question on 85 vs mid 1990's four runner

[missouriman]

so I see that the ring and pinion are larger.

bobby long makes axles for the front.

I can make sliders, bumber, skid plates.


so that leaves the transfercase, what options are out there?
marlin makes a lot of adaptors for his 23 spline.
would the 4 cylinder cases hold up to a I6?

sounds like if I go with the 80 I would be best off to try to sell off my toyota mini collection!!


four runner sounds like I could use most of my parts.

 

[jynx]

If you can figure out a t-case setup that will drop in you will be a rich man. The rear axle is offset like most all the cruisers. This combined with the gas tank location make all of the adapters and couplers useless without some serious mods. Marlin makes a low range gear set, as does Mark's offroad. Marks makes a doubler but it requires a good bit of fab work to accommodate. I have seen guys swap in manual transmissions and add divorced cases from earlier FJ series vehicles.

Both available low range gear sets also lower the high side gears too, so you end up slightly lower across the board.

I actually bought my 80 because we were expecting and needed another vehicle that could carry the family. We wheeled all day last fall with Baby girl sleeping comfortably in the back. With 5.29s, 35s in 1st gear low range the brakes had to work to stop it under idle.

As far as size, compared to an 85 it will look huge, but if you put it next to a 90-95 4 door, length isn't as noticeable, but they are a good bit wider. Interior room is nice to have when trucking around all the stuff that comes with a little one, and they make great expedition vehicles, so an arb fridge/freezer, etc. and you would be good for all weekend with room to spare.

It kinda depends on what your comfort level is. A decent 90-95 4runner could be built up into a nice rig. I will throw another wrench in the cogs and say for highway driving, the 22RE is going to be pretty taxed hauling around the extra weight of the later runners. Most of the came with the 3.0 V6, which has a pretty bad wrap, honestly I am not sure and I am rebuilding one for my 88 project now. An SAS is no problem with all the aftermarket support these days.

Speaking of aftermarket, that is one more thing about the 80 series, they do not have near the aftermarket support of the minis and as such the market is a little more specialized. Parts are not as easy to come by and tend to be a little more as well.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

If you can figure out a t-case setup that will drop in you will be a rich man. The rear axle is offset like most all the cruisers. This combined with the gas tank location make all of the adapters and couplers useless without some serious mods. Marlin makes a low range gear set, as does Mark's offroad. Marks makes a doubler but it requires a good bit of fab work to accommodate. I have seen guys swap in manual transmissions and add divorced cases from earlier FJ series vehicles.

Both available low range gear sets also lower the high side gears too, so you end up slightly lower across the board.

I actually bought my 80 because we were expecting and needed another vehicle that could carry the family. We wheeled all day last fall with Baby girl sleeping comfortably in the back. With 5.29s, 35s in 1st gear low range the brakes had to work to stop it under idle.

As far as size, compared to an 85 it will look huge, but if you put it next to a 90-95 4 door, length isn't as noticeable, but they are a good bit wider. Interior room is nice to have when trucking around all the stuff that comes with a little one, and they make great expedition vehicles, so an arb fridge/freezer, etc. and you would be good for all weekend with room to spare.

It kinda depends on what your comfort level is. A decent 90-95 4runner could be built up into a nice rig. I will throw another wrench in the cogs and say for highway driving, the 22RE is going to be pretty taxed hauling around the extra weight of the later runners. Most of the came with the 3.0 V6, which has a pretty bad wrap, honestly I am not sure and I am rebuilding one for my 88 project now. An SAS is no problem with all the aftermarket support these days.

Speaking of aftermarket, that is one more thing about the 80 series, they do not have near the aftermarket support of the minis and as such the market is a little more specialized. Parts are not as easy to come by and tend to be a little more as well.

Well written and agree with everything. I will add though that thre are plenty of 80 vendors and options when it comes to bumpers, sliders, and lifts. Not nearly as many options for armor but there are some options out there for that as well.

 

[missouriman]

5VZ-E, so what years is this motor in?
what transmission is behind it.

I think we are going 4 runner just due to the amount of parts that I have for the mini trucks.

dang it you guys are making me really struggle with this one.
the bigger diffs would be nice. but our trails are also very narrow.

just need to figure out what motor, year, four runner to buy. I just don't have the money for the 80s that are for sale around here. plus all the up grades.

 

[KLF]

so I see that the ring and pinion are larger.

Only in the rear. The front is the same 8", but it is a hi-pinion.

 

[missouriman]

5VZ-E, so what years is this motor in?


I have been stuck in the 85 mini's. as they are the bastard year. last of the solid axle and first of the fuel injection. from what I understand is that the 85s are different from any other year of the fuel injection.....

will the later injectors match up or work in shape and size on the older intakes.. or can I just use the later intake and injectors on my 85 motor... Just that I have like 3 extra motors of the 85 vintage in my garage ready to go... as we beat these motors harder then any other motor that I have seen hold up to this abuse... still have not swaped one out...


going to check that timing chain stuff. sure would be nice to have the power that I built and paid for...

what do I look for on that. line it up at zero.. look at the cam.. what should I see... the rockers should be loose on cylinder 1.. correct??

 

[WarDamnEagle]

will the later injectors match up or work in shape and size on the older intakes.. or can I just use the later intake and injectors on my 85 motor...

You need to keep the 85 injectors but you can swap in an intake from anything up to a 95. Just use your injectors. Your injectors will fit into the later fuel rail but the later injectors won't plug into your harness.

 

[missouriman]

not sure if there is a bit of confusion here. I if needed would be using my older block or motor in the newer 4 runner.

so I thought I could use the newer injectors in my older motor along with the newer intake.

the new intake and injectors and computer should work with my older block... right????

 

[WarDamnEagle]

not sure if there is a bit of confusion here. I if needed would be using my older block or motor in the newer 4 runner.

so I thought I could use the newer injectors in my older motor along with the newer intake.

the new intake and injectors and computer should work with my older block... right????

Yes that would work. The injectors, harness and computer need to stay together so the ones from the newer 4Runner can be used with an 85 engine. This info is only valid up to a 95 and obviously only if the new 4Runner originally came with the 22RE.

 

[missouriman]

OK,, so I would be buying the four runner with the bigger motor if possible and parts would fit.

so since I am looking at a 22re four runner, IF the motor is old or worn out I would use my 85 motor, trans, dual transfercases.

I would use the newer intake, injectors. it should bolt right in.. guess that is my question.

I would also look into that timing chain question above. my motor is balanced, blue printed, arp rod bolts. 20 over on the bore. larger valves. header. it is built the same as DOA'S 150 hp motor. but has never put out that much power.

 

[missouriman]

I have high hopes for that timeing chain thing. My wife can be behind me going up hill in 4th and still has peddle left over. same hill I am in 3rd gear and slowing down.

It would seem like with her unknown junk yard motor she has maybe 30 to 45 hp more then me..

in the above she, in 4th gear can speed up and catch up with me.

I have maybe 300 pounds more in the tool box then she dose.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

OK,, so I would be buying the four runner with the bigger motor if possible and parts would fit.

so since I am looking at a 22re four runner, IF the motor is old or worn out I would use my 85 motor, trans, dual transfercases.

I would use the newer intake, injectors. it should bolt right in.. guess that is my question.

I would also look into that timing chain question above. my motor is balanced, blue printed, arp rod bolts. 20 over on the bore. larger valves. header. it is built the same as DOA'S 150 hp motor. but has never put out that much power.

That's a very confusing post. Which is correct, the first sentence or the second sentence? Are you buying a 4Runner with the larger motor or one that originally came with a 22RE?

 

[missouriman]

to be very honest and looking for an excuse for my motor..

there is a rummor that her motor was built by a guy down in colorado. and is really built to put out more then my built motor..

no way to find the truth on that one. No idea of the spects on the rummor motor.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I would also vote for an 80-Series. 37's and 5.29 axle gears crawls just fine with the auto... Part out what you have and go buy one.

 

[missouriman]

That's a very confusing post. Which is correct, the first sentence or the second sentence? Are you buying a 4Runner with the larger motor or one that originally came with a 22RE?

would like one with the bigger motor.


looking at one that has the 22re.

 

[jynx]

If you want to swap your block in with minimal work you will have to find a 90-95 that came from the factory with a 22re. They are kinda rare in that vintage but can be found. Most of these 4runners came with the 3.0 3VZN series motors due to the extra size and weight. Once you cross over 95 you get into the 3.4 5vfz v6 and the newer 4 cyl motors, neither of which are going to be reverse compatible with a swap to your motors.

In theory if you found a 90-95 4cyl 4runner you could pull the entire drivetrain, swap in your short block, trans, cases, etc. Then bolt on the efi set-up from the newer runner and be good to go.

I will throw this cog out for consideration, I was doing some research the other day because I am in the market for a good short block myself, and from what I read, some of the early 85 blocks may be very different than what I have seen referred to as the later "laser blocks" has something to do with a turbo oiling port cast into the side of the block. From what I read briefly it sounded like the difference from the early to late 22r to re blocks was different in bore, stroke, etc. so I would do some reading to make sure the block swap is doable before I got too far down that road.

If you can swing it and are willing to try it, the 95.5 -02ish (I think) V6 4runners can be had reasonably (at least around here) have the 3.4L v6, 4 doors, nice creature comforts, maintain the smaller size (still bigger than your 85) and there are alot of options that would make them very capable trail rigs for family type trips. My wife and I were looking hard in this direction before I found my 80.

I will agree that if you are buying an 80 and budget is in mind, try to find one with some upgrades already installed, otherwise a later model 4runner might fit the bill.

Mainly it is going to come down to how bad you want to swap your motor vs. jumping into a new arena.

Best of luck.

 

[flash02]

OK,, so I would be buying the four runner with the bigger motor if possible and parts would fit.

so since I am looking at a 22re four runner, IF the motor is old or worn out I would use my 85 motor, trans, dual transfercases.

I would use the newer intake, injectors. it should bolt right in.. guess that is my question.

I would also look into that timing chain question above. my motor is balanced, blue printed, arp rod bolts. 20 over on the bore. larger valves. header. it is built the same as DOA'S 150 hp motor. but has never put out that much power.

I think the injectors changed in 92, however there are slight changes throughout the years, I have an 86 which is different then 85's and I think the 87's were a bitt different as well. The best bet for a 22RE is a 92 and up upper intake and throttle body, this allows the engine to breathe a bit better as well as it removes the troublesome aux air valve. Also consider the following when adding parts to your engine; complete intake runner and plenum clean, send out the injectors to have them ultrasonically cleaned a checked for proper operation, consider having the throttle body and upper plenum bored, LC Engineering and Max Bore provide this service, add a free flowing exhaust, no need for a header as the stock manifold flows nicely, check the EFI harness to make sure all the injector splices are clean. The biggest problem I have with my DD 86 4Runner is old wires and brittle connectors, corrosion and botch wiring jobs have caused me loads of issues. Although I do like my 86 runner I would like a bit more power, but 22mpg on the highway coupled with a fun nimble classic Off Road Vehicle (ORV) is a blast.
Good luck on your quest to find what you are looking for,

oh and if you are tempted to get an 80 series, like me, consider the following; about 16MPG highway, and VERY expensive parts. I had a 74 FJ40, the truck was in great shape and ran very well, however every time I needed a part it seemed like it was a minimum of $100.00, not to mention horrific MPG,s, that's why I sold it and got my Runner, I payed $500.00 and have put about $2500.00 into it, I have a somewhat modern ORV with cold AC, Hot heat, new engine and good breaks and it is not too bad when it comes to replacing parts.

 

[KLF]

I think the injectors changed in 92, however there are slight changes throughout the years, I have an 86 which is different then 85's and I think the 87's were a bitt different as well.

I have my '87 and a spare set of '89 injectors, the plugs are different.

The best bet for a 22RE is a 92 and up upper intake and throttle body, this allows the engine to breathe a bit better as well as it removes the troublesome aux air valve.

This change actually happened in '89.

 

[flash02]

I have my '87 and a spare set of '89 injectors, the plugs are different.

This change actually happened in '89.

Very good info, so the big change was in 89, thanks for the correction

 

[Hadmatt54]

Quote:

I think the injectors changed in 92, however there are slight changes throughout the years, I have an 86 which is different then 85's and I think the 87's were a bitt different as well.

Originally Posted by KLF

I have my '87 and a spare set of '89 injectors, the plugs are different.

This change actually happened in '89.

Very good info, so the big change was in 89, thanks for the correction

Actually the injector change was mid 88. Before that the 22-re had low impedence injectors (1.5-3.0 ohms) and they had a solenoid resistor built into the body harness that was located on the passengers side inside fender. The chamge that Toyota made was to eliminate the solenoid resistor and change the injectors to high impedence (approx 13 ohms). As stated before the plugs are different.
As far as the differences in the engine...if your truck engine was an 85 factory 22-re then you have the same block as a 95 22-re.
Check the tech section of LC Engineering, so all you have to do is find a 4Runner that was factory 22-re, install the newer intake and injectors on your engine and it is a dropin installation.
Having said that depending on what gear ratios you want in your differentials will determine which 4Runner to buy. For example: 85 and up 22-re trucks with a manual had 4.10 gears, auto trucks came with 4.30 gears, 3vz manuals with a r150f transmission had 4.30 gears and 3vz autos had factory 4.88 gears.