I don’t think anyone is ever claiming it’s superior…it’s just really good technology for what it’s purpose is.
TFL just didn’t recognize/review the vehicle is built a certain way for a certain purpose.
Reliability called into question (1 Viewer)
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TFL just didn’t recognize/review the vehicle is built a certain way for a certain purpose.
Welcome, brave soul.
I never will understand the appeal of 20” wheels.
“Yeah, I want my vehicle to ride worse, be more likely to destroy wheels and tires on potholes, and, just for the heck of it, make those wheels and tires more expensive, too!”
That’s not something I’ve ever said. Sidewall is a good thing.
Note, I’m not ragging on LR here — plenty of other automakers do the same, including Toyota. I just don’t get it.
“Yeah, I want my vehicle to ride worse, be more likely to destroy wheels and tires on potholes, and, just for the heck of it, make those wheels and tires more expensive, too!”
That’s not something I’ve ever said. Sidewall is a good thing.
Note, I’m not ragging on LR here — plenty of other automakers do the same, including Toyota. I just don’t get it.
In an SUV, totally agree. Making a SUV more sporty it is not my thing either but they sell ... So, there is that.
In a sports car, they do make way more sense !
Meh.
I think the chance of the average driver being able to use the difference between 18” and 20” on a sports car is low. The bigger wheel does give you the ability run bigger brakes.
20” wheels on full size pickups sends my right round the bend…
Isn’t there a benefit to having larger wheels when it comes to towing?
No.
Another reason while AWD is awesome. I'd honestly have a hard time going pack to a part-time system, fuel economy be damned. Too many years driving Subarus and now my AWD GX.
It's a lot more complexity to have something disconnect/reconnect vs. just leaving it engaged all of the time - there is always the "wear and tear" argument, but it's not like the AWD 100/120/150/200s really wear out any front end components, ever.
+1 I have no desire for any PT 4WD setups
I have actually started looking at the defender recently as a replacement for my 4Runner. I was originally thinking the 250 was the way I wanted to go but I honestly like the way the defender looks both inside and outside and it really isn’t priced much differently than the 250. I certainly have lower expectations on reliability but I’m trying to gauge how much lower it may be.
……” I certainly have lower expectations on reliability “ ……
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Probably not the criteria most folks use when considering the purchase of a new vehicle.
Good luck ……
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Probably not the criteria most folks use when considering the purchase of a new vehicle.
Good luck ……
When LR announced the Defender, before it was in production, I was intrigued by their stated objectives (like payload targets); I spent quite a bit of time researching LR reliability.
What I found was, frankly, shocking, both statistically and in owner accounts. Most unsettling to me was the propensity of modern Land Rover vehicles to simply stop working -- random, sudden inoperability.
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I have seen similar, though it seems that I am finding fewer horror stories on the 2021+ defenders with the straight 6. The 2.0 turbo 4 seems to have higher frequency of issues. Most of the complaints I have seen on the new defenders are software related (though some of those software issues included the car thinking it was overheating in catastrophic fashion).
When you get way up into the payload range, the tires you need only come in larger wheel sizes. Most commonly they end up being 19.5 or 22.5. The taller wheel starts to be important to clear the brakes on larger trucks. Usually that means medium duty trucks like the GM Kodiak, F450/550 etc. If you're towing more than about 20k lbs, I'd be looking pretty hard at 19.5 or 22.5 wheels.
For the LC250 - it's not practical to use as a tow vehicle with the small fuel tank. 100 mile towing range would probably take it off my list of vehicles unless i wasn't towing very often and I'd need to build jerry can mounts on the trailer tongue. For an LC250 - my preferred wheel would be a 16 or 17. I'm fine with larger wheels so long as there is still adequate sidewall. A 37" tire on a 20 inch wheel is okay by me. A 33" tire on a 20" wheel isn't all that far off from a 31" tire on a 17" wheel. At a minimum Toyota could make the 20" wheels 8" wide or greater so we could re-use them with properly sized tires. The 20x7 wheels they put on the 4Runner are not ideal for many tire options because they're so narrow.
For the LC250 - it's not practical to use as a tow vehicle with the small fuel tank. 100 mile towing range would probably take it off my list of vehicles unless i wasn't towing very often and I'd need to build jerry can mounts on the trailer tongue. For an LC250 - my preferred wheel would be a 16 or 17. I'm fine with larger wheels so long as there is still adequate sidewall. A 37" tire on a 20 inch wheel is okay by me. A 33" tire on a 20" wheel isn't all that far off from a 31" tire on a 17" wheel. At a minimum Toyota could make the 20" wheels 8" wide or greater so we could re-use them with properly sized tires. The 20x7 wheels they put on the 4Runner are not ideal for many tire options because they're so narrow.
Another reason while AWD is awesome
It's a lot more complexity to have something disconnect/reconnect vs. just leaving it engaged all of the time - there is always the "wear and tear" argument, but it's not like the AWD 100/120/150/200s really wear out any front end components, ever.
AWD is IMHO a waste of fuel
Coming from old school subaru wagons that had an actual xfer case (part time 4wd) to the "new" ones we saw a massive drop in fuel economy.
Its the same today with most every manufacturer that offers a FWD and AWD version of a vehicle.....the AWD version takes a big hit in economy.
If Toyota is now introducing a "shear pin" like feature to compensate for under built drive components then it should be field serviceable/replaceable......little different than what you see on a snow blower.
Anything that is designed to fail under stress and requires a garage/difficult process to fix and will leave you stranded is a bad design
I don't know if "massive drop in fuel economy" and "takes a big hit in economy" are very accurate. It's typically like a 2 mpg difference in most modern cars that are available in FWD/AWD.
I had a 2013 Impreza hatchback that got ~ 35mpg on the highway. Did they previously have a FWD Impreza that got better gas mileage than that?
I was looking at ‘24 4R EPA MPG and they are the same between PT and AWD Limited
We've been through this before and we are not going to agree on AWD vs. part-time
. From my experience and driving conditions it's a very clear winner in vehicle capability and driving dynamics with AWD, which is why I've always had an AWD vehicle or two for the past 15 years. I've also owned normal FWD, RWD, and 4x4 selectable. I don't disagree that there can be a fuel economy penalty with AWD, but it's worth every penny for my roads here in the Ozarks and the overall driving experience. My 5,300# GX can at times feel like an AWD rally wagon (albeit with a high COG) on gravel/loose stuff due to that awesome Torsen center diff, and it's fun to drive.Even the e-AWD feature in our Hybrid Highlander is pretty awesome - the rear is electric only and can be used to drive/charge. 35 mpg epa rating (which it does get) and it will hit 39-40 mpg sometimes. All in a 5,000# 3-row crossover that's bigger than my GX.
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beat to the punch
the suburu in question (late 1970's) I referenced got high 20's....at least mine did before the rear seat floor rotted completely out and seat started err....getting close to the highway.....they were FWD with part time rear
The first gen outback style awd wagon dropped to low 20's
10-20% drop in efficiency isnt trivial on a daily driver just between PT 4WD and AWD option.
Everyone has an opinion and needs to weigh the pros/cons of each
AWD = more moving parts and more things to break.
If AWD is your thing then by all means enjoy but lets not pretend that its anything but a nice to have feature that robs you of mileage
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