pre 2016 vs post 2016 (1 Viewer)

[EPUro2019]

I've been lurking for a long time. I've owned a 60 and 62, then FJ cruiser. Sold out and went bmw 535 diesel for a while but itching to get back into a LC.

At this point I am interested in probably a 2013-15 LC but had the chance to drive a 2017 at the dealer yesterday. Other than transmission and head unit for those that have driven both are there any other big differences in how they drive/feel?

I was very impressed with the 2017 but out of my price range. Hoping to find a low mile 2013-14 in the next few months.

Any comparisons or info would be very helpful. Unfortunately not many LCs in my area makes a direct comparison difficult.

Thanks!

 

[Sandroad]

A few posts down in this thread from the FAQs are 2 posts with the product fact sheets for all years. I've driven only a '17, but I know from looking that the console and switch locations are new, in addition to the screen.

Model Year Differences, LC200 + LX570

 

[jomelo]

Just sold a 2014 and purchased a 2017. I've only driven the 2017 a few weeks now but noticed a few differences. The satellite radio actually works in the 2017. Poor reception in the 2014. The suspension feels firmer in the 2017. Also, for whatever reason I am getting worse MPG in the 2017. Not sure what to attribute this to other than maybe my particular driving speed and tire size just affects the transmission in a particular way. The brakes also seem a lot firmer in the 2017. They were a little spongy on the 2014. These are all just my feelings and some of that may be subjective. Just my 2 cents.

I will say I absolutely hate the DVD screens in the 2017.

 

[EPUro2019]

thanks for the input.

We also drove a 4runner trd pro. was nice but utilitarian and felt under powered. Especially compared to the land cruiser and my current car. Wife drove and liked the GX460. I'm not a fan of the front fascia.

still leaning towards the LC. They just seem to have it all.

 

[LALC]

Front and rear lights were upgraded to LED, brakes were replaced with Tundra brakes, head unit upgrade, speaker upgrade, front seats now fan in addition to heat (unless I'm mistaken and that was available before), 8 speed transmission... that's all I can think of right now.

Is the dash (speedometer area) screen new for 2016?

Are the safety cruise, Lane assist, etc. new for 2016?

 

[RS6tofj80]

13-14 is the sweet spot for features and price right now..... I looked at some 16's in the high 60's range that were leftovers - but for the extra I've basically done all my mods to my 13' I picked up.....what color combo are you looking for ?

Agree on the 4runners - they are nice rigs but there is no way to get more power ..... that killed it for me, I was actually looking to repalce my GF's 07' FJ with one but she agreed as well......

Are you looking to mod ? if not heavily also look at the LX's ...... lots more of them, by 10 to 1..... and they're typically 4-6k cheaper.

E

 

[TonyP]

Yesterday I checked out the '17 at the dealer while my '13 was getting the TPMS reprogrammed. I wasn't entirely impressed with the '17. I liked the '17s button placement but overall I kind of prefer my '13 for some reason. Personal preference I guess.

 

[mcgaskins]

Front and rear lights were upgraded to LED, brakes were replaced with Tundra brakes, head unit upgrade, speaker upgrade, front seats now fan in addition to heat (unless I'm mistaken and that was available before), 8 speed transmission... that's all I can think of right now.

Is the dash (speedometer area) screen new for 2016?

Are the safety cruise, Lane assist, etc. new for 2016?

Cooled seats started with 13, and the full safety suite was new for 16. I personally prefer the button layout and upgraded nav screen in the 16+, but I do not care for the new 8 speed transmission. According to their fuel economy specs, it is exactly the same as the 6 speed, but you get a higher gear ratio (lower numerically), added complexity, and from several reports here, a much higher likelihood of failure. They sell less than 3k new Land Cruisers here in the US, and we've seen probably ~5 transmission failures already on this board alone. That's unacceptable for an $85k vehicle that purports to be one of the most durable and reliable in the world. I agree that 13-15 is the sweet spot because you get updated electronics, cooled seats, radar cruise, HID headlights, some more safety equipment, and visual tweaks to help make it look more modern. My decision basically came down to a new or gently used 16+ demo, or a 13-15 totally built up the way I wanted it and I'm very happy I went with a 14.

 

[EPUro2019]

my main question is basically from a driving standpoint is there a big difference? It is the same engine but different transmission and some suspension differences. for those that have driven both is there a big difference?

Thanks again for the info

 

[EPUro2019]

13-14 is the sweet spot for features and price right now..... I looked at some 16's in the high 60's range that were leftovers - but for the extra I've basically done all my mods to my 13' I picked up.....what color combo are you looking for ?

Agree on the 4runners - they are nice rigs but there is no way to get more power ..... that killed it for me, I was actually looking to repalce my GF's 07' FJ with one but she agreed as well......

Are you looking to mod ? if not heavily also look at the LX's ...... lots more of them, by 10 to 1..... and they're typically 4-6k cheaper.

E

My preferred color choice is white with black interior. I'd consider silver or red but prefer white. I've seen a few online, unfortunately in El Paso very few are here.

I'd like to do some light mods at some point. nothing too big. I'll look at the LX as well. I figured they would be more expensive thus I wasn't really looking at them.

 

[Ali M]

Just saying...I bought my 16 LC in Aug and now I have 6K miles of mixed city/highway driving. What I am not happy about the most with this truck is the clunky 8-speed, grippy brakes, nose-diving when breaking to mention a few. It took me 3 months to get used to the braking to reduce the nose-diving stops (I am used to BMW braking). I wonder if Terrain Tamer rotors and pads will fix that for me. I am also impressed with the new 2017 Ford Raptor as an off-roading truck that could potentially replace my LC in the future. No pun intended.

 

[wardharris]

Just saying...I bought my 16 LC in Aug and now I have 6K miles of mixed city/highway driving. What I am not happy about the most with this truck is the clunky 8-speed, grippy brakes, nose-diving when breaking to mention a few. It took me 3 months to get used to the braking to reduce the nose-diving stops (I am used to BMW braking). I wonder if Terrain Tamer rotors and pads will fix that for me. I am also impressed with the new 2017 Ford Raptor as an off-roading truck that could potentially replace my LC in the future. No pun intended.

Ali -
I am at a loss to understand how a new LC would have grippy/grabby brakes or nose diving. Also not sure how it could be the rotors - seems more likely glazed pads. What did the service techs have to say about brakes/dive/tranny? Have you tried other new 200s for comparison?

Sounds like a combination of brakes and front suspension.....or new owner expectations vs. BMW as you say.....I honestly don't know.

OK, now for the sales pitch......How about a set of Terrain Tamer pads on spec to see if they make a difference. If they improve your experience, great, pay for them. If not, its not the pads, keep them.

I only ask two things: 1) Let me drive the truck before and after; and 2) If you do decide to sell it, I get first dibs.

Cheers,
Ward

 

[TonyP]

Nose diving under heavy braking is common throughout the 200s. It's primarily product of the cushy stock suspension.

 

[Markuson]

Just saying...I bought my 16 LC in Aug and now I have 6K miles of mixed city/highway driving. What I am not happy about the most with this truck is the clunky 8-speed, grippy brakes, nose-diving when breaking to mention a few. It took me 3 months to get used to the braking to reduce the nose-diving stops (I am used to BMW braking). I wonder if Terrain Tamer rotors and pads will fix that for me. I am also impressed with the new 2017 Ford Raptor as an off-roading truck that could potentially replace my LC in the future. No pun intended.

I don't think rotors have any effect on nose-diving. Upgrade your suspension to Old Man Emu, or any number of other setups, and you should see significant improvement. On the other hand...you are driving a 6000 lb. truck. It will never brake like a BMW.

 

[Sandroad]

IMHO, the nose diving is the result of the grabby brakes. I've noted elsewhere that vey non-linear brakes are a problem with my '17. The brakes act like they are wet all the time and grab suddenly just before a full stop. It's very different than my 100, which has linear brakes and only nose-dives if you have to stop quick. It's bad enough that I'm going to try new pads before I start towing this spring and I've had EBC pads suggested.

 

[200 Custodian]

The idea that the brakes themselves cause diving of the front end is an example of correlation, not causation. The cause is suspension geometry as affected by weight transfer. Braking initiates the weight transfer, which is when suspension loading begins. There are various ways to eliminate brake dive, but it comes at a penalty elsewhere, such as overall ride quality, turn-in, and motion ratio. There is a whole field of automotive engineering dedicated to this, and the issue is not as simple as 'swap the brakes'. The easy and cheap way to address the issue is to install front springs with enough rate that they will not compress under weight transfer. The only downside is that the truck will no longer absorb road imperfections, but at least it won't dive under braking.

Each complaint should be tempered by the fact that we're talking about a massive vehicle. It is a lumbering behemoth that has evolved to have decent road manners, however will never be praised for its handling when compared to other SUVs. In fact, it shouldn't even have the 'S' in there. It's a UT, with no sporting pretensions. It's not a Cayenne.

 

[wardharris]

The idea that the brakes themselves cause diving of the front end is an example of correlation, not causation. The cause is suspension geometry as affected by weight transfer. Braking initiates the weight transfer, which is when suspension loading begins. There are various ways to eliminate brake dive, but it comes at a penalty elsewhere, such as overall ride quality, turn-in, and motion ratio. There is a whole field of automotive engineering dedicated to this, and the issue is not as simple as 'swap the brakes'. The easy and cheap way to address the issue is to install front springs with enough rate that they will not compress under weight transfer. The only downside is that the truck will no longer absorb road imperfections, but at least it won't dive under braking.

Each complaint should be tempered by the fact that we're talking about a massive vehicle. It is a lumbering behemoth that has evolved to have decent road manners, however will never be praised for its handling when compared to other SUVs. In fact, it shouldn't even have the 'S' in there. It's a UT, with no sporting pretensions. It's not a Cayenne.

My "swap the pads" suggestion was related to "grabby brakes" rather than nosedive behavior. As with most things in life, the vehicles in question and their behaviors are rooted in compromise and optimization.

As for overall handling and user experience, it seems like plenty of 200 Series owners on this forum have come to peace with their "massive....lumbering behemoths." Perhaps the inherent design conflicts/compromises together with new owner expectations converge to create an owner/rig relationship irresolvable without integrated modifications - suspension components, brake components, etc.

 

[M1911]

As others have said, brake dive is about suspension geometry and stiffness of the springs. Stiffer springs will reduce brake dive, at the cost of ride comfort.

As for overall handling and user experience, it seems like plenty of 200 Series owners on this forum have come to peace with their "massive....lumbering behemoths."

Exactly. The 200 is a ~6000 lb, offroad capable, body-on-frame, solid-rear-axle truck. It has a relatively soft suspension with decent travel. So it has a fair bit of fore and aft pitch. The KDSS helps reduce roll in corners, but it isn't a BMW X-5 and never will be.

If you don't need the offroad capability of the 200, then you probably won't want to put up with its road manners. If you do need the offroad capability of the 200, then the road manners are part of the bargain. Don't get me wrong, the 200 is no Wrangler in terms of road manners, but it also isn't a Porsche Cayenne.

 

[wardharris]

IMHO, the nose diving is the result of the grabby brakes. I've noted elsewhere that vey non-linear brakes are a problem with my '17. The brakes act like they are wet all the time and grab suddenly just before a full stop. It's very different than my 100, which has linear brakes and only nose-dives if you have to stop quick. It's bad enough that I'm going to try new pads before I start towing this spring and I've had EBC pads suggested.

Thank you Mudders. Another great topic and thread - I appreciate all the input. Three key elements - brakes, suspension and transmission. My interest and perspective:

1. As the future owner of a new 200 (waiting on a real estate sale for funding), I am vexed by this thread and topics - grabby brakes, nosedive and transmission.
2. As a brake and suspension vendor, I am trying to understand owner needs and expectations.

To date all of my Land Cruisers have been archaic designs updated to the limits of their capabilities - leaf sprung solid axles and upgraded brakes. Given the limits of the leaf sprung trucks, I have been happy with handling and stopping thanks to new springs, shocks, rotors, pads, calipers, booster, etc.

The 200 is another animal - especially the 2016+ models.

We know how to deal with braking and handling (HP rotor/pad kit and Pro suspension kit already on the "paid / reserved") shelf.

The third issue looms largest - the new transmission - performance, durability and economy. I have heard comments that "it gets better when the box learns your style" along with "its weird" to "high repair/replacement rates" I cannot fix the transmission..... Hopefully, if there is a problem, it is an example application of the old adage about not buying the first model year following a big change. New 8 speed transmission (with programming) and gearing certainly qualifies.

As a geek, I would love to have some facts/data to back up the user opinions and service/warranty claims.

 

[EPUro2019]

The wealth of knowledge here on all things LC is amazing.

Thanks for the discussion. Certainly things to think about.

I think for my budget a 13-14 LC is what I will ultimately purchase, now I just need to find the right one.