Rust repair

[SteveH]

I think you're doing great - just keep putting spot welds between those that you have, and eventually, you'll be done. Then shine a very strong flashlight behind it (from inside the rear quarter panel) in a pitch-black garage, and look for voids and reweld. You will find many voids, but just weld/grind/weld until they are all gone.

When painted and bodywork is all done, grease the heck out of it from behind with lots of thick grease. You don't ever want water getting to the backside of your weld!

 

[NMfjCruiser]

I wasn't sure how much interest there would be in this thread, with the way LCs rust I thought it might have been covered a 1000 times before. Thanks for the positive comments
I'm sure I'll have to use some filler (but not Bondo). I wish my metal skills were good enough that I wouldn't need it.
The good thing about this repair is its 95% accessible from the back side so I can paint and seam seal to prevent future damage.
More updates as progress is made.

 

[SteveH]

I've linked to this before, but here's some photos for inspiration. http://tlca.org/wp-content/uploads/restoring-budget.pdf

Make your welds and metal work as good as you can, and use a quality filler, and you should be good. I also drive my '98 4Runner on the gloppiest of days, so that I'm not slamming the bottom of the FJ62 with salt, sand, and water.

Like a Patek Philippe watch: "You never actually own a Land Cruiser.You merely take care of it for the next generation."

 

[NMfjCruiser]

Metal work done.
The bead you see at the bottom is because the patch panel is slightly canted in where it was welded to the original arch. I knew I would be using filler and I was more concerned that the arch facing the wheel was metal and not filler.
The two rough areas near the bottom back are previous rust damage. They will be covered in Por15 and the rest will be Zinc Chromated.
It came out pretty straight and I should be able to finish it off with just a skim coat of filler.

 

[SNLC]

My only comment is to use weld through primer.


Cheers

 

[rustybucket]

I was giving a quick explanation from a Toyota factory technician as to what causes the rust to start. The sheet metal and frame steel quality had impurities in the metal base. This resulted in electrolysis when exposed with water. Some steels on some car bodies will never rust because of the lack of impurities in the steel. Locations where corrosion starts is inside the metal where it is spot riveted. Toyota never did include sealant in these areas. As a result, water will wick in between the panels, then start to corrode the metal from the inside out. The gap between the panels is often the thickness of a human finger nail. I do not have a easy answer about how to inject sealant in between the panels.

If anyone has ideas that may work offer them

 

[rustybucket]

I think you're doing great - just keep putting spot welds between those that you have, and eventually, you'll be done. Then shine a very strong flashlight behind it (from inside the rear quarter panel) in a pitch-black garage, and look for voids and reweld. You will find many voids, but just weld/grind/weld until they are all gone.

When painted and bodywork is all done, grease the heck out of it from behind with lots of thick grease. You don't ever want water getting to the backside of your weld!

To bad there was some kind of ultra thin, flat needle he could inject sealent between the panels.

 

[gurskey]

I used lots of paint and then auto panel seam sealer in any gaps.... The stuff they use to fill gaps in between panels.. I basically "caulked" the gaps and smoothed it out with my finger. Its flexible enough that it hasnt seperated and i figure at least provides some protection from water seaping or splashing into the gaps.Its been two years and seems to have worked well.. But really aside from seperating all the spot welds and seams.. I think its better than nothing. I used a syringe with rust bullet too. I squirted it into tight areas... Again.. Better than nothing.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Greg and Output,
This is a text I had with a reunited Navy buddy that lives about 45 mins away from me. He was going through the same issue I was and I helped him along. He was using a fluxcore welder and .35 weld on his TransAm project car. Way too much material for the area.

"I struggled with this very issue last year. I was burning through the steel every time. It turned out it was the welder, it didn't like 22 gauge steel but only because the welder needed to be serviced, it would surging in voltage when I used it.

First are you gas or no gas. Mixed gas right?

Next, what gauge wire are you using. For body panels you need to use .23. .30 and above and you deliver too much material to the area.

Next, the width between the two pieces need to be close but not too close. I would say a little bit closer than the width of a metal cutting blade.

Next, only use a spot weld, don't use a continuos bead.

Finally, hit one area of the panel and go to the next area that is not with in range of the heat you just effected. Or, you can use compressed air to cool it down.

This is what I learned to be about 50% effective with a good bond, the rest is a art form, turly!!

Also, have a good helmet and practice on some scrap sheets of steel. That helped me.

After you get everything welded up and painted you need to do rust prevention on the inside of the repair. Prime the area if you can then seam seal the welded areas, liberally!!"

 

[gregnash]

Greg and Output,
This is a text I had with a reunited Navy buddy that lives about 45 mins away from me. He was going through the same issue I was and I helped him along. He was using a fluxcore welder and .35 weld on his TransAm project car. Way too much material for the area.

"I struggled with this very issue last year. I was burning through the steel every time. It turned out it was the welder, it didn't like 22 gauge steel but only because the welder needed to be serviced, it would surging in voltage when I used it.

First are you gas or no gas. Mixed gas right?

Next, what gauge wire are you using. For body panels you need to use .23. .30 and above and you deliver too much material to the area.

Next, the width between the two pieces need to be close but not too close. I would say a little bit closer than the width of a metal cutting blade.

Next, only use a spot weld, don't use a continuos bead.

Finally, hit one area of the panel and go to the next area that is not with in range of the heat you just effected. Or, you can use compressed air to cool it down.

This is what I learned to be about 50% effective with a good bond, the rest is a art form, turly!!

Also, have a good helmet and practice on some scrap sheets of steel. That helped me.

After you get everything welded up and painted you need to do rust prevention on the inside of the repair. Prime the area if you can then seam seal the welded areas, liberally!!"

Yeah thanks @Cruiser Jimmy ..... I looked at my setup the other night and figured out that I am using .30 wire when I thought I was using .24... I am using mixed 75/25 which is set to a flow rate of 15psi. I think my main problem is partly what you talked about..... too much heat and material to an incredibly thin metal that has been made thinner by me welding then grinding down the weld.

 

[Output Shaft]

To bad there was some kind of ultra thin, flat needle he could inject sealent between the panels.

For small gaps as you describe, what works best is a corrosion control compound (CCC) that weeps and creeps long distances and never dries out.

FluidFilm, HinderRust or Corrosion-X will work well in these spots, as they migrate very far by capillary action, seeping into all the hidden nooks and cranny's while stopping existing rust from growing, and preventing future rust (if regularly applied).

Beware of FluidFilm. It stinks to high heaven seemingly forever. Don't spray it all over everything. Just little problem spots.

I prefer Corrosion-X.

 

[rustybucket]

Output Shaft, good idea. Eventually I am going to park my 60s when I buy a suv, then decide what I will do with it. my frame is almost shot and do not want to risk it cracking to the point it is undrivable. I wonder if box tube sections can be purchaced online and old sections can be cut out? I read to not weld in sections with horizontal welds. If that the case, then how do you weld in the steel? Does the steel need to be shaped like a V in order to prevent the horizontal cracks?

 

[mcguirejohnson]

Nice work on the panel repair! Thin wire and spot welding is defiantly the way to go.

I've heard that squirting a liberal amount of ATF into the seams does a a great job of preventing rust. It's thin enough to fit in between the tight spots and is a lot cheaper than the commercial rust prevention products.

Living in Texas exempts me from the road salt issue, but I don't think anyone can avoid rust issues completely. Heck my dad just tore down his 86 for paint that was in Phoenix, Arizona all its life and still had rust forming in the rear quarter seam as well as behind the windshield gasket.

 

[Ridge Runner]

...what size steel are you using.

I just checked mine the other day. 60 body panels are 18 gauge.

 

[NMfjCruiser]

I cut away all the rust i could see. I used Por 15 and let run into the seam forward and aft of the repair. The new metal was painted with Zinc weld thru primer on both sides. Most of the repair is accessible from the inside, just forward of where the jack sits, and the seam was filled from there with seam sealer and the area where the paint burned off was painted.
I'm confident the rust will not return in my lifetime. Here is the final repair before paint.

 

[jwh2m]

Nice work NM! I wish I had the balls to try something like this- no welding skills, no way to learn, unfortunately. THat will last you a good long time.

 

[sitesbyjoe]

Came out great! I've got a spot to do just lick that one...

 

[NMfjCruiser]

Nice work NM! I wish I had the balls to try something like this- no welding skills, no way to learn, unfortunately. THat will last you a good long time.

Get a welder, some scrap and start practicing. That's how I did it many years ago. Migs not that hard to learn, I'm trying to learn to gas weld aluminum for another project now.

 

[gregnash]

Get a welder, some scrap and start practicing. That's how I did it many years ago. Migs not that hard to learn, I'm trying to learn to gas weld aluminum for another project now.

Yup... best thing I have learned thus far on this truck (and I have a rebuild coming up). Borrowed my uncles MIG for a while and slowly taught myself and then learned more through friends that are welders/have welding experience.... You can learn A LOT on youtube these days.

Now that my uncle has taken the welder back that is the next major purchase for me after the engine rebuild.

 

[NMfjCruiser]

. Finally finished with this project. Had to wait for it to be warm enough to paint. It was in the 60s today, that works.
I got the paint from AutomotiveTouchup and I have to say I was impressed with the color match.