Reliability called into question (3 Viewers)

[2021 LC200]

It shouldn't have water in it unless a seal fails. Same with the ADD. They're nearly identical devices. And nearly the same height. They fail the same way. They're all pretty reliable if they're used occasionally and not wrenched on by monkeys. I don't think the AWD systems are any more reliable than the part time.

The only place there's a big difference is in the tundra and Sequoia that have significantly heavier duty cases than the land cruiser models. But they're also built for heavier use.

Water crossings add pretty normal in my world. Just depends on how you use it and where. An off-road SUV had better TTbe ready for water crossings. That's a pretty basic requirement.

The vast majority of LC owners never once engage 4hi or 4lo for the entire life of the vehicle. Id bet it's less than 1% of LXs are ever shifted. So theyd never know if they failed.

The differentials, transfercase and gearbox have breather hose with a check valve mechanism. This allows for fluid expansion when things heat up. With time these breather hoses and check valves are a weakness when combined with lengthy water crossings. The case you refer to was a second owner and per his analysis was the logical reason for water in the transfer case oil and subsequent issues. It is known feature and weakness of the design. There are relocation kits routing these breather lines up high into the engine bay. A recommended mod for those considering serious overland and cross water/river use.

Further info on the breather hose setup and relocation of the same can be found here on MUD or by general search on the internet.

200 Series Drivetrain Breather Project

I haven't seen to many threads here in the 200 section regarding drive train breather extensions, so I figured I might as well document my experiences for reference later. The plan is to extend the front and rear differentials, as well as the transmission and transfer case breathers into the...

forum.ih8mud.com

Or this video at 30min showing the breather hose location on top of the transfer case.

 

[2021 LC200]

The only place there's a big difference is in the tundra and Sequoia that have significantly heavier duty cases than the land cruiser models. But they're also built for heavier use.

Would you mind sharing the information which spells out the Tundra and Sequia have heavier duty transfer cases? Interesting statement and like to see some further info on that.

 

[bugsnbikes]

wait- arent the Tacomas hecho in Mexico....vs the 250/550s built in Japan?

 

[Rednexus]

There's nothing confusing about it, its proof positive that the newer AWD iterations get crappier mileage than the late 70's part time 4WD wagons got

I am extremely confused. I posted real-world MPG from 2 AWD vehicles I owned for 14 years. You claimed the published numbers were "far, far lower". I posted the EPA published numbers, which were basically identical to what I observed in my 14 years of ownership - but yet now we're talking about 70's part time 4WD wagons? So....did you have some other publication you looked at when you attempted to refute the evidence I posted?

AWD systems fail all the time.

There are lengthy forums about the Subaru AWD failures including symptoms and common fixes
BMW's xDrive is notorious for epic failures

If Toyota has taken its largely bomb proof part time 4WD and introduced the equivalent of "Shear Pins" to the now unnecessarily complicated system then they sure as hell better make it field serviceable or there are gonna be a lot of pissed off customers

Simply not true on the Subarus - and we currently have 5 or 6 in my extended family (I lose count) and have owned them since 1993. None ever needed anything more than a CV axle (which a FWD would have anyway). As evidenced by the litany of posts after this, not true for Toyotas either. We aren't talking about BMWs either - it's about the highly-proven Toyota systems.

It's been awhile since I've seen a hole dug this deep on a forum .

 

[jayp2]

I am extremely confused. I posted real-world MPG from 2 AWD vehicles I owned for 14 years. You claimed the published numbers were "far, far lower". I posted the EPA published numbers, which were basically identical to what I observed in my 14 years of ownership - but yet now we're talking about 70's part time 4WD wagons? So....did you have some other publication you looked at when you attempted to refute the evidence I posted?


Simply not true on the Subarus - and we currently have 5 or 6 in my extended family (I lose count) and have owned them since 1993. None ever needed anything more than a CV axle (which a FWD would have anyway). As evidenced by the litany of posts after this, not true for Toyotas either. We aren't talking about BMWs either - it's about the highly-proven Toyota systems.

It's been awhile since I've seen a hole dug this deep on a forum .

I dont know why you're confused because there's a ton of documentation avail showing AWD versions getting lower mileage than part time 4WD versions it from gov and non gov sites and forums not to mention manufacturers own sites.....you almost have to suspend reality to assert that more complicated drive train, with more moving parts sending power to twice as many wheels is going to have same efficiency as part time system.

Subaru makes a couple variations of their AWD but there's no shortage of problems and failures

subaru all wheel drive failures at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Rinse and repeat with pretty much every other AWD manufacturers systems

The part time 4WD drive trains in toyota, nissan and many other manufacturers vehicles are pretty much bomb proof and have been for decades

It will be a shame if this turns out to be a common failure on the new toyota's

 

[jerryb]

I always hated full time. the 100 is more fun without it.

Man, isn't that white 200 in the youtube link good looking?
Take that any day over the j250.

 

[M1911]

I always hated full time.

Why?

 

[Rednexus]

Why?

I will admit, not being able to do a burnout and requiring a roll-back wrecker for a tow (though one's never been needed for my GX - just the Subies) can be considered a detraction .

The AWD rally GX aspect more than make up for it though.

 

[jerryb]

you want a thesis? I could write a bit, or is it enough to say being a kid in a snowy state with rear wheel drive celicas was just way more fun than the siroccos, gti s, preludes.

I was just watching the two above arguing over a yet another toyota engine that gets crappy mileage, so really who cares about an extra mile or two? I firmly believe the j250 is inferior to the j150.
Guy is correct though, full time will cost more per mile no matter what anyone says.

Hey rednexus, are you an engineer?

 

[Rednexus]

Hey rednexus, are you an engineer?

Yes.....with five P.E. licenses. Why?

 

[jerryb]

wondering if the cliche was true. Subby buyers being engineers with spreadsheets when they show up at a dealer. From r/askcarsales
No criticism meant.
I compared those boxer sixes to P car's sixes often back in the day.

 

[Rednexus]

wondering if the cliche was true. Subby buyers being engineers with spreadsheets when they show up at a dealer. From r/askcarsales
No criticism meant.
I compared those boxer sixes to P car's sixes often back in the day.

No, it's very true. I have lots of spreadsheets and use them to make financial decisions all the time . Currently have one running comparing using cash to purchase a used 4x4 compact tractor vs. leaving the money invested and buying a new one at 0% interest. Looks like the new one will win out.

I still like Subies but have moved on. After 14 years we were ready for something else and prefer Toyota build quality/reliability (which is better than Subie by quite a bit). Still tons in my family and I help them keep up on maintenance/repairs.

 

[M1911]

you want a thesis? I could write a bit, or is it enough to say being a kid in a snowy state with rear wheel drive celicas was just way more fun than the siroccos, gti s, preludes.

I started driving in 1975 in Chicago, so I have quite a bit of experience driving RWD vehicles in the snow.

And I have no desire to do so again, particularly in a 5,500 lb SUV with an automatic transmission. I remember one snowstorm in the mid 1970s when I drove home 5 miles in a 1972 V6 Capri and kept the rear hung out the entire way just for fun. But I’m not 16 anymore and a 5,500 on truck handles a lot different than a 2,500 lb coupe, and I can’t just depress a clutch either.

 

[stridertexas]

So my Defender’s drivetrain is a …..

j/k ; )

 

[OGBeno]

Funny how everyone is getting a boner and no one has even **bought or driven** said vehicle.

I’m tempted to close this thread just because it’s full of bullshît.

 

[jayp2]

Funny how everyone is getting a boner and no one has even **bought or driven** said vehicle.

I’m tempted to close this thread just because it’s full of bullshît.

Or just combine it with the other bull**** 250 threads and call it "250 Bull**** Dumpster Fire Thread" until it hits US dealers, someone drives one and/or one is sold on BaT for 1.5 quadrillion dollars.

 

[Jetboy]

Would you mind sharing the information which spells out the Tundra and Sequia have heavier duty transfer cases? Interesting statement and like to see some further info on that.

Tundra went a category up in size for the third Gen. The second Gen tundra swapped over mid cycle to the Borg Warner from the aisin. Not sure why, but the aisin was subject to a tsb that I think was due to chain noise. It was an iteration of the same case used in the 100, 200, and 300.

This gen is significantly sized up internally from the outgoing Borg Warner that was an upgrade (?) from the aisin comparable to what's in the 300. I'm not an expert on the JF2 cases, but I think they still use the same chain as the older ones. Probably comparable to the middle one on this table. Chain is bigger and the drive gears are way bigger. It's just a category size up.

 

[2021 LC200]

Tundra went a category up in size for the third Gen. The second Gen tundra swapped over mid cycle to the Borg Warner from the aisin. Not sure why, but the aisin was subject to a tsb that I think was due to chain noise. It was an iteration of the same case used in the 100, 200, and 300.

This gen is significantly sized up internally from the outgoing Borg Warner that was an upgrade (?) from the aisin comparable to what's in the 300. I'm not an expert on the JF2 cases, but I think they still use the same chain as the older ones. Probably comparable to the middle one on this table. Chain is bigger and the drive gears are way bigger. It's just a category size up.

View attachment 3578462

Thanks much for this. For some reason I thought the 200 transfer case had no chain, but it does per the repair manual (see snapshot below).

Looks like changing the oil on the same has added relevance/value and checking the breather hose is in place and in good shape over time to prevent water ingress. Good to know!

 

[MeWantLC]

you want a thesis? I could write a bit, or is it enough to say being a kid in a snowy state with rear wheel drive celicas was just way more fun than the siroccos, gti s, preludes.

I was just watching the two above arguing over a yet another toyota engine that gets crappy mileage, so really who cares about an extra mile or two? I firmly believe the j250 is inferior to the j150.
Guy is correct though, full time will cost more per mile no matter what anyone says.

Hey rednexus, are you an engineer?

You had me at Sirocco...

 

[W4632018]

Tundra went a category up in size for the third Gen. The second Gen tundra swapped over mid cycle to the Borg Warner from the aisin. Not sure why, but the aisin was subject to a tsb that I think was due to chain noise. It was an iteration of the same case used in the 100, 200, and 300.

This gen is significantly sized up internally from the outgoing Borg Warner that was an upgrade (?) from the aisin comparable to what's in the 300. I'm not an expert on the JF2 cases, but I think they still use the same chain as the older ones. Probably comparable to the middle one on this table. Chain is bigger and the drive gears are way bigger. It's just a category size up.

View attachment 3578462

Me brain small. Are you saying the 3rd gen tundra has the strongest transfer case in the full size pick up market?