Pump set-up for hydraulic winch

[wildsmith]

I have a 10500lb 2 speed fitted which was second hand when I got it 6 years ago. May be I should get a new 12000lb if they're faster.

The type R isn't (AFAIK) an official MM thing, it's a modified MM system produced by Alfred Murray Ltd in the UK (http://www.4x4winches.com/index.php?page=type_r.htm) . 3 years ago I thought I might do some winch challenges which would be a none starter with my current winch so I bought a type R system. Turns out winch challenges don't excite me after all so it never got installed

This thread / you have got me thinking about it again though

 

[landtank]

Stop posting BS here.

ease up, Eric is just posting what he was told by the manufacturer.

 

[Bear80]

Well I'm not really trying to direct anything towards Eric. I know he's just passing on his info but it's just others will skim over these threads and pick up what he posted. I just want to make it clear that even the tech at MM didn't have solid information.

 

[e9999]

Well I'm not really trying to direct anything towards Eric. I know he's just passing on his info but it's just others will skim over these threads and pick up what he posted. I just want to make it clear that even the tech at MM didn't have solid information.

whereas I have no doubt that it is entirely possible that the tech at MM didn't have solid info, I can't -unlike you apparently- read his mind or know exactly what he was aware of or not. Given that, and in the absence of more detailed info that I know I can trust, I'll take the manufacturer tech's word for the time being against any forum poster regardless of how much they are spouting off until I'm convinced the latter have better credentials on the subject.



added: and -needless to say- there are indeed plenty of posters on this site whose opinions I do respect and whose advice I will take seriously on this or many other topics. LT is one of them for that matter.

 

[Bear80]

I know I come off sounding like a whinny poster here, but it only takes 5 mins to read the FSM and see the bypass for the pump kicks in at 1500psi. I think without speaking to a tech, which is not likely the one who designed the product one could make their own assumptions. There is always the likely hood that a manufacture obatined incorrect numbers for another product. Just like how Discount tire wants to torque my lug nuts to 100lb/ft instead of the correct 78lb/ft. I agree with you not to take a person's word for things, but it is also important for me to verify hard facts for myself.

btw, PRK -- we talking South Korea??

 

[suprathepeg]

The PS pump on the 92&93 3.0 3vzfe camry engines turns the cooling fan on the car as well as the steering maybe it pumps more volume which might be a solution to the speed issue and the keeping it Toyota issue.

 

[jasonmt]

I know I come off sounding like a whinny poster here, but it only takes 5 mins to read the FSM and see the bypass for the pump kicks in at 1500psi. I think without speaking to a tech, which is not likely the one who designed the product one could make their own assumptions. There is always the likely hood that a manufacture obatined incorrect numbers for another product. Just like how Discount tire wants to torque my lug nuts to 100lb/ft instead of the correct 78lb/ft. I agree with you not to take a person's word for things, but it is also important for me to verify hard facts for myself.

btw, PRK -- we talking South Korea??

I know that the 12K MM Hydro I have on the F-550 (work truck) works 10 times better powered by a PTO driven hydro pump (20GPM @ 2000psi, new solenoids rated for the flow and a spool valve) when compared to the original install with the power steering pump.

The FSM I have shows this, but then again I also would not presume that a Australian 80 series would only have a 1FZ...

 

[Bear80]

That show's the minimum pressure of 1,138psi, I belive if you read on there is the max psi for the bypass to open at which is just about 1500psi.

By working "better" do you mean faster or did you notice it not stall while pulling a similar load that previously stalled it?

 

[Brad.S]

Does anyone know what the flow rate of the 95' 1FZ-FE PS p/p is? I don't have a FSM. I had a look at the MM info for the 10500 and all the performance figures are given at 3.5GPM @ 1500PSI. I am not after comp speed winch pulls so from the above replies I believe the PS p/p will be sufficient.

 

[Bear80]

There is no flow rate listed in the FSM's. I don't know where you could find a creditable source for that.

 

[landtank]

I put a hand throttle on my truck so when winching I can raise the RPMs a little which helps with the flow.

 

[sleeoffroad]

FWIW, we ditched the stock power steering pump when we went full hydro on the Short bus. We mounted it below where the idler pulley was for the AC belt. Worked okl, but you might ask what does this have to do with anything.

Well, we spent some time last week and remounted it using the York bracket and additional pulley we sell. Now it is mounted out of harms way. This might be a good option if you want to run a MM winch and use a separate hydraulic pump.

 

[Bear80]

Do you have the pump specs by chance? And I assume you could make a few extra brackets?

 

[Tool Pusher]

Christo,
What is the pump you used and what are its specs?

Thanks, David Sword

 

[IBCRUSN]

IIRC it's a PSC system.

Well, we spent some time last week and remounted it using the York bracket and additional pulley we sell. Now it is mounted out of harms way. This might be a good option if you want to run a MM winch and use a separate hydraulic pump.

Christo,

How & where did you mount the reservoir? When you and I spoke about the option of running an additional pump in that location it was agreed that it was less than ideal due to the height of the pump relative to the reservoir. If you came up with a solution that's great
Have any more pics of the install?

 

[EricG]

FWIW, we ditched the stock power steering pump when we went full hydro on the Short bus. We mounted it below where the idler pulley was for the AC belt. Worked okl, but you might ask what does this have to do with anything.

Well, we spent some time last week and remounted it using the York bracket and additional pulley we sell. Now it is mounted out of harms way. This might be a good option if you want to run a MM winch and use a separate hydraulic pump.

mmmm ... fresh meat!
And another reason to consider getting rid of the PAIR valve.

 

[jasonmt]

That show's the minimum pressure of 1,138psi, I belive if you read on there is the max psi for the bypass to open at which is just about 1500psi.

By working "better" do you mean faster or did you notice it not stall while pulling a similar load that previously stalled it?

I cannot find the maximum allowable pressure for the bypass to relieve at in the FSM I have, the minimum number is much more important in my mind because it represents the most conservative performance figures from a properly functioning pump. Without having tested your particular setup under operating conditions I fail to see where the 1500psi figure could be considered valid for a single case, yet alone be applied to all cases which you seem to be doing.

To put figures to it someone with a MM 12K rated for 12K line pull @ 1500psi could see only ~9100#'s with a perfectly functioning 3FE PS pump or ~9600#'s if they have a 1HD/1HZ. Given this MM would appear to be basing the advice given to other posters in this thread on the most conservative figures which is admirable.

My truck at idle will spool in 100' of cable in around 2 minutes with the winch in low gear, high gear and 100' is ~20 seconds. With a stock PS setup it took close to 3 minutes to spool in 100' of cable in high and with the spool valve I can control the winch speed from infinitely slow to the speeds shown above. As well if I have an issue with the hydraulic system my trucks brakes and steering remain unaffected.

 

[Brad.S]

FWIW, we ditched the stock power steering pump when we went full hydro on the Short bus. We mounted it below where the idler pulley was for the AC belt. Worked okl, but you might ask what does this have to do with anything.

Well, we spent some time last week and remounted it using the York bracket and additional pulley we sell. Now it is mounted out of harms way. This might be a good option if you want to run a MM winch and use a separate hydraulic pump.

What pump is that, that you are using? do you sell them? how much for the complete set-up (pump, braket, pulley).

 

[Bear80]

I cannot find the maximum allowable pressure for the bypass to relieve at in the FSM I have, the minimum number is much more important in my mind because it represents the most conservative performance figures from a properly functioning pump. Without having tested your particular setup under operating conditions I fail to see where the 1500psi figure could be considered valid for a single case, yet alone be applied to all cases which you seem to be doing.

To put figures to it someone with a MM 12K rated for 12K line pull @ 1500psi could see only ~9100#'s with a perfectly functioning 3FE PS pump or ~9600#'s if they have a 1HD/1HZ. Given this MM would appear to be basing the advice given to other posters in this thread on the most conservative figures which is admirable.

I do stand corrected. I took a look again and could not find that maximum number in the FSM, come to find out I got it from a Mitchell on demand system. The Mitchell system has a slightly different number for the minimun value than what the FSM has listed, so the validity of the maximum value is questionable. It's my fault for confusing the sources and quoting questionable numbers. Again though, calling bs on the MM figures was not inteneded to be negative to Eric. I appologize for being an idiot. :whoops:

 

[e9999]

I do stand corrected. I took a look again and could not find that maximum number in the FSM, come to find out I got it from a Mitchell on demand system. The Mitchell system has a slightly different number for the minimun value than what the FSM has listed, so the validity of the maximum value is questionable. It's my fault for confusing the sources and quoting questionable numbers. Again though, calling bs on the MM figures was not inteneded to be negative to Eric. I appologize for being an idiot. :whoops:

no offense taken