Poll - LX570 owners using regular 87 octane or Premium

[pvchaitanya]

Did a 2000+ mile road trip recently and the best I saw was 19 MPG on highway when driving at 65mph.
If I did 80+ mph , the average dropped to 15.5 MPG
and I have experimented with 91 vs 93 Octane and 93 seems to provide better MPG.

 

[04UZJ100]

Yeah I just spent over $100k on an SUV. Let's just go against the advice of the engineers and see what happens long-term. People really do bitch about $500/year +/-? Higher octane burns cleaner and it is recommended for this vehicle. I also have a Tundra that I feed 91 or better. If you can't afford it, buy a Ford Explorer. Otherwise, you could take a chance and burn s*** fuel and see what happens. Best of luck on your $100k investment.

You sound like a treat. Have any technical basis or proof that the fuel mapping and trims on the LX are any different than the Cruiser?

 

[Hokie99]

I ran my Tundra 5.7 nearly 300k miles on Regular, and my wife has 90k on her 2016 570 on regular gas. I have not seen any issues for what it’s worth. Have a good weekend everyone.

 

[razzyrazz]

Been running 87 for a couple years. 80 cents price difference here in Virginia, I'm out in the country. I'd rather have the fresh 87 than the 93 that has probably been sitting for a while due to fewer fancy cars put here. Regardless I would probably still run 87. I don't drive it hard and I never tow over 3k lbs. I didn't notice any difference in driving performance or mpg before committing to 87. 110k miles fwiw.

 

[chriscosta416]

Resurrecting this thread, from what I have read and from the PDI instructions I found for the LX it states

"Fill the fuel tank to the "FULL" level with premium unleaded fuel that has a Research Octane No. 91 (Octane Rating 87) or higher. It is recommended that the interior protective covers be removed just before delivery of the vehicle to the customer."


Per ELI5 on Reddit -

https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/100339/L-PDSB-0228-D

 

[stonepa]

Resurrecting this thread, from what I have read and from the PDI instructions I found for the LX it states

"Fill the fuel tank to the "FULL" level with premium unleaded fuel that has a Research Octane No. 91 (Octane Rating 87) or higher. It is recommended that the interior protective covers be removed just before delivery of the vehicle to the customer."


Per ELI5 on Reddit -

https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/100339/L-PDSB-0228-D

Yep - that’s dealer prep for you.

For the record , I always ran regular unleaded in my LX570. Sure, I would have felt more special using premium as I was driving a premium Lexus…

 

[newbielx470]

Where I'm at the difference is 70 cents a gallon. That is a big factor that varies quite a bit across the country. YMMV.

US average (according to DOT) is 13,476 miles per year.

Yes, I've seen the biggest difference of about $1.3 for 87 octane regular gas vs. 91 premium, almost intentionally penalizing "nicer" car/truck owners .

If I were to buy a $20k early LX570, and drive 20k miles a year, the difference in regular vs. premium each year is 1/8 of the truck's cost. I would still not put regular in LX570. But this becomes a financial consideration to take when buying.

 

[matte36s50]

I went to a talk by the head scientist from one of the large oil companies. He was mainly talking in regards to Porsches and classic cars, but he mentioned the difference between regular and premium. Long story short, it is beneficial to get premium from certain brands and not at others.

One the east coast, most of the gas comes from the same pipeline and is then blended by the oil companies. Overall, the main difference is the additives that each company blends in. Specifically he mentioned that Shell, Valero, and BP all have significant advantages in their premium gas. Generic brands and Exxon/Mobil do not add enough to make a difference between the regular and premium.
The increase in additives in the good (shell, etc.) fuel over the life of the car should pay for itself in increased mileage. He said that is over the life of the engine, and you would probably not see any real change tank to tank.

As an aside, he said to always use synthetic oil in every car you have (even old classics). The lower temperature at the piston rings is worth any leakage that you may get around the gaskets.

And they test every gasoline additives that come out and they have never come across anything that is beneficial. Basically they mess with the balance of detergents already in your gasoline/oil. He said it is like ordering spaghetti and meatballs at a restaurant and then pouring ketchup on the whole thing.

 

[04UZJ100]

I went to a talk by the head scientist from one of the large oil companies. He was mainly talking in regards to Porsches and classic cars, but he mentioned the difference between regular and premium. Long story short, it is beneficial to get premium from certain brands and not at others.

One the east coast, most of the gas comes from the same pipeline and is then blended by the oil companies. Overall, the main difference is the additives that each company blends in. Specifically he mentioned that Shell, Valero, and BP all have significant advantages in their premium gas. Generic brands and Exxon/Mobil do not add enough to make a difference between the regular and premium.
The increase in additives in the good (shell, etc.) fuel over the life of the car should pay for itself in increased mileage. He said that is over the life of the engine, and you would probably not see any real change tank to tank.

As an aside, he said to always use synthetic oil in every car you have (even old classics). The lower temperature at the piston rings is worth any leakage that you may get around the gaskets.

And they test every gasoline additives that come out and they have never come across anything that is beneficial. Basically they mess with the balance of detergents already in your gasoline/oil. He said it is like ordering spaghetti and meatballs at a restaurant and then pouring ketchup on the whole thing.

What if I told all gasoline comes from blended pipelines and terminals that have dozens of refineries feeding them. The only time it becomes BP, or Chevron, or XoM is when the truck driver squirts the bottle of additive into the tank before offload at the station.

 

[TCH2FLY]

... Overall, the main difference is the additives that each company blends in. Specifically he mentioned that Shell, Valero, and BP all have significant advantages in their premium gas. Generic brands and Exxon/Mobil do not add enough to make a difference between the regular and premium. ....

Don't conflate brand additives and octane, that is not the reason fuel is "graded". The MAIN difference between fuel grades is octane and there is a difference regardless of brand. Typically unleaded automotive gas is one of three grades "regular" "mid-grade" or "premium" and the difference (as regulated by the FTC and EPA) is the octane (or anti-knock) rating. In the U.S., unleaded gasoline typically has octane ratings of 87 (regular), 88–90 (midgrade), and 91–94 (premium) and that is regardless of brand. The "additives" will vary by brand and are detergents, stabilizers, corrosion inhibitors and yes they may be exactly the same between grades.

What if I told all gasoline comes from blended pipelines and terminals that have dozens of refineries feeding them. The only time it becomes BP, or Chevron, or XoM is when the truck driver squirts the bottle of additive into the tank before offload at the station.

Yes, gas from multiple refineries is pumped, by grade, through the same pipeline ... no the difference isn't what the truck driver adds at the retailer.

 

[04UZJ100]

Don't conflate brand additives and octane, that is not the reason fuel is "graded". The MAIN difference between fuel grades is octane and there is a difference regardless of brand. Typically unleaded automotive gas is one of three grades "regular" "mid-grade" or "premium" and the difference (as regulated by the FTC and EPA) is the octane (or anti-knock) rating. In the U.S., unleaded gasoline typically has octane ratings of 87 (regular), 88–90 (midgrade), and 91–94 (premium) and that is regardless of brand. The "additives" will vary by brand and are detergents, stabilizers, corrosion inhibitors and yes they may be exactly the same between grades.

Yes, gas from multiple refineries is pumped, by grade, through the same pipeline ... no the difference isn't what the truck driver adds at the retailer.

Yes it is.

The grades are blended together to meet octane requirements at the final terminal. Premium blended with regular, refinery with issues gas is blended/diluted to meet spec. It is far less glorious than you may think.

The difference is the final blend in the tanker truck. Period.

 

[TCH2FLY]

Yes it is.

The grades are blended together to meet octane requirements at the final terminal. Premium blended with regular, refinery with issues gas is blended/diluted to meet spec. It is far less glorious than you may think.

The difference is the final blend in the tanker truck. Period.

I'm not stating there is anything "glorious" about the process.
I think we agree that refineries produce 2 grades of gasoline, regular at a minimum 87 octane and premium at a minimum 91 octane and ship those through the same pipelines to the terminals in batches of each grade not as a blend in the pipeline. The "mid-grade" is usually an on site pump blend of regular and premium. I agree that what is in the tanker is the final blend of what ever additives the brand uses but the octane rating is a function of the refining process (and to a lessor extent the final ethanol blend).

I just disagree with your statement " ... when the truck driver squirts the bottle of additive into the tank before offload at the station"

 

[matte36s50]

A couple of other interesting points made during the oil tech talk.

How you drive is the biggest contributor to engine wear. Even with modern oils, he stressed letting the engine come up to temp. The 10 minute drive to the store is the hardest drive for your engine. For an air cooled 911 you need to drive for at least 30+ mins...

Change the oil when the car is cold, the small amount of oil that will not drain is nothing compared with a cold start and running a car for 10 mins just to warm the oil. Also he changes oil based on time rather than mileage, every 6 months.

Current auto manufacturers oil recommendations are often too thin in his opinion (for better gas mileage). His recommendation is to adjust for the location/weather. I got his recommendation for my 911 and it was definitely heavier than I usually used.

Not saying I follow all of his advice, I am just relaying what he said at the conference.

 

[04UZJ100]

A couple of other interesting points made during the oil tech talk.

How you drive is the biggest contributor to engine wear. Even with modern oils, he stressed letting the engine come up to temp. The 10 minute drive to the store is the hardest drive for your engine. For an air cooled 911 you need to drive for at least 30+ mins...

Change the oil when the car is cold, the small amount of oil that will not drain is nothing compared with a cold start and running a car for 10 mins just to warm the oil. Also he changes oil based on time rather than mileage, every 6 months.

Current auto manufacturers oil recommendations are often too thin in his opinion (for better gas mileage). His recommendation is to adjust for the location/weather. I got his recommendation for my 911 and it was definitely heavier than I usually used.

Not saying I follow all of his advice, I am just relaying what he said at the conference.

5W30 is recommended RoTW in 3UR. In fact. All the way up to 15W40 is spec’d.

 

[2014 LEX 570 GA]

I only buy premium gas for all my vehicles for years now. Call me crazy, but I notice an obvious difference in performance (MPG, acceleration).

 

[LX4x4]

I feel the LX570 throttle response is a little better with premium, there is a bit more torque.
I would contribute that to more advanced timing when premium fuel is used.
Retarded timing result in hotter exhaust gas and exhaust manifold, it may affect longevity, or it may not. LC is not known for their bulletproof exhaust manifolds though.

 

[pvchaitanya]

there are a lot of arguments and articles that premuim fuel is only useful when your engine recommends premium fuel, otherwise there is no difference to your engine, you are wasting money.
also arguments that there is no difference between premium and regular fuel in premium fuel engines.

If you want to see the difference clearly, put both fuels on near empty tanks on motorcycles. You will see their engine rev, torque and trottle response very clearly when using premium vs regular fuel.

My point is, premium fuel give that extra gas mileage for the extra $ you pay. It is not cent to cent extra mileage but the rest of the money which doesn't translate to gas mileage should be viewed as protection and insurance for engine.

 

[TCH2FLY]

If your engine doesn't ping or knock increasing the octane will NOT make a significant difference in your performance or engine life, despite what your ”butt dyno” tells you.
In an objective test of different fuels from pump gas both regular and premium to specialty “race” fuels the Motor Trend show Engine Masters proved there was basically no difference in power (+- 2hp which interestingly might explain the LX LC power diff)

The link if you want to see the full test

Engine Masters Octane Test

 

[M1911]

there are a lot of arguments and articles that premuim fuel is only useful when your engine recommends premium fuel, otherwise there is no difference to your engine, you are wasting money.
also arguments that there is no difference between premium and regular fuel in premium fuel engines.

If you want to see the difference clearly, put both fuels on near empty tanks on motorcycles. You will see their engine rev, torque and trottle response very clearly when using premium vs regular fuel.

My point is, premium fuel give that extra gas mileage for the extra $ you pay. It is not cent to cent extra mileage but the rest of the money which doesn't translate to gas mileage should be viewed as protection and insurance for engine.

I tried using premium in my 200. I track all of my fillups using Fuelly (and have done so for 70k miles). I saw no difference in fuel economy. YMMV.

 

[TCH2FLY]

... If you want to see the difference clearly, put both fuels on near empty tanks on motorcycles. You will see their engine rev, torque and trottle response very clearly when using premium vs regular fuel. ...

"motorcycles" is that any motorcycle or your specific anecdotal experience? If the bike was built to run higher octane you could notice a difference if the tune is set up for it.

My Harley (8.5:1 comp) ran fine on 87 Octane when it was stock, no notable difference with premium until I did a rebuild with a hotter cam and bored with 11.5:1 pistons. Under load it would ping a bit on 91 octane if the timing was too advanced but switching to a 106 Octane that was available at the track it was fine. There was no difference at idle between the two. The difference on the dyno was 5HP (at the wheel) on a 100HP motor when I was able to push more ignition advance with higher octane. I had similar experiences with building high compression VW motors.