Rivian R1S vs LC thoughts?

Would you trade in your Land Cruiser for a Rivian R1S/R1T?


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For now we still live in a Free Enterprise system and you can still spend your money on what you want.

I work in the Power Industry and have worked on the most powerful engines in the world from small line turbines to 1500 MW turbines and generators. I have first hand knowledge of what it takes to generate large electrical power you can feel and hear the work going on as a turbine drives the generator.

The problem is these large turbines are being taken off line and replaced with wind and solar which are unreliable and intermittent. The grid operates in balance you cannot generate more power than is being taken off or the inverse you have to generate enough power to keep up with demand. Turbines, gas or steam run 24/7 wind and solar do not.

Both Musk and the head of Toyota have told the US Government that this country does not have the power generation to support everyone to have EVs the grid will collapse and is very stressed now. The UK already has the ability to pull the power out of the batteries of cars plugged in to charge and they may not have a charge to get to work.

At the beginning of the 20th century the automotive industry was getting started, we had more choices for a car. We had steamers, gas and diesel, electric and they all competed in the marketplace. Gas and Diesel cars won. Today's EVs are plagued with the same problems they were at the beginning of the 20th century with a couple more to add to the list, but all cars made advances in over 100 years and are much more complicated some good and some bad. The Europeans have started picking up burning EVs and dunking them in tanks of water because of the large amount of water it takes to cool them down so they don't continue to reignite that only works of the car is on the street.

There is no free lunch when it comes to EVs or ICEs they consume energy and with the consummation there are emissions. EVs have toxic emissions in the production of the batteries and then at the end of life. Then emissions from the power generation, ICEs at the tail pipe.

I have done several outages on two steam turbines that use captured solar energy to use to generate steam and they cannot run 24/7 because they are dependent on sunlight.
The turbines were failing because they spent half the time on turning gear waiting to start in the morning once the sun came up. The operators have to keep an eye on the weather because if there is cloud cover they may not be able to start the turbine in the morning because they can't take the BTUs from the solar mirrors and generate steam.

Once the grid collapse, we will either be walking or riding a horse. Or cars with small reactors to drive the electric motors. Don't laugh, there were experiments to use nuclear energy for cars and aircraft.
 
For now we still live in a Free Enterprise system and you can still spend your money on what you want.

I work in the Power Industry and have worked on the most powerful engines in the world from small line turbines to 1500 MW turbines and generators. I have first hand knowledge of what it takes to generate large electrical power you can feel and hear the work going on as a turbine drives the generator.

The problem is these large turbines are being taken off line and replaced with wind and solar which are unreliable and intermittent. The grid operates in balance you cannot generate more power than is being taken off or the inverse you have to generate enough power to keep up with demand. Turbines, gas or steam run 24/7 wind and solar do not.

Both Musk and the head of Toyota have told the US Government that this country does not have the power generation to support everyone to have EVs the grid will collapse and is very stressed now. The UK already has the ability to pull the power out of the batteries of cars plugged in to charge and they may not have a charge to get to work.

At the beginning of the 20th century the automotive industry was getting started, we had more choices for a car. We had steamers, gas and diesel, electric and they all competed in the marketplace. Gas and Diesel cars won. Today's EVs are plagued with the same problems they were at the beginning of the 20th century with a couple more to add to the list, but all cars made advances in over 100 years and are much more complicated some good and some bad. The Europeans have started picking up burning EVs and dunking them in tanks of water because of the large amount of water it takes to cool them down so they don't continue to reignite that only works of the car is on the street.

There is no free lunch when it comes to EVs or ICEs they consume energy and with the consummation there are emissions. EVs have toxic emissions in the production of the batteries and then at the end of life. Then emissions from the power generation, ICEs at the tail pipe.

I have done several outages on two steam turbines that use captured solar energy to use to generate steam and they cannot run 24/7 because they are dependent on sunlight.
The turbines were failing because they spent half the time on turning gear waiting to start in the morning once the sun came up. The operators have to keep an eye on the weather because if there is cloud cover they may not be able to start the turbine in the morning because they can't take the BTUs from the solar mirrors and generate steam.

Once the grid collapse, we will either be walking or riding a horse. Or cars with small reactors to drive the electric motors. Don't laugh, there were experiments to use nuclear energy for cars and aircraft.
It will be a long time (2040? 2050?) until the grid is fully renewable / nuclear and everyone is driving electric. I think American innovation and ingenuity will solve any problems long before that. Or it will have all collapsed and it won’t matter.
 
Only if the free market can drive the innovation.
 
Most EVs charge at home at night, which actually help by driving demand for base load electricity. The power companies then sell cheap solar power at peak rates while the EVs sit in the parking lot at work. In general, I see a small percentage of all cars being EVs as a net win for the grid.

Charging stations are going to be the big issue for Rivian. Electrify America has expanded substantially in my area, but the chargers seem to be horribly unreliable. At this point, the main selling point of Tesla is their charging network.
 
Only if the free market can drive the innovation.
I made all of my money in tech. Guess what? Free markets are a myth. They don’t work. We have a market driven economy but not a free market in any way, shape, or form. The only true free market is in a totally anarchist country like Somalia. Been there. Not good.
 
I made all of my money in tech. Guess what? Free markets are a myth. They don’t work. We have a market driven economy but not a free market in any way, shape, or form. The only true free market is in a totally anarchist country like Somalia. Been there. Not good.

Well said. I’ve also made all of my money in tech and have arrived at the same conclusion. A truly free market results in tyranny and anarchy. People and markets need guardrails.
 
Lets not get into market talk gentleman or we’ll all be here a while lol

i do agree with a poster earlier the main selling point of teslas are the charger network. And with lots more EVs coming to market it’s pretty much the only selling point.
 
i do agree with a poster earlier the main selling point of teslas are the charger network. And with lots more EVs coming to market it’s pretty much the only selling point.
Tesla still has the best range/$ of any EV in it's respective segment. So that's 2 big selling points. My model 3 is cheap, unrefined and occasionally frustrating. My 80 series has more stock sound deadening, a 1989 civic has more refined suspension, etc. The main leg up other EV's have over tesla is that they're built by actual car companies with experience in what's a good idea and what's not (i.e. phone keys, door handles, control menus, etc.)
 
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My next door neighbor in Seattle owns one of the national highspeed charging network companies. Giant roof covered with solar panels. He has 3 Teslas - an S, an X, and a 3 for the nanny. And a Chevy Bolt. The only car I ever see him driving alone is the Bolt. When I asked him why he says it is the only one that has that solid feeling of a real car. And an interior that doesn’t look like it was put together by blind children.
 
You're not wrong. Although my tesla only cost $32k brand new ($24k after rebate). Can't get them that cheap anymore. At 66k miles, it rattles like a 1980's dodge. All the money went into the battery and drive unit.
 
My early build 2018 LR AWD 3 is rock solid after 4 years. Yes some of the interior feels a little cheep, like the window switches. But after the tax rebate it was $43k, so hardly a fair comparison to my LX that was almost 2.5x that. The steering, drive and road feel reminds me of the E46 M3 I had, drove great (well when the BMW wasn’t broken down), cut corners in cost other places. Doesn’t remind me of the reliability of the BMW as it was the least reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned.
 
I didn’t even know these were a thing until this thread..
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I don’t know about electric and towing. No good.

EVs are so incredibly efficient I think it will be a while before they can handle >100 miles of towing especially with larger boats and RVs. Slow speeds, off road, pretty much everything else they are more efficient, towing not so much.

You can’t overcome physics. The amount of drag (additional forces) that need to be overcome pulling a trailer at a given speed is the same regardless of what is pulling it, f150 lightning, R1T, CyberTruck, ICE LX570,…. The difference is that with EVs being extremely efficient (for comparison my LX570 uses 2.8 kWh/mi for its “rated mpg”) you really notice the extra force and gas tanks have huge energy capacity, ~850 kWh in a gas truck, ~1200 kWh in a diesel.

Just basic rough math pulling my camper (frontal profile 8’x8’, cd 0.65, -40% (for the truck profile), with 0.015 rolling resistance) on a flat surface @55 mph with still air requires an additional 1-1.2 kw of energy. At @70 mph more like 1.5-1.8 kw.

Same math with the boat I had (26’ Duckworth) looking at additional ~0.9-1kw @55 mph.

So with the camper if baseline “rated” is ~400 Wh/mi then looking at 1.5 kw/mi @55 mph and >2 kw/mi @70 mph. Even with a 200 kw battery only going to go ~100-130 miles max.


We don’t need more efficient EV trucks we need more energy dense batteries
 
As mentioned in an earlier post I think the next step is small battery assist motor on the trailer that will connect to EV just like the 7 pin trailer connection. But it will talk back and forth about how to best assist while towing and regenning during braking and coasting and helping with initial pull and then help with above mentioned air resistance.
 
I preordered my Rivian R1S back in November 2018. I have been told that I am one of the first few hundred R1S orders. My configuration has been locked in since April 2022. I have a test drive on Wednesday, so hopefully my delivery is coming soon. I am not sure if I will keep the Rivian or flip it for a profit.
I drive a 2018 LC200 as my daily driver and will do my best to compare them.
 
I preordered my Rivian R1S back in November 2018. I have been told that I am one of the first few hundred R1S orders. My configuration has been locked in since April 2022. I have a test drive on Wednesday, so hopefully my delivery is coming soon. I am not sure if I will keep the Rivian or flip it for a profit.
I drive a 2018 LC200 as my daily driver and will do my best to compare them.
I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.
 

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