Painless 700r4 lock up kit?

[Dynosoar]

I am seeking opinions on the painless 700r4 lock up kit. I am ready to swap my "new to me" 700r4 and rebuilt case into my 60. I am debating if I should let the computer control lock up or use the lock up kit. The TPI computer is primitive compared to the OBDII computers, and I don't think it could deal with the tire and gear difference from the Camaro to the Cruiser. I am running the vss and it's not to far off (within 10%) of my speed per GPS and engine scanner. The kit is kinda pricey (about $180.00), so If I could get away without it I would do it.

Any opinions are appreciated.

Thanks

Dynosoar

 

[Downey]

We sell the Painless lock-up switch kit for about $180.00.
(a) You do not want the ECU to control lock-up because your tire diameter/gear ratio is know where near what the donor vehicle was. You'll burn up the tranny.
(b) There is some cheapie $20.00 valve on the market that is suppose to do the same thing. Basically it lets you boil the gear oil in your tranny, then the jewel who sold it to you tells you to go buy a $150.00 high powered tranny cooler.
(c) Finally I have heard rumor of something similar to the Painless kit at under $100.00??????. If anyone has info on this, please let me know!!!!!

 

[Dynosoar]

We sell the Painless lock-up switch kit for about $180.00.
(a) You do not want the ECU to control lock-up because your tire diameter/gear ratio is know where near what the donor vehicle was. You'll burn up the tranny.
(b) There is some cheapie $20.00 valve on the market that is suppose to do the same thing. Basically it lets you boil the gear oil in your tranny, then the jewel who sold it to you tells you to go buy a $150.00 high powered tranny cooler.
(c) Finally I have heard rumor of something similar to the Painless kit at under $100.00??????. If anyone has info on this, please let me know!!!!!

As to point (a) You do not want the ECU to control lock-up because your tire diameter/gear ratio is know (ed. no) where near what the donor vehicle was. You'll burn up the tranny.

The scanner I plugged into the computer (ECM) shows only a 7% difference in speed (average) for example at 35 mph (GPS) the ECM show 33 mph, at 50 MPH (GPS) the ECM show 46 mph, and at 64 mph (GPS) the ECM shows 60 MPH. Please note this is with the current trans (Turbo 400). Upon studying the schematics it appears the ECM is acting as a relay. In addition I spoke with painless and the tech had a difficult time explaining why their kit has a vacuum switch and factory set up does not need one. I think it is because of the VSS but he could not confirm this. I do not want to burn up the trans, but it seems like an elegant solution if the ECM would take care of the lock up. This is a "Dumb" trans (not electronicly shifted) it has a TV cable and all.

More opinions please

Dynosoar

 

[sixty]

The ECM does the best job of controlling the lockup. It does not control shifting at all. I never liked the vacuum switch that I had on my 700r4 for years, there is always a point at which it would hunt in and out of lockup.

There is no reason to only use the lockup in 4th gear also.

I'm planning on re-wiring my lockup to the ECM, but I have a tuneable ecm that I can change many of the lockup proprties.


Maybe orangefj450 can chime in, but I think it would be real difficult for a lockup control to burn up a trans under normal circumstances. As soon as the line-pressure drops the valve body automatically unlocks the converter.

 

[sixty]

On a 400 the ECM controls shifting. I believe it is just different wiring but I am not aware of TPI application that had a 400 behind it. What ECM do you have, Speed denisty or mass air?

The reason the ECM does not need a vacuum switch is because it can read many different inputs TPS level, MAP (vacuum, depending on year), speed and lockup the converter intellegently, not just in 4th gear with light vacuum.

 

[Dynosoar]

No I am swapping a 700r4 for the 400 thats in there now. The 400 with a split case is going to be for sale in a few weeks. I run a speed density TPI.


Dynosoar

 

[Mace]

Wait, you mean a TH400?

TH400's are not controled by the ECM.

They are mechanical only.

 

[Dynosoar]

Yes, I know. I am currently running a TH400 behind my 350 TPI engine. I know that it is 100% mechanical with a vacuum input. NOT controlled by the ECM

That said, I am swapping a 700r4 with a splitcase into the truck. I am looking for input on how I should control the lock up of the torque converter.

Thanks

Dynosoar

 

[Isotel]

I need a similar solution for my rig, ive got a 700r4 and a tbi 350

i put in the harness for the lockup and the VSS and could not get it to work properly.. the vss was from jags that run.
I ended up disconnecting it all and just run without the lockup.
It Heats up on me on the Highway, but never over 250*, but ive got alot of other factors involved.

if your running a VSS anyway try and get the lockup working off the factory ecm, but if your not running a vss, just get the painless kit, i wish i would have from the start!

 

[Tapage]

Dumb question .. are all 700R4 electronical controled .. ?

Are not a " extreme valve body " manual available to manual control all the shift on the 700R4 .. ?

 

[philos1]

Peter, so your swapping your 700R4 for a TH400????


J/K, I had a painless kit in my 1971 Jimmy on that 700R4 and it worked the business, but yeah I would try and keep it in the ECM you already have.


I wish I knew more so that I could answer your original question. Maybe try the guys over at "Trans-action" in sun valley/sunland. I don't think he's listed in the book but I've been going there since he was in Burbank. I want to say his name is Mark, but don't hold me to it. In any case, he's on Tuxford between Glenoaks and Sunland (Just north of where they split).

 

[sixty]

Wait, you mean a TH400?

TH400's are not controled by the ECM.

They are mechanical only.

http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/ecmpin1227747/747ecm4.jpg

The Tbi ECM came from the factory before the 4l80e in 1-ton trucks with a th400.
I'm not sure how it worked, but the trans used a downshift solenoid controled by the ECM (see the above wiring diagram). Not really computer controlled, but niether is the 700r4, the ECM only controls the lockup.

When going from the TH400 to a 700r4 you only need to figure out a way to control the lockup converter. In most cases the ECM is the best way of accomplishing this and if you can burn chips you control the lock/ unlock parameters in the ECM. The ECM, uses a multitude of parameters when controlling the lockup.

 

[sixty]

Dumb question .. are all 700R4 electronical controled .. ?

Are not a " extreme valve body " manual available to manual control all the shift on the 700R4 .. ?

the computer only controlls the lock-up converter. A manual valve body takes the "automatic" out of shifing and you have to make all shifts your self.

The 700r4's are a good trans but they cost more to build. Even with 4.88's and 35's I didn't need the overdrive often. The low gear is nice.

 

[Elbert]

From what I know:

700R4 transmissions have electronic control over TCC / Torque Converter lockup (ECM Controls)
4l60 and 4180 transmission have electronic control over TCC and shifting. (ECM Controls)
400 and 350 have mechanical controls for shifting with no lock up converter (normal variants).
200 trans has electronic control over TCC (ECM Controls)
2004R trans has electronic control over TCC (ECM Controls)

You need an ECM from a pickup or other vehicle(that a 700 originally came in) that can control the 700, which you would have if you were running a TBI setup or TPI. If you are running a carb...you would need one of the aftermarket control setups...how good those work, I don't know. I would guess that any ECM that had a TCC output could control the TCC, but you might have issues with the wiring configurations between the various setups if you mixed and matched the ECM and transmission.

If I had fuel injection I would certainly use the ECM to control TCC on a 700.

 

[Tapage]

the computer only controlls the lock-up converter. A manual valve body takes the "automatic" out of shifing and you have to make all shifts your self.

One day I will trash my A442 and build a nice 700R4 with manual valve body .. or at least one electronic option to lock it up when I want in any shift ..

Thanks for the info Sixty ..