Regular VS Premium - let’s put an end to an ongoing debate? (1 Viewer)

[04UZJ100]

One of the biggest problems is Ethanol hydroscopic and picks up water everywhere , if your just burning thru gas constantly its not going to be a problem with a modern car . The gasoline business is such a rip off .
There is a reason you can’t put E-10 in a aircraft it absorbs water and will freeze and you crash , but its fine for your car Or small engine .
I know a little about the fuel business ... most gas station franchise have can buy there lower grade gas from any fuel supplier and joe blow thinks there getting name brand gas .
I was at a dinner one day and watched a no brand fuel truck go from a BP gas station drive right across the street to a Sunoco and fuel them up .
Sunoco has not cracked fuel in over 10 years , they just buy the cheapest gas on the market and make there money off the food and snack store , thats why you have not seen Sunoco 94 in all those years they don’t make anything but specialty race fuels .
If your running your vehicle on a regular basis there is really not much choice out there and you really can tell what your getting these days .
Even when I do get Ethanol free gas at the pump I usually do the food dye test on a small sample just to make sure I’m really getting ethanol free , I have been using one station that has allways been pretty good with that .
The last biggest problem comes down to choice , Government should not be partnered with Ethanol business and mandate you use there products when they don’t force automakers to post a actually MPG Test using the gas the Government mandates you use 10%
When your Cheerios has Round Up weed killer in it and the USDA comes out and says its within expectable Toxic levels just because they partner with farmers to grow corn for gas that is totally wrong . Nature valley bars and Cheerios should post the warning Glyphosate in this product and may cause cancer ... this is public knowledge.
Sorry maybe slightly off topic but directly related to Ethanol thanks to growing corn for gas blending .

I am familiar with gasoline blends and third party retailers.

Just because you buy XOM, Sunoco, Phillips, BP, Chevron etc gas DOES NOT mean you're getting gas that they produced, refined, and are now selling.

Gas is sold from refineries on pipelines and blended together not only in the pipeline itself, but at distribution terminals - many of which are owned by much smaller companies. Tanker trucks then load up on the correct grade of gas and literally squirt a pre-determined amount of detergent into the tank based on where its going.

The majors all have their "proprietary" blend of additives that, in reality, are made by only a few companies to begin with.

Gasoline grades are regulated and must meet federal specifications. Refiners will sometimes sell higher octane fluid to mix with off-spec gasoline from another refiner that couldn't meet spec. Bottom line, it all ends up in the same tank and only becomes a "brand" of gas when the detergent is added to the tank at the final destination.

The biggest consideration I take into account is whether the gas is fresh or not. I only use Costco, or other high volume distributors, because I know the gas is not stagnant in storage for an excessive amount of time.

 

[4wheelgreg]

I had a 2010 Tacoma prior to the 2015 Tacoma thats my DD and sold it with 300k only used the cheapest gas but allways added Lucas Upper Cylinder treatment and never had a problem with any of the fuel system . I verify that is had anything to do with the treatment but figure adding a fuel lubricant could not hurt .
Unless I’m one a road trip I try and do the same , Costco seems to be the best , Sam’s is not the best but has a good turn over , you get a good 3 to 6 months before I have seen Phase Separation start from blended gas sitting .

 

[stonepa]

I get the AV gas discussion as I regularly fly a 206 on floats or 150 on skis (depending on the season). I also have been known to leave a car sitting for many months in a marine / high humidity environment. Never had a fuel issue. People say I’m lucky so that may be it.

 

[airdzi]

I find this video from Australia to be very accurate and honest general automotive advice

 

[jackiejay29]

Well, there is a lot of information to support premium fuel, but I have been driving my 2008 Land Cruiser on regular gas for 233K miles, half of it while towing a trailer. So far so good. I doubt I will change my ways for the next quarter million miles. I will report on that next decade.

 

[Madtiger]

Well, there is a lot of information to support premium fuel, but I have been driving my 2008 Land Cruiser on regular gas for 233K miles, half of it while towing a trailer. So far so good. I doubt I will change my ways for the next quarter million miles. I will report on that next decade.

I think that all LC owners SHOULD use regular. The BIG question is with the LX owners…and that is where the debate is.

 

[4wheelgreg]

Premium is just more Ethanol cheap way to boost octane levels ... These days I feel its more about the lubricating additives for fuel pump and injectors . I can say good things about shell 93 cleaners and additives , I do a tank of shell and Techtron once and year in my gas powered vehicles .
Its not like we a are running a carburated high compression big block that can't adjust the timing and need 94+
I had a tundra with a factory TRD Superchrger and that needed high octane and never really used it to its full potential , I was better off with my diesel truck towing .
Any one know if there is a difference in the land cruiser vs tundra motor outside of maybe a set of Cams ... I looked up the cost on a new LC motor was MSRP 32k but selling for 26k ... Thats

 

[Angelo1]

I use 100% gasoline unless I can’t find it.

 

[Kilcarnup]

98 all day every day in the LX.

 

[hankinid]

98 octane, ethanol-free is used in both the LX, Land Cruiser, and Honda ATV...as well as chain saws, weed hackers, brush cutters, and power washers. I add fuel stabilizer to everything but the vehicles. Ethanol in auto applications is bad enough. Leaving ethanol gas in small tools causes the rubber parts in the fuel system to swell, and eventually turn into a sticky gummy rubber mess.

Based on the thread title, there will never be an end to this ongoing debate.

 

[NYC570]

I run 93 octane with whatever ethanol it comes with. Some times I add a bit more ethanol.

 

[Itsky]

Here is an article from an Australian LC site that supports the OP hypothesis.

i read and shared it over 10 years ago (maybe not on this site):

Welcome to Land Cruiser Owners On Line

i ran 91 in my kitted 4runner and always got comparatively good/great mpg to others. I’ve posted my similar belief here and use 91 in lc200.

the article states that you have To do it for 2-3000 Kms and be consistent, which is likely why most never see the benefits

For reference, I have 285/70/17, lifted and with family of 4 with skis. I live 1000 ft elevation. Here are my last five tanks, all include a trip up to ski up in the sierras ~7000ft

- 12/7/20, M: 292.53, G: 17, MPG: 17.21

- 12/29/20, M: 155.61, G: 10.5, MPG: 14.82

- 1/26/21, M: 184.275, G: 13.4, MPG: 13.75

- 1/30/21, M: 197.61, G: 13.1, MPG: 15.08

- 2/7/21, M: 199.185, G: 12.7, MPG: 15.68

 

[Kilcarnup]

Here is an article from an Australian LC site that supports the OP hypothesis.

i read and shared it over 10 years ago (maybe not on this site):

Welcome to Land Cruiser Owners On Line

i ran 91 in my kitted 4runner and always got comparatively good/great mpg to others. I’ve posted my similar belief here and use 91 in lc200.

the article states that you have To do it for 2-3000 Kms and be consistent, which is likely why most never see the benefits

For reference, I have 285/70/17, lifted and with family of 4 with skis. I live 1000 ft elevation. Here are my last five tanks, all include a trip up to ski up in the sierras ~7000ft

- 12/7/20, M: 292.53, G: 17, MPG: 17.21

- 12/29/20, M: 155.61, G: 10.5, MPG: 14.82

- 1/26/21, M: 184.275, G: 13.4, MPG: 13.75

- 1/30/21, M: 197.61, G: 13.1, MPG: 15.08

- 2/7/21, M: 199.185, G: 12.7, MPG: 15.68

If I do our usual Geraldton run to visit family and back (Perth to Geraldton is around 415km or so) I can manage 950km/tank.

I believe that works out to around 18.5mpg, 2 adults 2 kids and a boot load of stuff.

 

[MrX]

FWIW, and all due respect to everyone, I just picked up my truck from an owner who took pristine care of it, so much as to even put aftermarket brakes on it (that are amazing).

I'm sure he always used premium but not one gallon of it will go into it now that I'm the new owner. This is an indestructible, understressed V8, a truck engine. LCs and LXs are built on the same assembly line, same motor, same compression, same everything. It's not a complex motor. I'm not an engineer but I am a college grad FWIW.

It's just BS Lexus marketing. You have to admit it would look a little off to have a $95,000, flagship Lexus truck only require regular when every other vehicle in their lineup asks for premium...including the crappy putt putt crossovers.

I still can't get over how frisky it feels and how fast it accelerates for being so heavy. There are faster BOF SUVs out there in this category, but I'm sure not left wanting for any more power. The throttle mapping is different for the different Toyota trucks this is in? That's interesting. I noticed right off in my LX the throttle is very precise, no doubt designed for off roading and/or towing. My LS430 you just roll into the gas. LX throttle took some getting used to.

We thought about a GX at first, which is more controversial re: regular vs premium because the compression is different between that and the Toyota version. Even then I still wouldn't be too worried about it, but using regular 100% no worries was one of the reasons we decided to go with the LX (among several other reasons). The money saved will add up over time easily, mitigating somewhat the horrendous mileage we get. Now if only gas could go back down to where it was pre-election. I'm not paying $15 extra per tank to fall for Lexus marketing. No offense to those who do use premium.

Now, my LS430 needs premium because it gets sluggish on regular. But it's not a total gas guzzler like the truck.

 

[Madtiger]

FWIW, and all due respect to everyone, I just picked up my truck from an owner who took pristine care of it, so much as to even put aftermarket brakes on it (that are amazing).

I'm sure he always used premium but not one gallon of it will go into it now that I'm the new owner. This is an indestructible, understressed V8, a truck engine. LCs and LXs are built on the same assembly line, same motor, same compression, same everything. It's not a complex motor. I'm not an engineer but I am a college grad FWIW.

It's just BS Lexus marketing. You have to admit it would look a little off to have a $95,000, flagship Lexus truck only require regular when every other vehicle in their lineup asks for premium...including the crappy putt putt crossovers.

I still can't get over how frisky it feels and how fast it accelerates for being so heavy. There are faster BOF SUVs out there in this category, but I'm sure not left wanting for any more power. The throttle mapping is different for the different Toyota trucks this is in? That's interesting. I noticed right off in my LX the throttle is very precise, no doubt designed for off roading and/or towing. My LS430 you just roll into the gas. LX throttle took some getting used to.

We thought about a GX at first, which is more controversial re: regular vs premium because the compression is different between that and the Toyota version. Even then I still wouldn't be too worried about it, but using regular 100% no worries was one of the reasons we decided to go with the LX (among several other reasons). The money saved will add up over time easily, mitigating somewhat the horrendous mileage we get. Now if only gas could go back down to where it was pre-election. I'm not paying $15 extra per tank to fall for Lexus marketing. No offense to those who do use premium.

Now, my LS430 needs premium because it gets sluggish on regular. But it's not a total gas guzzler like the truck.

I think that the RX and ES use regular fuel.

 

[TeCKis300]

FWIW, and all due respect to everyone, I just picked up my truck from an owner who took pristine care of it, so much as to even put aftermarket brakes on it (that are amazing).

I'm sure he always used premium but not one gallon of it will go into it now that I'm the new owner. This is an indestructible, understressed V8, a truck engine. LCs and LXs are built on the same assembly line, same motor, same compression, same everything. It's not a complex motor. I'm not an engineer but I am a college grad FWIW.

It's just BS Lexus marketing. You have to admit it would look a little off to have a $95,000, flagship Lexus truck only require regular when every other vehicle in their lineup asks for premium...including the crappy putt putt crossovers.

I still can't get over how frisky it feels and how fast it accelerates for being so heavy. There are faster BOF SUVs out there in this category, but I'm sure not left wanting for any more power. The throttle mapping is different for the different Toyota trucks this is in? That's interesting. I noticed right off in my LX the throttle is very precise, no doubt designed for off roading and/or towing. My LS430 you just roll into the gas. LX throttle took some getting used to.

We thought about a GX at first, which is more controversial re: regular vs premium because the compression is different between that and the Toyota version. Even then I still wouldn't be too worried about it, but using regular 100% no worries was one of the reasons we decided to go with the LX (among several other reasons). The money saved will add up over time easily, mitigating somewhat the horrendous mileage we get. Now if only gas could go back down to where it was pre-election. I'm not paying $15 extra per tank to fall for Lexus marketing. No offense to those who do use premium.

Now, my LS430 needs premium because it gets sluggish on regular. But it's not a total gas guzzler like the truck.

Do as you wish. As someone on the other side of the fence with a bit more experience actually calibrating motors with software, working in large engineering organization that establishing requirements and testing design margins for a system with engines... calling it marketing BS couldn't be more off the mark. That's not how this stuff works.

Congrats on your new car.

 

[TonyP]

You should watch the recent Engine Masters episode where they test different octane on the same motor. Interesting results.

 

[MrX]

Do as you wish. As someone on the other side of the fence with a bit more experience actually calibrating motors with software, working in large engineering organization that establishing requirements and testing design margins for a system with engines... calling it marketing BS couldn't be more off the mark. That's not how this stuff works.

Congrats on your new car.

Thanks!

Do we have any definitive proof that there are any differences in the engines or ECUs? I’ve done some research over the years and I can’t find any. They’re built on the same line, the same powertrain and bits goes into them all. If you skip premium in the LX you lose 2hp. If you put premium in a LC, you gain 2.

I wouldn’t call it “bs marketing” on an LC500. But this is the Tundra and Land Cruiser engine, a truck engine. They’ll all be just fine on regular, IMO.

 

[Madtiger]

Do as you wish. As someone on the other side of the fence with a bit more experience actually calibrating motors with software, working in large engineering organization that establishing requirements and testing design margins for a system with engines... calling it marketing BS couldn't be more off the mark. That's not how this stuff works.

Congrats on your new car.

Says the guy who tows way over engineering limits of the LX as determined by Lexus…….and lifts it way beyond AHC specs. Oh and put on huge balloon tires that would float even the Titanic.

But one gotta use 93 octane because of his “wealth of experience”….

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks!

Do we have any definitive proof that there are any differences in the engines or ECUs? I’ve done some research over the years and I can’t find any. They’re built on the same line, the same powertrain and bits goes into them all. If you skip premium in the LX you lose 2hp. If you put premium in a LC, you gain 2.

I wouldn’t call it “bs marketing” on an LC500. But this is the Tundra and Land Cruiser engine, a truck engine. They’ll all be just fine on regular, IMO.

It's never been a question of hardware.

Software calibrations can dictate octane requirements. Software doesn't care whether it's built on the same line or not. Same base engine or not. It's a configuration item that tailors hardware. You can presume it's the same software that dynamically adjusts. Yet it's just as possible that it's not because it may not be the optimal calibration strategy for performance targets. The literature is clear. That's a requirement written not by the marketing department when its in the manual. You can again presume what you want, but the information - only definitive information we have - from the horses mouth says explicitly what should be used.

I don't fault anyone that wants to apply their own tailoring, but don't suggest that it's not rooted in legitimate engineering, because that couldn't be further from the truth. It's a huge divide tuning for 87 vs 91 octane.