Power Steering R&D

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Great work Patrick.

What sort of temp increase did you see betwwen stock flow and 4gpm?

Also, would one need to upgrade the pitman arm and sector shaft to the 105 series to handle the extra pressure?


Buck

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How soon do you think you'll be looking into the gearbox? Mine is leaking and going to need to do something soon.
 
Also, would one need to upgrade the pitman arm and sector shaft to the 105 series to handle the extra pressure?

People can twist the sector shaft with the stock setup, so I'd say yes. Not so much for the extra pressure, as the fact that you'll be able to force the tires to turn when they wouldn't before. That could cause the shaft to twist quite easily.
 
at this point with a tweaked pump .. hydro assist it's the way to go IMOP .. that will keep you with your stock pitman sharing forces with the hydro piston ..
 
Highly interested, especially if you offer a paper clip replacement option as part of the package. My stock box turns my 37's pretty nicely, but I'd like to have some headroom as this is my max tire size.
 
Great work Patrick.

What sort of temp increase did you see betwwen stock flow and 4gpm?

Buck....have not made it to that point yet. Postees have been talking about this very thing. I will be testing all this when I get a finished pump mounted up to the truck. It will run a timed test with the steering dead headed in one direction. Measure temps with different cooler set up and take notes. The higher pressure will bring higher temps....how much is uncertian as of yet.


Also, would one need to upgrade the pitman arm and sector shaft to the 105 series to handle the extra pressure?

That too is something that may also need to be addressed. This is why we did not want to take the pressure too high. 200-300 over stock settings.....I don't foresee this being a problem unless you are running some rather large 40's. I think that there is a smaller percentage that runs that size tire with out ram assist. Again I really wanted to address the flow for trail speeds with locked front ends, hydo winches and ram assist with a stock pump. Bumping the pressure was just an added feature. I was planning on ram assist with my 80 but really did not want to deal with a non stock setup and pump. Now I can move forward with it using an 80 series pump. If the 105 parts are added security then that can be taken care of with the right part numbers of course. Due to the weight of a steering gear, have a local shop switch them out. Shipping it to me would be costly. Local folks hear in Houston would be able to contact me for that if need be.

Buck

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How soon do you think you'll be looking into the gearbox? Mine is leaking and going to need to do something soon.

As for your steering gear. I have one that I can get rebuilt for you then we can swap it out with the core. Less down time for you. I will call you and let you know. At present, I am using the one I have for testing purposes. Tests which I would like to get done possibly this weekend provided I donl't go dove hunting. :)
 
Somehow I screwed up that previous post. Please read in the "quoted" box for responses to Buckru's questions.
 
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Highly interested, especially if you offer a paper clip replacement option as part of the package. My stock box turns my 37's pretty nicely, but I'd like to have some headroom as this is my max tire size.

I could put together a package including a paper clip replacement for sure. I thave an idea for a clean mounted setup. I am just waiting for the coolers to show up and will see what works best.
 
Well the final results are in for the pump. Things have changed :frown: and the numbers we have dropped. We cannot reach the 5gpm like we had hoped prior to tearing into the pump. We achieved the 4gpm yesterday but today were not comfortable with the cam and housing after getting this flow. It can be obtained with a price but that is something that I will not pass on to a potential buyer and or mudder.
The final numbers are in and we now have an OEM pump flowing at a rate of 3.5 -3.7gpm(varied due to factory machining). The pressure still remains at 1800psi. With this said, the OEM pump will flow %40 to %48 more than stock. This is still not bad for the size of the unit but it is what it is. Fortunately for us this puts the pump at or above what is required for hydro winch flow rates and still perfect for hydro assist. You will still feel and notice a difference. I am happy with these results and should have this mounted up tomorrow evening provided I have time.
We also looked into the steering gears and found that they will be more than adequate for what the pump is throwing at it. Also there was a question asked about the sector shaft. This will not break due to pump output. The pressure will bypass way before the shaft will break. The only thing that will break the shaft would be caused by an outside force such as hitting a obstruction very very hard with would probably break other steering components as well. I hope that this info clears the issue up.
We have covered the flow we achieved and now to the pressure. The flow will affect steering speed as described and the pressure will affect the "leverage". Basically you are using a bigger lever to move an object. The pressure can be bumped up should you desire more but the pump will not have warranty. The psi setting you want is what you will get. As for the cooling of the fluid. I finally got into contact with the manufacturer of the unit I was thinking of using. Well the delta was not enough, 5-10 degree drop. Not cool in my books and no pun intended. The route that will work best will be the a transmission cooler mounted where ever one feels comfortable. I am planning to still use the factory location(lower rad support area) and mount a cooler. Be it a fin/tube or stacked plate design.
So with all of this said, we are now accepting orders for pumps. Send a good core and you will recieve a new modded pump. The $225 will cover domestic return shipping via USPS. International shipping costs will be calculated at the time of purchase with customer. These have a 1 year warranty. If you do not have a core, contact me. I do not have a "non core" price for these units as of yet but will get one. Email me with contact info should you decide on making a purchase. At that point I will call or email you back.
Also...a bolt on kit will be available but I have not figured out pricing yet. The cooler needs to be decide upon first. Feedback on who would like to see a kit would be nice. That way I can have an idea of how many units I will need to put together.
Please let me know what you all think. Despite all the time and effort(not to mention $$) and wishy washy initial numbers, I would like to know what everyone thinks. Thanks for your time in advance.
 
Out of curiosity, I've read of folks using an electronic power steering pump in line with the gear driven pump to increase flow/pressure. For example, the Toyota MR2's have electronic hydraulic pumps that push 2k PSI and apparently have plenty of flow.

Considering you could pick up one of those pumps significantly cheaper than what you're doing, why wouldn't that be the route to take? I can see a lot of advantages to that setup. Not trying to undermine what you're doing, just get an idea for the different options out there...
 
Was any modification done to the gear box to reflect the increased gpm and pressure from the pump? How about the Yokohama HP line?

I don't doubt that the stock gear box can accept the increases. It's a hell of a big piece of metal.
 
Will you be putting together packages for diesels too?
 
I looked into this EHPS(electro hydraulic power steering)as well but wiring the unit properly so that the pumps turns on and off, to wheel movement will be a pain. The pump can not run continuously without burning up either and it pulls close to 80 amps when operating at fulll load. It will be difficult also to wire in the steering computer that modulates the motor output control. It would be a sweet setup but the cost and labor overcomes the coolness very quickly.
 
Was any modification done to the gear box to reflect the increased gpm and pressure from the pump? How about the Yokohama HP line?

I don't doubt that the stock gear box can accept the increases. It's a hell of a big piece of metal.
Beno,
No mods were performed to the steering gear as they are not needed. The housing IS a big piece of metal and there is more than enough beef to handle the increase of flow and pressure. We set the pressure for a number of reason. In a steering system too much pressure can crack steering gear housings, too much flow will flood them and lock them up. The reman center owner knows these steering gears very well, since the days of the 60 series trucks. He speaks very highly of them. Your High Pressure line will take the pressure as they USUALLY have a burst rate of 2200 psi or higher. Given it is only a 300 psi increase, I do not see that there will be a problem. Should one question the hose, a hose can be made for pretty much any pressure one would like. I will be running my factory original tomorrow and letting everyone know. When I set the entire package up, I will be changing my hose only because it has been on the truck since December of 94.

Will you be putting together packages for diesels too?

djsherif,
If the diesel pumps are the same as the 80 series then a package is not a problem. I have no clue what your pump looks like or what type it is. Anyone with this info would be great so that we may help out the diesel crowd.
 
as soon as the testing is done and satisfactory send me the shipping address and paypal account info.

Thanks for your work on this.

Ditto. And highly interested in the cooler. I don't have time to go figure all that out, an entire plug and play assembly is the ticket.
 
No worries. But I will say that trying to get a good sized cooler to mount in the stock location is kicking my rear. I am tryin to avoid a rad mounted unit. I have no more room with the aux fan in there. I may have to make a kit with 2 options.....with or without aux fan. I will get it figured out though one way or another.
 
I looked into this EHPS(electro hydraulic power steering)as well but wiring the unit properly so that the pumps turns on and off, to wheel movement will be a pain. The pump can not run continuously without burning up either and it pulls close to 80 amps when operating at fulll load. It will be difficult also to wire in the steering computer that modulates the motor output control. It would be a sweet setup but the cost and labor overcomes the coolness very quickly.

From everything I've read most of that isn't actually correct.

At least for the MKII and MKIII pumps, there is a VSS that you can tap into to control the pump depending on your speed, and only have it turned on at low speeds. Additionally some folks have wired it so that they can control how much juice it's getting, meaning you could manually override it.

You could quite easily wire it so that you could flip it on, for on road or at speed you'd never need it, just flip a switch right before you hit the rock garden or start winching and enjoy the boost in pressure and flow. Leave it off the rest of the time. :meh:

As far as the amps goes, it can't pull 80 amps all the time or even at full load. The amp rating is the highest when it first engages at idle, the amount of juice it'd pull would be further reduced because the gear driven pump will already be spinning it, meaning that it will have little to no load when it starts (which is different than if it's the only pump). Additionally, the MR2 alts are only 70-100 amps, so if it drew up to 80 ams often enough it'd overwhelm the charging system, which doesn't happen.

The amperage would be low the majority of the time, even when rock crawling. You might have short spikes of high amps, but it'd be a snap to properly set it up to handle it.

I've read of several accounts of folks setting it up to draw 60 amps max, there were no issues setting it up that way. Considering that the gear driven pump will reduce the load, the max amperage should be even lower than that.


Oh, and the pump can run continuously without issue. Tons of people have these pumps running full time in their rig without issue. These pumps are popular with folks running electric cars or engines where mounting a gear or belt driven pump isn't feasible. If the pump is running and there is little to no load, it takes almost no amps and the DC motor isn't even breaking a sweat. It's a bit of a power waste to have it on all the time, but the small parasitic load it adds won't even be noticeable, especially since we'd be using it in low range at low speeds for short distances.


Sorry for playing devils advocate here, but seems that adding the extra pump for $40 (MKI) to $200 (MKIII) would do what you're trying to do and then some.
 
Either or I choose not to to run the electro hydro steering. I know a fews Honda guys that run that system on the track and have burned up used electric pumps. For me, simple bolt on pump plumbed into a factory setting is much easier and less of a pain on the trials when problems arise. Also for those running a loaded eletrical sytem with radios, gps, lights and what not....loading the system any more is just not needed in my opinion. I see your side of the fence though, I just feel that it need not be too complicated and easier for most to install if they want the added feature. As they say, its all good.
 
Cooler pics that have been requested after finally having it mounted.

Specs are as follows:
Overall Height (in)3.500 in.Overall Width (in)18.000 in.Overall Thickness (in)2.750 in.Cooler ConstructionTube and finCooler MaterialAluminumInlet Size3/8 in. NPTInlet AttachmentFemale threadsOutlet Size3/8 in. NPTOutlet AttachmentFemale threads
Flow Tube Dia (in) .0625 in. (5/8)

Still working out a few bugs in the system. Keep your fingers crossed.
cooler.webp
cooler2.webp
cooler3.webp
 

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