Price Negotiation

[joseywales]

My last new diesel was a 2014 Ram 3500. I won’t be buying another new diesel in this era unless it’s in a boat. When I sold my ‘14 back in 2020, I bought a 2005 with the 5.9 Cummins. If I had a gun to my head and had to buy a new fullsize pickup, it would be a Power Wagon. I don’t ever tow much more than 6-7,000 lbs these days, so that’s plenty of truck.

 

[jmdaniel]

I sat in a 1958 with a young salesman who was quite candid when I commented on all the Tacomas. He said “we can’t give them away”. I’m paraphrasing of course, but he said they just aren’t selling. I told him the rear seat area was too small in our 2020 DC Tacoma, and he told me the current generation is even a bit smaller!

I wish they still offered the Access Cab, in something other than the stripped down fleet vehicle. My '07 was that, and was probably enough truck for what I need now. It was the perfect combination of just enough behind the front row, and with a 6' bed.

 

[Specialeyes]

I wish they still offered the Access Cab, in something other than the stripped down fleet vehicle. My '07 was that, and was probably enough truck for what I need now. It was the perfect combination of just enough behind the front row, and with a 6' bed.

I wish they had kept the Tundra footprint in line with the original gen 1 instead of trying to keep up with the big 3 in the "bigger is better" arms race. Gen 1 Tundra IMO is perfect truck for space and utility. Not too big, not too small. Just right.

 

[Rednexus]

I wish they had kept the Tundra footprint in line with the original gen 1 instead of trying to keep up with the big 3 in the "bigger is better" arms race. Gen 1 Tundra IMO is perfect truck for space and utility. Not too big, not too small. Just right.

Love the Gen 1 Tundra (other than the front lower ball joint design). Clean/simple looks, 2UZ, perfect size, good enough tow capacity, relatively beefy 8.4 rear end with a stud girdle, etc. My buddy has an '02 TRD Access Cab with a camper shell - gotta be honest, he can carry way more stuff than my GX can and has a much more comfortable arrangement for sleeping inside the rig. I think they make a great, albeit under-utilized, overlanding platform for all of those reasons - especially with a real hard camper shell.

Someone should compare the Gen 1 Tundra size with the 4th gen Tacoma size. I'm betting the are very, very close.

 

[Specialeyes]

Love the Gen 1 Tundra (other than the front lower ball joint design). Clean/simple looks, 2UZ, perfect size, good enough tow capacity, relatively beefy 8.4 rear end with a stud girdle, etc. My buddy has an '02 TRD Access Cab with a camper shell - gotta be honest, he can carry way more stuff than my GX can and has a much more comfortable arrangement for sleeping inside the rig. I think they make a great, albeit under-utilized, overlanding platform for all of those reasons - especially with a real hard camper shell.

Someone should compare the Gen 1 Tundra size with the 4th gen Tacoma size. I'm betting the are very, very close.

Exterior wise they are close I'd wager. But interior space not so much... at least not for the back seat. Also bed space and ease of access has gotten worse with modern day pick ups.

 

[joseywales]

Gen 1 Tundra IMO is perfect truck for space and utility. Not too big, not too small. Just right.

This is why I will keep my ‘03 Sequoia for as long as I can. It’s the perfect size!

 

[Rednexus]

Exterior wise they are close I'd wager. But interior space not so much... at least not for the back seat. Also bed space and ease of access has gotten worse with modern day pick ups.

Agreed, belt line and bed sides are far too high and near impossible to load or actually use on most every modern truck.

Also, the rockers/bed on the 1st gen Tundra sit super high. Kind of like a 3rd gen 4Runner. With a mild lift they have a ton of clearance for wheeling without bashing up the body.

 

[JBR14]

Phew.... this thread deviated from the stated topic quickly. 1 page (maybe) on topic, then 8 of the direction of Toyota, Ford, etc. Just an observation from someone new to this site.

 

[Specialeyes]

Phew.... this thread deviated from the stated topic quickly. 1 page (maybe) on topic, then 8 of the direction of Toyota, Ford, etc. Just an observation from someone new to this site.

Welcome to Mud. It happens but most of the time I think you will find it to be a fun and resourceful outlet. At least you didn't stumble into one of the "is it a real land cruiser?" threads .

 

[MRego]

At least you didn't stumble into one of the "is it a real land cruiser?" threads .

Just a matter of time.

 

[joseywales]

On paper i like both the LC250 (as a Toyota hybrid owner) and the GX550. The expensive/reliability asterisk still applies, given the engine and trans failures.

Has there been any engine or trans failures in the 250s yet? I’m aware of the V6 engine failures in the Tundras, and have heard reports of transmission issues, but I can’t recall if it was Taco or Tundra. We talked to a dealer yesterday while having another look at a LC Premium and he said Toyota tech reps told him there were “differences” between the Tacoma running gear and the 250. We both suspect that was BS, but that’s what they were apparently claiming.

 

[joseywales]

If I were to buy a new truck today it would be a F-150 with the 5.0 V8. If it wasn't new, it would be a 2021 or older Tundra, MPGs be damned.

MPGs be damned is right! My current 2019 Platinum with 2” lift and 33” tall “35s” gets at very best 13 mpg on the highway. Load it up or hitch a trailer to it and you can look forward to 8 mpg. On my last trip over the mountains I saw a whopping 7 mpg on the “lie-o-meter” which is usually optimistic. On top of that, within 1/2 to 3/4 hour of leaving on a longer drive, my legs and ass and back are hurting from the seats. You’d think a Platinum would have the best seats, but in reality, we take the 400,000 old ‘03 SR5 Sequoia on our longer trips as it is FAR more comfortable. For the record, I’m 5’10” 185 lbs. so “average” sized. I think the new Tundra seats like in my 2019 are made for “Big Gulp” sized folks.

 

[Matsayz]

Has there been any engine or trans failures in the 250s yet? I’m aware of the V6 engine failures in the Tundras, and have heard reports of transmission issues, but I can’t recall if it was Taco or Tundra. We talked to a dealer yesterday while having another look at a LC Premium and he said Toyota tech reps told him there were “differences” between the Tacoma running gear and the 250. We both suspect that was BS, but that’s what they were apparently claiming.

Yerp, a couple mentions f Transmission failures on LC Forum

 

[Rednexus]

MPGs be damned is right! My current 2019 Platinum with 2” lift and 33” tall “35s” gets at very best 13 mpg on the highway. Load it up or hitch a trailer to it and you can look forward to 8 mpg. On my last trip over the mountains I saw a whopping 7 mpg on the “lie-o-meter” which is usually optimistic. On top of that, within 1/2 to 3/4 hour of leaving on a longer drive, my legs and ass and back are hurting from the seats. You’d think a Platinum would have the best seats, but in reality, we take the 400,000 old ‘03 SR5 Sequoia on our longer trips as it is FAR more comfortable. For the record, I’m 5’10” 185 lbs. so “average” sized. I think the new Tundra seats like in my 2019 are made for “Big Gulp” sized folks.

I remember looking at the Tundra circa 2017 or so and seeing how far behind the domestic half-tons it was in terms of fuel efficency. BUT, all of the domestic rigs from that same time frame have issues - cam/lifter failures in the Hemi, similar issues in the LS, and turbo/timing chain issues in the Ecoboost (hence the 5.0 seeming to be the one to get). The Chevy/Ram trucks from that vintage are already rusting out here too, and we aren't that far north!

Can't comment on the Tundra comfort as I don't have one, but my GX is super-comfortable, and so is our Highlander. I just like vehicles that aren't falling apart at <10 yearss and <200K of driving.

 

[joseywales]

Yerp, a couple mentions f Transmission failures on LC Forum

Is this not “THE Land Cruiser forum”? There can be no other.

 

[joseywales]

Can't comment on the Tundra comfort as I don't have one, but my GX is super-comfortable, and so is our Highlander. I just like vehicles that aren't falling apart at <10 yearss and <200K of driving.

GX is designed and built in Japan. Not sure on Highlander. But my thoughts are it’s the USA designed trucks that are built for USA type people and usage that tend to be less comfortable for smaller people They have to be in order to compete in the “fullsize world”. The 1st Gen Tundra and Sequoia had more Japanese DNA, and feel more like a Toyota should.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Matsayz]

Is this not “THE Land Cruiser forum”? There can be no other.

.com…………

 

[joseywales]

.com…………

I have know idea what this means.

What I meant was “pics, or it didn’t happen”.






Or something like that.

 

[joseywales]

Seems like I will have an opportunity to negotiate on my price soon some more. The 1958 we had our name on got switched to a LC trim level by Toyota and their allotment elves. I want a 1958, so if we are waiting longer, I can look elsewhere other than my current dealer. I find it disappointing that Toyota would change the spec on a car with a deposit on it. But it seems “disappointment for all” is Toyota’s new corporate catchphrase.

 

[Rednexus]

Seems like I will have an opportunity to negotiate on my price soon some more. The 1958 we had our name on got switched to a LC trim level by Toyota and their allotment elves. I want a 1958, so if we are waiting longer, I can look elsewhere other than my current dealer. I find it disappointing that Toyota would change the spec on a car with a deposit on it. But it seems “disappointment for all” is Toyota’s new corporate catchphrase.

Despite the fugly styling, this article seems to make the base, non-hybrid TRD Off-Road 4Runner look rather appealing and a lot cheaper than a LC250.

I Drove The New Toyota 4Runner. Here's How It Compares To The Land Cruiser - The Autopian

When the Toyota 4Runner debuted in April, many Toyota fans were confused. The brand had recently revealed a new Land Cruiser, which, unlike its predecessor (which was built on its own special platform) now shared the “TNGA-F” bones with its stablemates the Tacoma, Sequoia, and Tundra. So when...

www.theautopian.com

I vastly prefer the looks of the LC250 but it's hard to justify the price when so much of the drivetrain is shared between the two vehicles.