Powerfilm Solar 30W

[Luke77]

I am planning to charge my auxiliary battery with a solar charger for a long trip. This extra battery will be used for LED-lights in the evening and for charging "normal" batteries for torch, mobile etc.

In case of emergency I want to be able to use the auxiliary battery as a temporary starting battery.

Does anybody has experience with the Powerfilm Solar 30W to charge an auxiliary battery (Optima Yellow Top)? Do you like it? Efficient?

 

[VanGo]

Luke,

contact Mario at Adventure Trailers, he is a wealth of information on solar solutions and well rounded guy. Here is a link to ATs as they are the only dealer that I know of related to the offroad community:
Adventure Trailers - 12 Volt & Solar 12 volt calculation - ACCESSORIES

HTH,

Van

 

[Luke77]

Thanks VanGo,

I indeed found their website a few weeks ago. But I am very interested in a personal experience of this solar setup.

I am looking at the Powerfilm 30W or the Brunton 26W. I want to know which one is more reliable, because they seem to use a different solar cell technique. The Brunton is much smaller, but the foldable solar panels don't seem their core-business; Powerfilm is only doing solar panels. So I am curious about their respective qualities.

Small problem: I need to import it from the US, because I am living in Europe. The same kind of solar panels are at least 1,5x the price over here...

Luke

 

[Combat Chuck]

No product experience, but I've used a number of Brunton brand products on my journies. I like their build quality, and warranties.

 

[VanGo]

Luke,

Understand you dilema, I can offer this, the US military uses PowerFilm in many, many applications large and small. Maybe go that route in your research. You may also try here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=48 and here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48878&highlight=power+film Personally, from the research that I have completed Power Film excels at their technology from the above stated reason of military T&D that would be my choice...
HTH,

Van

 

[Luke77]

That is exactly why I was not so fond of the Brunton-idea, because they basically make all kinds of camping-items and their solar panel looks like a kind of side-business.

If the US military uses the Powerfilm, it can't be a bad choice, I guess...

You think a 30W is enough to keep the auxiliary battery topped up and to run just some LED-lights in the evening, plus sometimes charging "normal" AA- and D-batteries? I am not using a fridge...

 

[VanGo]

Luke,


Take a moment and provide some more details to help me understand your power needs? Use Ohms Law to list some of your basic consumption.

Example:
Volts x Amps = Watts
Watts ÷ Amps = Volts
Watts ÷ Volts = Amps

For example if you want to know how many Amps an ARB 13Watt, 12V fluorescent light is going to consume per hour. Your answer is 13 Watts ÷ 12 Volts = 1.08 Amps per hour of usage.

Now if your Optima yellow top is a D34 group battery consider the following:

Battery Storage Capacity Ratings:
Two standard ratings are used to measure a battery's storage capacity.

Amp Hours:
The Amp Hour rating tells you how much amperage is available when discharged evenly over a 20 hour period. The amp hour rating is cumulative, so in order to know how many constant amps the battery will output for 20 hours, you have to divide the amp hour rating by 20. Example: If a battery has an amp hour rating of 55, dividing by 20 = 2.75. Such a battery can carry a 2.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts. (10.5 volts is the fully discharged level, at which point the battery needs to be recharged.) A battery with an amp hour rating of 55 will carry a 2.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts.

Reserve Minutes:
Reserve minutes is the number of minutes a battery will carry a 25 amp load before dropping to 10.5 volts. (10.5 volts is the fully discharged level, approximately .80 of a battery groups total sustainable amp hour output, at which point the battery needs to be recharged.)


With this in mind, use the ARB light example
and the 55 Amp Battery (Optima yellow top D34) and the ARB 13 Watt, 12V Fluorescent light to determine:

(55 Amps X .80) ÷ (13 watts ÷ 12 Volts) = 40.7 Hours of burn time.

Keep in mind that the solar panel is simply "trickle" charging the aux battery and the use of a solar controller is necessary to prevent damage of over charging to the battery. So would a 30W solar panel be enough to power your needs say over a 2-3 trip? Possibly, but you will need to provide more details to confirm.

HTH,

Van

Links to consider:

Optima Yellow Top Battery Optima Yellow Top Batteries Optimas.asp

Amp Hours: Battery Amp Hour Rating

Why Do I Need a Solar Charge Controller Between My Panel and Batteries?

 

[Black Op]

Van,

Nicely explained!

 

[Luke77]

I think in the worst case I will use 15W for the LED-lights + 10W for charging "normal" batteries.

So calculated: 15W/12V=1,25A/h and 10W/12V=0,83 A/h

So this will make 2,08 A/h.

I will probably go for a 75Ah battery, because I also want to use it as a "back-up start battery" in case of emergency.

Making it at least 75x80%= 60/2.08 = 28,8h with everything ON.

I think I will use it max 5hrs per night, so one full car battery will last me approx. 5 days without charging at all.

The Powerfilm solar panel is 30W and 15,4V making it 30W/15,4V=1,93A in perfect conditions: make it, due to clouds, 50% efficiency during charging, I can harvest 1A charging.

In worst, worst case I will use 2,08A/h, so I will need to recharge my battery for every hour used with 2,08hrs of solar charging. If I only use the LED-lights (which I will do mostly) it will be 1,25A/h when switched ON, so needing to recharge it with 1,25hrs of solar charging (in 50% efficient conditions).

Conclusion: If I solar charge like above, it will keep the auxiliary battery topped up day-by-day. And if there is no sun or I can't charge, it will last me minimum 5 nights. Seems like a good calculation and it seems that the combination of a 30W with my needs will work (I will be able to charge a least a 3 hours a day and on some days more if we are not driving, plus on some days we will hit more than 50% efficiency).

Does this make sense? Seems that a 30W panel is more than enough?

Luke

 

[VanGo]

Luke,

Diversify load management as you described and 30W should be suitable. Remember your solar charger and additional needed components. Almost forgot to ask are you going with a foldable or rollable option? PFs site has a lot of useful tools for further investigated your needs as well.

Solar Products for OEMs, Military & Consumers | PowerFilmSolar.com

HTH,

Van

 

[spressomon]

I've had the 60W Powerfilm for going on 2-years and its super. I'd buy it again no question!

It keeps my dual Group 31 Lifeline batteries in my KK charged when its in base camp mode...7-days and it kept both topped off just fine for fridge/freeze, Webasto heater, LED lights and a little music box.

 

[VanGo]

Luke,

If it's in the budget to go to a 60W Dan is bringing the real world answer you are after, his set up is more of a demand, but personally I would error on this side as "we" always seem to progress upwards to new accessories.

Dan,

Thanks for adding here some real world experience, overall I think that is what the OP was after. BTW, the quote from B is a classic, I laugh everytime i read it!

Van

 

[Corey]

Running the 60 watt Powerfilm I bought from Adventure Trailers a few years back.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/camping-ou...-overlanding-trips-installed-6-27-2009-a.html

Bought it to keep the main battery topped off while running the ARB fridge, and it has worked out very well.

 

[Luke77]

If it's in the budget to go to a 60W Dan is bringing the real world answer you are after, his set up is more of a demand, but personally I would error on this side as "we" always seem to progress upwards to new accessories.

I am a quite basic traveller and I don't think I will ever buy a fridge or something consuming a lot of power. Budget is an important factor with buying equipment. I want it good, but I'm not looking for fancy if it is not really necessary. And I thought: if I ever will buy a large energy consumer I can always connect 2x 30W panels in series, making it a 60W....

Almost forgot to ask are you going with a foldable or rollable option?

I have been looking at a foldable, because it seems more convenient with storing in the car (just the size of a book instead of a roll), plus I think it will be less fragile. A roll can be accidentally flattened, while the foldable is flat already...

Luke

 

[VanGo]

Luke,

Good work! Looks like you have made a sound decision on a 30W PowerFilm foldable. Look forward to your future post of the panel in action. Glad it worked out....

Van

 

[Luke77]

Thank you too for the help!

I will post again when everything is in action.

Luke

 

[Fast Eddy]

I understand the nerd factor, and I'm in favor of solar. If we're talking about camping in one spot for two weeks with a 'fridge, I'm sold on the solar option, but have you calculated how long you have to run your alternator to accomplish the same amount of charge?

My quick calculation is about 12 minutes for the same charge as a 30w panel for 8 hours, assuming you actually get 30w for the whole time and you probably average more like 15w. That makes the solar a cool conversation piece and useful if you plan on staying put for a couple weeks, but not necessary if you're actually going to run your engine at all.

Running the rig for a few minutes a day is not really going to keep it topped off.

This is debatable. The 60w setup was $1000. A 100A alternator is about $100 and requires no additional wiring, storage space nor electronics.

 

[Corey]

I understand the nerd factor, and I'm in favor of solar. If we're talking about camping in one spot for two weeks with a 'fridge, I'm sold on the solar option, but have you calculated how long you have to run your alternator to accomplish the same amount of charge?

My quick calculation is about 12 minutes for the same charge as a 30w panel for 8 hours, assuming you actually get 30w for the whole time and you probably average more like 15w. That makes the solar a cool conversation piece and useful if you plan on staying put for a couple weeks, but not necessary if you're actually going to run your engine at all.



This is debatable. The 60w setup was $1000. A 100A alternator is about $100 and requires no additional wiring, storage space nor electronics.

When I camp, my rig is base camp for a week or more at a time.
I am not packing up everyday and moving onto another destination where the alternator will keep the battery charged up, so solar makes perfect sense for me.

 

[e9999]

I can't very well see myself camping in one spot for a week in a cruiser and not feeling the compulsion or need to drive it or fire it up at least 15 mins every day or 2 (assuming I'm not super low on gas)

 

[Luke77]

I agree with the nerd effect; it is nice to have a solar.

But my arguments are:

- I will need it in Africa
- Therefore I like to have two separate electronic systems: lights/ignition & auxiliary; I the worst case I don't have light in the evening, but I won't drain the start batteries
- The European Land Cruiser HJ60 is 24V (2x12V) and I don't feel like converting 24V/12V/220V etc. with the risk of solenoids/diodes problems in the middle of nowhere
- If I have a problem with any of my batteries, I can always recharge them even in the middle of the Sahara without help of anybody. Yes, slow, but it will always work...
- So except nerd factor, it is also a safety option
- Costs: A split charge system is minimal 110 euro in Europe and the optional 30W solar system about 350 euro incl. regulator shipped from the US. So I buy nerd and safe for about 250 euro...

Logical or does anybody has other ideas?

Luke