Rust on cams after sitting with milkshake oil (6 Viewers)

[spencergonomo]

Hello,

I am new here, so apologies if I am posting in the wrong spot. My brother purchased a '97 collectors edition Landcruiser a few years ago with a blown head gasket with hopes of fixing it, but it ended up sitting outside for the past 3 or so years. This weekend I pulled the valve cover in hopes of replacing the head gasket and found that the cam lobes are rusty from sitting in the milkshake oil (see image).

What is the next step here? Does the engine need a full rebuild? I would love to simply get the cams machined/replaced, but am worried about rust on the rotating assembly. Is there any way to get my borescope into the crankcase? Would love to see inside without pulling the upper oil pan with the engine in the truck.

Let me know! Thanks.

 

[Mandrake]

Ooof. You're probably SOL on those cams, but I'd spray 'em down with rust remover to see what you're working with under the rust. Those lobes with the crusty crust on 'em aren't promising, but you never know until you see what's underneath. As for the borescope, you could go down the dipstick tube and if you have a fancy one that you can control, then you might be able to look up at the crank. Otherwise, drop the lower oil pan and scope from there.

 

[Fj80oregon]

Pull the spark plugs and look at the cylinder walls that should tell you all you need to know. You might be able to save the cams still as long as they are not heavily pitted they might polish up with some emery cloth. Cams are around $1k for a set so not terrible.

 

[White Stripe]

Looks like it will need a rebuild to me.

 

[TheBussman]

that exhaust cam is toast. The intake MIGHT clean up. Pitting on the base circle of the cam you can get away with but anything on the lobe can cause you issues. used cams arnt that expensive. I know somebody that might have one. Keep going on your headgasket job and keep looking for other things that might be rusted out. I suspect the majority of the rust will be on the top of the motor.

 

[Kernal]

Any cylinders that had water/coolant sitting in them for all this time will likely be severely corroded/eroded along with the engine bearings.

IMHO with a blown head gasket if you aren't going to rebuild it immediately it's important to get all the water/coolant out of the engine. At a minimum drain the oil and coolant, remove the oil filter, remove the spark plugs, remove the EFI fuse (leave it out), crank the engine to blow out water, add oil into each cylinder, repeat to get all water out of the cylinders, add fresh oil and a new filter to the engine, crank the engine to circulate the oil until you see oil pressure, drain that if you want to be sure, repeat, remove the valve cover, clean/remove water/sludge, etc, etc. A lot of work but the idea is to avoid what the OP is looking at and what he can't see (yet).

Better to rebuild it ASAP and not let it sit for weeks, month, years, ---. @Fj80oregon rebuilds engines so will have more experience as to what might or might not be rebuild-able.

Here's one example.

I'm not a machinist but that might be able to be bored out, then larger pistons, etc but rebuilding that engine (if possible) using
Toyota parts can get close to the cost of a new short block which comes with new pistons and crankshaft (but not the head or camshafts)

Here's another example caused by coolant/water sitting on top of the piston (worse than above):

 

[spencergonomo]

Thanks for the replies. Sent my borescope down the spark plug holes today. For the most part they looked perfect, but I've attached the worst spots—the one that looks pretty bad was cylinder #1 in the third photo.

I guess its hard to gauge without pulling the head and feeling the walls with a finger, but if I were to just oil down the cylinder walls and replace the head gasket does it look like I'd have issues in the near future? Would love to get this truck back on the road but can't devote the time to a complete rebuild at the moment.

 

[baldilocks]

I’m in agreement that a full tear down would ensure reliability but there is something being given up in the form of knowledge gained through good ole experience if you jump straight into a rebuild.

I’d run it as is so later on I could think to myself, now I know. View some videos where an old piece of equipment that has been abandoned for 20 years and has tree’s growing through it is drug into the light and some very determined men have it running, and seemingly well, in no time at all.

 

[spencergonomo]

I’m in agreement that a full tear down would ensure reliability but there is something being given up in the form of knowledge gained through good ole experience if you jump straight into a rebuild.

I’d run it as is so later on I could think to myself, now I know. View some videos where an old piece of equipment that has been abandoned for 20 years and has tree’s growing through it is drug into the light and some very determined men have it running, and seemingly well, in no time at all.

Beautifully said. Thanks for the perspective—I am going to continue with the head gasket job. It's better this truck gets cleaned up and on the road rather than sitting in the woods for another 5 years waiting for a full rebuild.

 

[Kernal]

Worth a try, clean it up as best as you can. You could soak the camshafts in Evapo-Rust and clean any rust/gunk out from inside of the shafts so the small oil ports don't get plugged. The head probably should be rebuilt and checked for cracks and to see that the valves seat properly. Have the machinist look at the camshafts. Either way the valves and seats could be rusted/corroded also so could need machining. Once it's all back together run some cheapo oil (but good filters) through it a few times, first oil/filter change after just a few minutes after it gets up to operating temperature, etc, etc. Might get lucky.

 

[White Stripe]

That does not look good. Those cylinder walls look pitted. Oil mixed with coolant forms acids that destroy bearings. I see no point in doing just a cylinder head. I think you would be better off with a good used engine if your in a jam financially.

 

[Kernal]

I have to agree with above. Won't really know how bad it is until the head comes off. The OP might get lucky, for awhile, but then might get increased oil usage/burning, low compression, low oil pressure, engine knocking, then a bearing spins ---- then dead in the water all over again.

@spencergonomo : post up photos of what you find once the head comes off.

 

[TheBussman]

Thanks for the replies. Sent my borescope down the spark plug holes today. For the most part they looked perfect, but I've attached the worst spots—the one that looks pretty bad was cylinder #1 in the third photo.

I guess its hard to gauge without pulling the head and feeling the walls with a finger, but if I were to just oil down the cylinder walls and replace the head gasket does it look like I'd have issues in the near future? Would love to get this truck back on the road but can't devote the time to a complete rebuild at the moment.

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I've seen much worse with really good compression test results. i say try it out and see how it goes. the oil flush after you get it running is a great idea.

 

[baldilocks]

Beautifully said. Thanks for the perspective—I am going to continue with the head gasket job. It's better this truck gets cleaned up and on the road rather than sitting in the woods for another 5 years waiting for a full rebuild.

Running a 15w-40 diesel engine oil in it will help clean it up with its more robust detergent package.