rear hatch and tailgate delete

[bugsnbikes]

ive got this hairbrained idea that i want to get rid of the rear hatch and tailgate and do a 1piece aluminum hatch that uses the stock hatch hinges and potentially stock lock.

reasons:
1-delete 150lbs (thats just a guess what the 2weigh)(will pull em off soon--im guessing lower might be 60lbs-upper 80/90lbs)

2- planning on doing dual swingouts- and want arb fridge on 1 and bearproof alum. box on other (below the tire).

3- want to mount spare tire on the hatch.

hesitations:

1- structural- ive seen on other threads mention of structural
integrity- not sure if aluminum crossbracing will
be enough.

2- unsure of hatch weight- if its not at least 80lbs--my spare
plus alum. hatch will be too heavy.

heres a pic of the rear with the spot the spare tire will occupy on the aluminum hatch. (high to accomodate box and fridge below)

any other unforseen issues or comments on structural issues?

 

[NorCalDoug]

a couple thoughts...in no particular order...

- that seems awfully high to be hoisting a tire up/down from when you'd need to swap it out.

- with the stock-rated lifts, the tire/hatch set up would be too heavy, but you can get stronger (i.e. higher pound rating) lift arms to replace the stock set up.

- what would you do about rear visibility? no glass? half-glass?
mount a camera back there?

 

[bugsnbikes]

a couple thoughts...in no particular order...

- that seems awfully high to be hoisting a tire up/down from when you'd need to swap it out.

- with the stock-rated lifts, the tire/hatch set up would be too heavy, but you can get stronger (i.e. higher pound rating) lift arms to replace the stock set up.

- what would you do about rear visibility? no glass? half-glass?
mount a camera back there?

Ive been playing with an online metal calculator and came up with 30lbs for the 3/16"-7075 alum and maybe another 10lbs in cross bracing with some channel or square tube. (for the entire alum hatch). That with 55lbs of bfg--and rim weight. Does anyone know what the stock lifts are rated for ????

rear camera would be nice- but id probably do a piece of Lexan glass as i dont have cockpit room for more screens.

 

[retrofive]

Not sure I really like that idea. If I understand correctly, 1 piece with all that attached would suck without assistance to lift.

My hairbrained idea would be to do the opposite, top (roof) latch that lowers your junk...... then again your screwed getting your spare off when you need...........


X2 NorCal - Visibility would be on the top of my prior's

 

[bugsnbikes]

Not sure I really like that idea. If I understand correctly, 1 piece with all that attached would suck without assistance to lift.

My hairbrained idea would be to do the opposite, top (roof) latch that lowers your junk...... then again your screwed getting your spare off when you need...........


X2 NorCal - Visibility would be on the top of my prior's

The box-and ARB fridge- will both be on individual Swingouts(bumper)--the only thing lifting will be the hatch(40lbs) and the spare tire.(70lbs).

My guess is that the stock hatch is around 70-80lbs---which means i would have to bump up the stock lifts a few pounds. (has anyone replaced their rear hatch that might have a guess on weight of that sucker?)

 

[retrofive]

Ahh.. I see where your going now. My bad.

 

[bugsnbikes]

Ahh.. I see where your going now. My bad.

i should have done a better illustration- changed the above one.

Great thoughts thus far- visibility is a big one for sure which will have to be addressed.

 

[mainemike]

It's not about the liftgate support struts, it's the hinges. I'm skeptical the stock liftgate hinges can begin to support that kind of weight. I don't see how you can hope to make a full hatch that weighs only 40 pounds and can hold a spare tire. I think the final piece will be much heavier. To have 50+ pounds of tire mounted high on the rear hatch would constantly be stressing the hinge closest to the unsprung weight of the wheel/tire.

A second concern is low hanging branches or rock walls - if the tire breaks the plane of the roofline or body you will be at risk of peeling the whole thing off if you tag something.

A third concern gets at how much structural integrity the stock tailgate/hatch gives when the truck is twisted up? Sort of like chopping the top without any reinforcement. A 40 pound sheet of aluminum will do nothing in this regard.

It's a grand experiment, but I can't say I see it working out very well...

 

[firetruck41]

It's not about the liftgate support struts, it's the hinges. I'm skeptical the stock liftgate hinges can begin to support that kind of weight. I don't see how you can hope to make a full hatch that weighs only 40 pounds and can hold a spare tire. I think the final piece will be much heavier. To have 50+ pounds of tire mounted high on the rear hatch would constantly be stressing the hinge closest to the unsprung weight of the wheel/tire.

A second concern is low hanging branches or rock walls - if the tire breaks the plane of the roofline or body you will be at risk of peeling the whole thing off if you tag something.

A third concern gets at how much structural integrity the stock tailgate/hatch gives when the truck is twisted up? Sort of like chopping the top without any reinforcement. A 40 pound sheet of aluminum will do nothing in this regard.

It's a grand experiment, but I can't say I see it working out very well...

x2.

Can't see that aluminum tailgate at only 30-50lbs and having the required structural integrity and strength.

 

[sandcruiser]

for a lot of Al ideas, check out OpenX
they built an entire "60" body out of aluminum.

when it was all said and done, the new truck was heavier-- they over-engineered many parts. But in talking with Robin (the builder) a fair amount about the truck, he gave me the impression that the aluminum was awesome for corrosion resistance, but that unless you do curved body parts like Mr. T, you can't really expect the same level of dent resistance unless you go thick, which ends up being heavy.

*edit: the link should be www Newcruiser (dot) ca and for some reason it doesn't seem to be working right now

 

[80t0ylc]

X3 to Mike and Firetruck. Ever see the "hinge" on a tire swingout? Check it out. That will give you an idea of what we're talking about.

Edit: Sandcruiser, I think their server is down. It even fails when you google it.

 

[bugsnbikes]

It's not about the liftgate support struts, it's the hinges. I'm skeptical the stock liftgate hinges can begin to support that kind of weight. I don't see how you can hope to make a full hatch that weighs only 40 pounds and can hold a spare tire. I think the final piece will be much heavier. To have 50+ pounds of tire mounted high on the rear hatch would constantly be stressing the hinge closest to the unsprung weight of the wheel/tire.

A second concern is low hanging branches or rock walls - if the tire breaks the plane of the roofline or body you will be at risk of peeling the whole thing off if you tag something.

A third concern gets at how much structural integrity the stock tailgate/hatch gives when the truck is twisted up? Sort of like chopping the top without any reinforcement. A 40 pound sheet of aluminum will do nothing in this regard.

It's a grand experiment, but I can't say I see it working out very well...

im in total agreement on the hinge skepticism- and planned to initially only undertake the project if the actual weight of the stock hatch was close to 80lbs+........and a nominal 30-40lb total increase with tire and alum hatch. (which i think is fairly close)

The structural issues are of more concern and my initial thought was a full 1 piece hatch ---but that would omit the lower two tie in points of any structural significance. (the stock hatch basically ties all 6 points together for strength as in pic 1 below)

Mr T loses out on much of the triangulation due to the window(green area) and makes up for that loss with added beefiness around the window area as well as the heft of the steel.(which is why its a super heavy hatch)

My basic idea was to capitalize on the stock hinge/tie in points and capitalize on the great triangulation of the stock points of connection lost out by the window in Mr. Ts take.
View attachment 329275

 

[Nay]

Hey, I like that bumper

My suggestion for this project:

Buy a trailer.

That's what I am going to do.

 

[reverie]

If I recall correctly, those who are chopping the whole top are only losing 200 pounds.
Interesting idea, but don't do it for weight savings.

 

[reverie]

Nay:

What kind of trailer?
Give us a link!

 

[reverie]

If the structure works out, don't forget that with an offset spare, two differently rated lifts may be optimal for smooth operation.

 

[G-Cat]

My main concern, looking at your picture, is that you plan to run a 37" tire on, like, a 14" wheel. I don't think anyone makes this size, for one, and it doesn't look too good.

You might try a 16-17" wheel.

Seriousely, though, the 3rd Gen 4Runners have a one-piece lift-gate and I would assume that the LCs are more over-engineered than the Runners...I would think the Cruiser's hinges might be up to it.

 

[Flank]

Thoughts, if you wanted a hatch to carry the load of a spare tire and the hatch, this could be upwards of 150lbs total (my spare Xterrain on a steel rim is at least 75lbs), and a top hinge would be carrying a LOT a weight. Hatch would be heavy to lift / hold.

OTOH... look at FJ cruiser and Rover single piece hatches -single piece that swings to the side. Brace / reinforce the D piller and find some monster hinges for the side. Weight would not have to travel up and fall down... you could then incorporate tire carrier and fridge carrier into the hatch design for snug fit.

Now all you gotta do is make it work...

 

[Dusty]

I have thought about replacing the hatch also and having a hatch that incorporates the tire carrier. im halfway through with my massive tire carrier which swings down on 2 heim joints and have thought how cool it would be if the hatch had the tire carrier on it and the whole thing just swung up.

the rear of the cruiser where the current oe hinge resides is probably plenty strong to hold a hatch with a tire attached. why dont you just make a subassembly to hold the tire that bolts on the back of the hatch and see what happens??

once the hatch is closed the hinges are pretty safe. the question is if the hinges can hold the tire durring opening. ill bet they can. just get some killer lift pistons.

or why not replace the oe hinges with something more beefy?

 

[bugsnbikes]

Hey, I like that bumper

My suggestion for this project:

Buy a trailer.

That's what I am going to do.

Trailers are for people who just cant accept they are 1 step from a lift kit for a Winnebago!

Im a minimalist- me and girlfriend......no kids - so the cruiser is PLENTY of room and no trailer is needed. I do realize everyone has different needs--and trailers do have their place........(with the winnebago-minivan crowd)

The main reason is for ease of tucking up the arb and bearproof box. The tailgate is a good 3" depth--and would allow the box/fridge to snug up nicely into the recess assuming the aluminum hatch were fairly slim. (was contemplating no more than 1"square tube for crossbracing/triangulation.) ALSO--deleting 100+lbs would be sweet. The spare tire would also snug up nicely if mounted on the hatch.

Finally- id like to get the big heavy items like ARB and bearbox out of the cabin----so pulling into camp would entail alot less moving gear around. Currently i have a full length interior bed with 2cnd and 3rd row seats deleted. With the height of 6"---i still get 32" headroom......60" width sleeping area and rivals a rooftop tent IF there is minimal unloading of the bed area. Luckily underneath the bed/storage holds almost everything and currently chairs-propane tank-arb fridge-coleman cooler- and bearproof box reside above. With those two larger/heavy items gone----im guessing the unloading of the few items left would take alot less time than your average RTT setup.