I'm heading to pick up a LC tonight with the premium package that I'm getting very close to invoice - total out the door cost including taxes and fees is below sticker. I did have to travel and will have a 1,000 mile drive home, but it's a break-in roadtrip over the next two days. Got very close to the options I wanted especially the blue with java leather. No dealer add-ons or ridiculous fees. Got connected via the no markup Toyota group on Facebook.
Price Negotiation (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NicB
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So, here is the scoop. Sharing for fun, but also to provide a potential why.
Why does Toyota charge more in the US and limit the import to generally higher spec trims?
Because they can. Within the confines of competition, legal framework and capitalism as a public company they should capture that value ($$$) for their employees/suppliers/shareholders and yes, even dealers and fellow US-based employees.
Why do we have dealers? Because that is the distribution agreement contracted and the model in force when Toyota came to the US.
As others have noted, no one has to buy a new one. Vote with your wallet and buy used or buy the competition or wait for an economic/market condition change. Pursue a grey market import, move to a different country (Japan prices are there, in Japan. So is cheap housing away from Tokyo) or bring the $$$ and get to enjoying the truck.
I ran the trades over and over again in my mind and on paper, 200 series, 80 series, GX470, GX460, 3G 4R, 4G 4R, 4G 4R with V8, Bronco, Bronco Raptor, F150 Raptor, Ranger Raptor, 4G Trailhunter Tacoma, wait for 5G Trailhunter 4R and even pondered the Ineos, R1S, Frontier Pro-4X and F150 Lightning. I wanted modern tech/safety/comfort and performance and an SUV this time so, for me, the GX nailed it….available now, but at a price. My dealer (Longo) sold me mine at no markup. I had to wait for my place in line to come up. Would I have liked a discount? Of course, but I was ready to get back into a truck and wasn’t going to wait. I also was not going to pay over the Toyota sticker out of principle.
In 5 years, when the R1S is on its 3rd generation (or the R2S is out) and the charging infrastructure is built out I’ll bet it will be a contender for my funds. I’m planning (and hoping) to run the GX for 10 years+. Having said that, my son, who now owns the 2G Tacoma that he and I had modified, is already lobbying for my GX to become his replacement when the Tacoma is done.
Capitalism, we love it, until we don’t.
Why does Toyota charge more in the US and limit the import to generally higher spec trims?
Because they can. Within the confines of competition, legal framework and capitalism as a public company they should capture that value ($$$) for their employees/suppliers/shareholders and yes, even dealers and fellow US-based employees.
Why do we have dealers? Because that is the distribution agreement contracted and the model in force when Toyota came to the US.
As others have noted, no one has to buy a new one. Vote with your wallet and buy used or buy the competition or wait for an economic/market condition change. Pursue a grey market import, move to a different country (Japan prices are there, in Japan. So is cheap housing away from Tokyo) or bring the $$$ and get to enjoying the truck.
I ran the trades over and over again in my mind and on paper, 200 series, 80 series, GX470, GX460, 3G 4R, 4G 4R, 4G 4R with V8, Bronco, Bronco Raptor, F150 Raptor, Ranger Raptor, 4G Trailhunter Tacoma, wait for 5G Trailhunter 4R and even pondered the Ineos, R1S, Frontier Pro-4X and F150 Lightning. I wanted modern tech/safety/comfort and performance and an SUV this time so, for me, the GX nailed it….available now, but at a price. My dealer (Longo) sold me mine at no markup. I had to wait for my place in line to come up. Would I have liked a discount? Of course, but I was ready to get back into a truck and wasn’t going to wait. I also was not going to pay over the Toyota sticker out of principle.
In 5 years, when the R1S is on its 3rd generation (or the R2S is out) and the charging infrastructure is built out I’ll bet it will be a contender for my funds. I’m planning (and hoping) to run the GX for 10 years+. Having said that, my son, who now owns the 2G Tacoma that he and I had modified, is already lobbying for my GX to become his replacement when the Tacoma is done.
Capitalism, we love it, until we don’t.
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The problem is that it's not free enterprise capitalism when the government creates monopoly privileges for entrenched dealers. It stifles innovation and harms customers and producers to the benefit of the dealer. Gaining wealth through rent seeking behavior is generally a net harm to society. Most people intuitively recognize this. Supporting a system designed to make buyers worse off for the benefit of the privilege holder is part of why buyers don't like the process.
But the dealers and capitalists (those with the money) set it up the system this way, not the government. It’s the system we have that those who make money in it are paying lobbyists to sustain it.
As an individual embrace it, avoid it (buy used vehicles privately), vote to change it out (good luck) or move your purchase and person to a place or brand with a different system.
Wishing it was different is a fallacy and non productive.
I wish I could buy direct and Toyota would build-to-my specification at a lower price. Doesn’t exist in our nation, won’t exist either.
I’ll move along now.
I’d just like to finally see used examples selling for less than brand new. I know this has corrected on many other makes and models but it most certainly has not on Toyo/Lex 4x4’s.
I don’t know if anyone happen to see the US government discussion with the CEO of Novo Nordisk on why US patients are paying 15X more for Wegovy and Ozempic? Entertaining as hell…and NO different than the car dealers.
Of course I have my opinions but I’d rather hang out with some high end escorts…they have more integrity than most car dealers
Of course I have my opinions but I’d rather hang out with some high end escorts…they have more integrity than most car dealers
Possibly you don't know this. In most or all states there are laws prohibiting direct sales. This is not a result of capitalism (unless you mean between the politicians taking money and gifts in exchange for voting for laws gifting monopoly to the dealers). But for those laws, we would likely have all direct sales.
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Capitalist companies love to find ways to reduce competition and subvert the "free" markets. It's the same way in my state with alcohol sales. All retailers that sell to the public must purchase the alcohol through a distributor, rather than a producer. It's a whole class of business that only exists due to a state law mandating its presence. As with auto dealers, it's hard to justify any kind of consumer benefit of a government-mandated middleman.
And the NADA (follow the money) loves the model and will protect it with lobbyists and influence campaigns.
So, the individual choice and power of our money we have is buy or don't. Wishing it was different is a nice, but unfortunately won’t change a thing.
So, the individual choice and power of our money we have is buy or don't. Wishing it was different is a nice, but unfortunately won’t change a thing.
Entrenched interests are certainly hard to unseat. Tesla was primed to blow up the system and then pivoted to the cyber truck and politics and lost the momentum. Not sure I see much else on the horizon that has a similar chance at making changes.
I bought a heritage blue with java seats LC edition with the premium package and 20 inch tires and my total before TTL was 65k which is about 6k off the MSRP. It was hard to find that deal and I ended up flying across the country for it. Here is what I did:
Watched groups like the facebook group "no markup toyota" to see what areas had discounts. Turns out parts of the northeast like PA and MD do have a lot that are not selling fast. Towards the end of the month I would go look for dealer in that area with the models that matched what I wanted and email them asking about price. Don't give them your phone number and insist you want to speak over email first otherwise you will be bombarded by calls FYI. Once you find someone that is willing to meet the price you want insist on signing papers online or seeing the bill of sale etc with TTL and out the door price before you get any plane tickets. Then go grab a cheap flight, fly out there, sign papers and say no to all the back of the office warranty crap and drive it home. I have done this twice now once with a sequioa in 2023 and now with my LC250 and I will recommend it to anyone as a method to save money.
Watched groups like the facebook group "no markup toyota" to see what areas had discounts. Turns out parts of the northeast like PA and MD do have a lot that are not selling fast. Towards the end of the month I would go look for dealer in that area with the models that matched what I wanted and email them asking about price. Don't give them your phone number and insist you want to speak over email first otherwise you will be bombarded by calls FYI. Once you find someone that is willing to meet the price you want insist on signing papers online or seeing the bill of sale etc with TTL and out the door price before you get any plane tickets. Then go grab a cheap flight, fly out there, sign papers and say no to all the back of the office warranty crap and drive it home. I have done this twice now once with a sequioa in 2023 and now with my LC250 and I will recommend it to anyone as a method to save money.
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That system definitely can work and for a $6K savings is worth it. But lets keep in mind that the flight and fuel to drive it home has a cost as does the time away from work, family or posting on MUD. I would not fly personally for much less. Nor did I even bother to search, complete personal prefrence.
My dad always said…”time to spare, go by air”. Nothing much about air travel holds truer these days
in the car biz a customer is either purchasing the deal or purchasing the car.
Good stuff when you get to do both!
Good stuff when you get to do both!
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Did exactly this same thing for a similar price. Was told by my local dealer the PA and MD dealers are selling at invoice.
This is what I do for all vehicle purchases, cars and motorcycles. They are commodities, and commodities trade on price. Central Texas, where I live, is insane on pricing, so I don't buy here. They get the warranty work and oil changes, but not the thousands of dollars on the purchase. Not from me, at least, there are plenty of suckers that pay it.
I also live in Central Texas so I can see we have had the same experience. The same trim and color land cruiser selling here for 5k over MSRP I bought out of state for 6k under MSRP.
Yeah Not sure why but that area they just seem to not sell well. Their loss was my gain though
oh yeah totally gotta factor it in. I travel a lot for work so I have miles for days and status on airlines so I really only paid for a couple tanks of gas and some meals. Did the drive in two days and just hauled ass.
I (gladly) traded in an '07 FKC on a new '11 Tacoma, at Performance Toyota in KC, Kansas. One of the dealerships I laughed at in Central Texas told me, after finding out that I was driving up there for the trade, that the "numbers would probably change" when I got there. I told him that would be on me, and I would walk out on the spot.
A couple of weeks after the deal, the same guy emailed to see if I was still in the market. My reply was simply a picture of the paper tag, with the Performanance Toyota plate frame.
