RTI Ramp/Travel pics, lift changes, sway bars...for reference

[Aussie cruiser]

Of course there are front swaybar drop brackets! Were you raised under a rock?!? Try sleeoffroad.com and man-a-fre.com

A simple YES would have answered the question. No not raised under a rock just on a different rock.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

this is my current truck, with the long travel shocks to suit an 80, as patrol is very similar in set out, arm lengths, wheelbase, track to the 80 series, before we fitted the longer Fox triple bypass shocks recently.

I have had no sway bars since new, and truck gets up to 3.6 tonnes [8000lb] for desert touring and when pushed hard, will pick up a front tyre, when it leans, but it still corners just as fast, as corner speed isnt down with or without sway bars, but I can make it pick up wheels, or not, depending on how I wish to drive it, but I would put my wife in it every day of the week,a nd let her drive it, because it is still predicable, and most of all, safe.

 

[FJBen]

ok, tried pulling/loosing the front shock on the drivers side. basically just took the nut off to test to see if more flex was really available with longer shocks. This again is just testing for really no particular reason other than my curiousity...lol

Pics:
4" Lift, Slee arms, no front or rear sway bars, hitch pin pulled, shock unbolted up top:

 

[FJBen]

Here's backing up the ramp this time,

 

[FJBen]

Random thoughts again:

#1 for a stock 4" lift, WITH swaybars, and standard control arm setup, these shocks are definitely the right length.

#2 for a stock 4" lift, WITHOUT swaybars and standard control arm setup, again these are just at there max.

#3 Bacon

#4 stock 4" lift, WITHOUT swaybars and the hitchpin mod, they are NOT long enough by a few inches 3" at least.

(more thoughts/observations to come on the shocks)

I noticed a MUCH more level flex at this point...she wasn't leaning ALL the way over like before. You'll notice the shocks are definitely too short and this point and are hard to straighten out to fit back in the hole. That pin mount system seems to be causing some binding as well, although prolly not as much as the radius arm itself.

 

[concretejungle]

Good information Ben.

 

[Nay]

Random thoughts again:

#1 for a stock 4" lift, WITH swaybars, and standard control arm setup, these shocks are definitely the right length.

#2 for a stock 4" lift, WITHOUT swaybars and standard control arm setup, again these are just at there max.

#3 Bacon

#4 stock 4" lift, WITHOUT swaybars and the hitchpin mod, they are NOT long enough by a few inches 3" at least.

(more thoughts/observations to come on the shocks)

I noticed a MUCH more level flex at this point...she wasn't leaning ALL the way over like before. You'll notice the shocks are definitely too short and this point and are hard to straighten out to fit back in the hole. That pin mount system seems to be causing some binding as well, although prolly not as much as the radius arm itself.

Great pics - front end is moving pretty well there.

What shocks are you running? Are those L's or the regular OME's?

May I recommend an eye to eye adapter conversion. Great way to space your travel now that you know what you are dealing with, and you can stop bending your shocks in the process .

If you are getting new shocks, there are lots of excellent options beyond OME once you have an eye to eye mount.

Nay

 

[FJBen]

Great pics - front end is moving pretty well there.

What shocks are you running? Are those L's or the regular OME's?

May I recommend an eye to eye adapter conversion. Great way to space your travel now that you know what you are dealing with, and you can stop bending your shocks in the process .

If you are getting new shocks, there are lots of excellent options beyond OME once you have an eye to eye mount.

Nay

thats exactly where I was going before I went to lunch and didn't finish my post... I think the same size shock with just the eye/eye end would work A LOT better.

They are the "L" shocks. They are definitely too short and causing some stress with the unpinned setup. I was thinking maybe bilstein would be sweet! I think now the front is matching the rear. With a disconnect for the front mount (3-link for cheap) If that poor mans 3 link works the 80 could have very balanced flex with different schocks, and great on road driving.

I just wonder about the stress put on that opposite mount. If it could be beefed up then kinda a cheap way to get lots of flex.

i dunno...need to ponder more...

 

[Nay]

thats exactly where I was going before I went to lunch and didn't finish my post... I think the same size shock with just the eye/eye end would work A LOT better.

They are the "L" shocks. They are definitely too short and causing some stress with the unpinned setup. I was thinking maybe bilstein would be sweet! I think now the front is matching the rear. With a disconnect for the front mount (3-link for cheap) If that poor mans 3 link works the 80 could have very balanced flex with different schocks, and great on road driving.

I just wonder about the stress put on that opposite mount. If it could be beefed up then kinda a cheap way to get lots of flex.

i dunno...need to ponder more...

I think you would be extremely pleased with a straight Bilstein 5100 series with the higher quality Slee springs (I'd definitely replace the OME with Slee rears). The onroad ride of my rig is head and shoulders above OME medium on high end custom springs and Bilsteins and I am not wasting unusable up travel offroad at the cost of down travel.

To give you some specs - on a 3" lift (23.5" hub to flare front and 23" rear with tape measure bending around the 35" trxus...which adds about 1/4") I am running ~10" travel shocks with the eye to eye adapters. This is providing 5" of up travel and 5" down.

On a 4" lift, you'd want the 11" travel shock just like OME L, but as you say, with an eye to eye adapter to compress it about 2" to shorten up and increase down. If my specs translate to your rig, the eye to eye setup with 11" travel would give you about 5" up and 6" down. Depends on compressed length of the shock you choose, of course. But those ratios would be excellent while maximizing usable travel with the 35's. I am guessing you are more in the 7" up and 4" down range right now with the L's? Start with that figure and then assume about 2" shift to increased down travel by going to eye adapters (compressed shock lengths being equal).

This is a great set of data - what you are showing here is the potential improvement in suspension performance by optimizing shock travel. One size shock does not fit all...in reality, one size shock fits a very specific lift with very specific mount points.

Nay

 

[Texus]

Huh?!

Is that shock not attached anywhere up top (mount)??!! or am is missing something???!!!

 

[alkaline747trio]

A simple YES would have answered the question. No not raised under a rock just on a different rock.

It was meant to be humorus, sorry I failed at that. But yea, sway drops are easily found in the western hemisphere.

 

[FJBen]

Is that shock not attached anywhere up top (mount)??!! or am is missing something???!!!

yup it was undone to see if more flex was available than the shocks allow. So there is more flex available definitley with the hitch pin mod.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Seeing the last pic in post 5 makes me think that this mod doesn't really create much more to be hung up on a rock. I may give this a try the next time I roll over to the Uwharries.

 

[Dusty]

cool post Ben. Like a thesis for a Ih8mud masters. swaybar disconects would be handy. I have them on the front of my heep grand cheroke and like em. rear disconects shouldn't be all that hard.

 

[Mickldo]

cool post Ben. Like a thesis for a Ih8mud masters. swaybar disconects would be handy. I have them on the front of my heep grand cheroke and like em. rear disconects shouldn't be all that hard.

I reckon fronts would be easy to do just a simple ag-clip of the right size and a bracket to hold it up out of the way. Rears on the other hand would be harder as they go under the diff housing and would hang down underneath when disconnected.

I was looking at fitting a swaybar from a 40 to the back in the space where the spare tyre used to live. Don't know how it will go though. Anybody have a 40 rear sway (or similar) to test fit on their 80 to see if it would fit? Other bars I have tried are 60s and GQ patrol, no simple swaps there.

 

[Nay]

I just took my front swaybar off completely after this post...I had been assuming that with rear coils it would make a huge difference. Well...it didn't.

I don't have any extra lean unless I am cornering a lot harder than I should be...and even then it is very minimal and the suspension is controlling the motion in a very predictable way. By this I mean you don't have the "snapping" motion a swaybar will give you when you have a lot of unsprung weight and hit a bump going around a corner and similar situations. Front end behaves better on parking lot entrances at an angle and that sort of thing.

I won't remove the rear...both for stiffness carrying load and to balance the front offroad. This is not a recommendation, BTW. I am designing my suspension to account for this type of change.

Nay

 

[Dusty]

how bout just making a new sway bar from solid mild stock. Can one make a sway bar from mild steel solid bar (1-1.5") or would one need a higher grade steel?

 

[FJBen]

I just took my front swaybar off completely after this post...I had been assuming that with rear coils it would make a huge difference. Well...it didn't.

I don't have any extra lean unless I am cornering a lot harder than I should be...and even then it is very minimal and the suspension is controlling the motion in a very predictable way. By this I mean you don't have the "snapping" motion a swaybar will give you when you have a lot of unsprung weight and hit a bump going around a corner and similar situations. Front end behaves better on parking lot entrances at an angle and that sort of thing.

I won't remove the rear...both for stiffness carrying load and to balance the front offroad. This is not a recommendation, BTW. I am designing my suspension to account for this type of change.

Nay

Very cool, glad to see I'm not an anomoly again When I only had the rear off I really couldn't tell any difference. By taking them both off it did have more sway, but again not scary. It might be best if people are going to try this, to go with the front off first to have the rear force the front to flex. ***AGAIN JUST MY THOUGHTS ON MY SUSPENSION SETUP***

The shocks are what I think are causing some bind and forcing the suspension to work harder. I think eye to eye conversions are the way to go. Plus you can get basically ANY shock to fit that. I think Bilsteins would be very sweet. I would like to know what you think about them so far Nay.

Here's my shock Situation...

Ride Height 24 1/4" thats mount to mount point on vehicle (at mounting point to mounting point on the vehicle)

See if my metric math is correct

N73L = 15 1/4" compressed 26 1/4" extended

That would assume I only have 2" of droop which I know is wrong so I'm not sure how they are measuring the shocks with the pin mounts? Maybe top of shock body to bottom of shock body? If this is the case then my ride height is 21 3/4"

At 21 3/4" ride height, I have 6 1/2" of up travel, 4 1/2" of downtravel. definitely not optimum, and Nay way SPOT ON!!! The same shock spaced down by the eye to eye adapters would effectively lessen my compressed up travel and increase my down travel....Which would be extremely useful if I follow through in the poor mans 3-link. The pics are show I need around 3" more of downtravel or just go to a 12" travel shock.

I think you could also do this with the rear...but the bumpstops would have to come into play more. I can stuff the rear fully, and fully extend it using all the 11" of travel in those shocks. I'm VERY close to a balanced front and rear flex setup which would be VERY nice!

 

[Nay]

The shocks are what I think are causing some bind and forcing the suspension to work harder. I think eye to eye conversions are the way to go. Plus you can get basically ANY shock to fit that. I think Bilsteins would be very sweet. I would like to know what you think about them so far Nay.

At 21 3/4" ride height, I have 6 1/2" of up travel, 4 1/2" of downtravel. definitely not optimum, and Nay way SPOT ON!!! The same shock spaced down by the eye to eye adapters would effectively lessen my compressed up travel and increase my down travel....Which would be extremely useful if I follow through in the poor mans 3-link. The pics are show I need around 3" more of downtravel or just go to a 12" travel shock.

I think you could also do this with the rear...but the bumpstops would have to come into play more. I can stuff the rear fully, and fully extend it using all the 11" of travel in those shocks. I'm VERY close to a balanced front and rear flex setup which would be VERY nice!

I hate shocks with metal boots. Without that boot it just takes a tape measure to see how much up travel you have. Your measurements sound right, though given you have more lift than J springs. If you can invert this to 5" up and 6" down with a balanced suspension...that is going to be sweet.

Not sure if a 12" shock is too long....I think you want 5" of up as any less may get you on those bumpstops a bit much. Rear works same as front...it's just bumpstops protecting the shock vs. the front that just binds before it gets all the way up.

I love the Bilstein 5100 series in the $65 range. If you look up the specs on these shocks, you find a high compression valving and lower rebound. Many shocks on the market go the other way and focus on rebound control.

Any lifted rig is by definition top heavy...and 80's are top heavy when not lifted. If your shocks allow greater compression motion of the overall suspension in tune with your springs, and then attempt to control the suspension motion on rebound, you get a rig that sways and has a lot of jerkiness to the suspension. It simple terms, it allows lean and then attempts to keep it there.

Bilstein offroad series come at it the other way, which is to lessen the compression motion so you don't need all the rebound control (and swaybars on a rig with a lot of unsprung weight have a lot to do with rebound control). I've run these on two rigs now and they made a world of difference on both.

In purely subjective terms:

I was on OME medium with D load range 33" trxus. I am now on 3" custom springs with 5150 Bilsteins on E load range 35" trxus. The ride quality is better on the 3" with 35's by substantial margin (although the springs play their part in conjunction with shocks...it's not just Bilstein). First time my wife drove it she commented on how much better the new setup is. That's an assessment with no technical details and perceived seat of the pants performance gains.

To me, it handles as well without the front swaybar on this suspension as it did on the OME medium with swaybar...and I have significantly improved ride quality and my suspension is tuned for 35's on a relatively lower lift. I was grinning ear to ear last night on a test drive after removing the swaybar.

I'm running Spring Creek tomorrow to give it a hardcore workout at which time I can better comment on shock travel in all conditions.

Nay

 

[FJBen]

Nice, can't wait for the shock report after Spring Creek! I'll be up Crystal this weekend and know of some flexxy spots to try out.


Went and ramped AGAIN at lunch...it's nice, the ramp is about 2 blocks from my house and on the way home where I go to lunch...makes this whole process a bit easier


So I pulled the pin, (shock was attached) and flexed up backwards to make the front compress as far down as I could. Got out underneath and made sure it was compressed enough. definintely as far as I would want to go, the coil was VERY compresses although not distorted/touching. Measured the shock from top of can to bottom and got 18 1/4" I don't think I want it to compress anymore than that anyways, I don't have bumpstop spacers up front, but I don't know how I'd ever get that much compression with my 4" lift.


It appears that Bilstein doesn't have an 11" shock in the 5100 series, just 10, 11.8 hmmm...

This is where I'm wondering about the measuring...Don't you measure eye to eye on those style mounts???? becuase this is going to make a difference in if I can fit those. I can prolly make it so that my bumpstop stops all travel at 18.5" that would give me around 1/2 ~ 3/4" before the shock bottoms out...IF measuring system I use is correct.

In that case I can use the 11.8" travel shock...that would give me ~4" up 7" down. With the pin out, I bet I could dang near use all that droop. And here is a pic of the front tire stuff. By putting a bumpstop there, (don't think it will go any further anyway) I think it should be setup nicely and work with the 11.8" shock thoughts?