a pretty good article to the contrary. Essentially it was all about contact patch theory and wide vs skinny tires. I will see if I can find it and post a link, you can decide for yourself. Not that it really matters, I say run what you like best.

I'm glad I found this article as I've recently been debating the same thing. So after we got the wife moved over to a GX I've been driving her old 80 with 33's and stock height lift. The more I drive it, the more I prefer the experience. No downshifting on the highway, no extra noises, no wandering, and I can just hop right in.

My 97 on 315's and all of the extra armor is a dog on the highway. Plus the swingout's are annoying and overall I just feel like the rig is overbuilt for what I like to do with it. I have thought very seriously about dropping to a 2'' Dobinsons tapered coil and 285's, plus ditching some of the unnecessary weight like the rear swingout bumper and building a lower profile slider. I think this would make the overall driving experience a lot more enjoyable while only slightly compromising off road ability.

 

[80t0ylc]

picture, please... I'd like to see this setup

I run both 33s & 35s on a 2.5" OME lift. A couple of pics for comparison:
On (255/85 R16) 33s with an unmounted (315/75 R16) 35 for size comparison

About same view on 35s:

The 80's wheel wells seem to swallow up these two sizes with ease. 37s will also fit, but have not tried them yet

 

[weejub]

I'm digging the 305/70R16 BFG AT KO2's on the stock height LX we have. It drives so nice - tires feel so much better than previous stock sized Kumho tires. Would prefer the 285/75R16 so that the spare wouldn't hang down so low, though.

So much easier to get the 33's on the truck and move them around vs the 35's Prolly all mental, but seems like a lot more than 5 lbs.

 

[Qball]

I'm glad you mentioned this, while that makes sense, I recently read a pretty good article to the contrary. Essentially it was all about contact patch theory and wide vs skinny tires. I will see if I can find it and post a link, you can decide for yourself. Not that it really matters, I say run what you like best.

I'm glad I found this article as I've recently been debating the same thing. So after we got the wife moved over to a GX I've been driving her old 80 with 33's and stock height lift. The more I drive it, the more I prefer the experience. No downshifting on the highway, no extra noises, no wandering, and I can just hop right in.

My 97 on 315's and all of the extra armor is a dog on the highway. Plus the swingout's are annoying and overall I just feel like the rig is overbuilt for what I like to do with it. I have thought very seriously about dropping to a 2'' Dobinsons tapered coil and 285's, plus ditching some of the unnecessary weight like the rear swingout bumper and building a lower profile slider. I think this would make the overall driving experience a lot more enjoyable while only slightly compromising off road ability.

It is all about what you want and no doubt for on the road stock tires is even more better and still pretty darn good off-road, again which way do you want to make compromises. With 35 you are just more prepared for more challenging sections but sacrifice some on road performance. Most people don’t need 35s and I’ve seen stock street tires able to go over fairly technical stuff with ease. That being said if you gonna go 33 then might as well go 35, or just stick with a good stock sized AT tires.

Personally I too hate swaying out rear bumper but many people love them and looks more core.