Everytime I tell myself I don't need bumpers, they are expensive, they are heavy, etc etc, to justify not buying them, this thread keeps popping up . GEEZ guys! Some damn good looking rigs
Builds One World, One LX Build Thread
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Same! Some fine rigs!
CactusHopper
aka PapaCruiser
Thanks a lot for the response.
By RV, I mean a pull-behind trailer. The largest we would ever consider is a 20-25 ft airstream but more likely a 15-20 ft. We will start off with a tent and go from there. Right now we have a huge Walmart special that will probably get blown/torn apart after our first few trips. My biggest concern is it's so large, I'm not sure it will fit in the Big Bend NP Chisos site we have reserved. Need to call the park and ask if they have the max tent size for our site. If it won't, we will use our Walmart Special #2 two-person tent and two people can sleep in the cruiser.
One thing I'm trying to understand is how to handle waste (human and cooking) and showers if camping in an area without facilities. I haven't seen many discussions on how people in the overlanding community deal with waste. All I see is a Trasharoo and I'm pretty sure it's not all fitting in there.... : ) With four people it seems like an issue. I also wake up 1-2 times per night needing to pee (guaranteed), and I don't want to wander the woods twice a nice. Not sure how to handle that other than a portapotty setup in camp or a pee bottle (apparently that's a thing that backpackers do.....).
I have no idea what to do on tires. After reading many many posts, I can't even remember what the basic numbering system means. I need a textbook... Too many numbers and variables for my beginner's brain. I will just message one or two of you guys my use case and have you tell me what to buy, lol. I'm sure I can't go very wrong with a solid 33" on 17 or 18s from a LC or Tundra... Can always change down the road if we find it is limiting. Lucky (or not), our new-to-us LX only has 10-15k left on the tires, so I budgeted new tires already for the next year. Just not new wheels.... So will have to decide if it's worth it going to 17 or 18 now with new tires or to stick with the 20s and new tires.
Glad to see your updated post. I do travel photography as a hobby and really enjoy your photos. Also enjoy your detailed location info to help plan for future trips.
Cheers
What part of houston are in you? It might be helpful for you to see some modz in real life.
As for tires, the first number is the width in milimeters, then the % of the height, and then the rim diameter in inches. The largest you can fit without any modification is 275/70/18 (or any equivalent to that). You can use this site to help with sizes: Tire Size Comparison - https://tiresize.com/comparison/
beyond that size, you can fit up to 35s with "minor" modifications like wheel spacers and moving plastic liners in the wheel well. The main area to look for is clearing the UCAs. Althought 35s are fun, 34s will probably be a great spot for you.
1world1love
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Yeah, no worries. You will probably not be surprised that these are pretty common issues whether you are just starting to camp and off-road travel or have been camping your entire life. That’s what I really have enjoyed about this forum. So many clever ideas and different ways to think about pretty common issues. And likely if you have a question about something, somebody else on here has had the same question. Even better, there are answers to questions you don’t have yet, but will at some point
In any case, the waste issue is one where there is unfortunately not a great solution. For human waste, here are a couple of thoughts I have. At the end of the day though, the more you get out, the more you will figure out what works for you.
- You should always carry a gallon ziplock freezer bag with - a roll of good TP - a bottle of hand sanitizer - a pack of flushable wipes - extra ziploc bags; you should always have this in your truck, no matter what. Consider this survival gear.
- Carry a shovel as well. A foldable one is fine, but not one meant for backpacking. You need to be able to dig a deep hole.
- When planning trips in the backcountry, always know where the campgrounds and recreation areas are on your route - they will have vault toilets at a minimum and never miss an opportunity to hit up a vault toilet before you get far away from one. A lot of trailheads will also have vault toilets.
- Do your kids a favor and get them used to going in the outdoors while they are young;
- For a 10-1, especially In the middle of the night, I wouldn’t overthink it. You don’t want to pee in front of your tent, or in the campsite, but you also don’t need a latrine. Walk a few feet from the site and have at it.
- For a 10-2, that can be more challenging, especially if you haven’t spent a lot of time camping in the wilderness. We have a couple of different solutions depending on where we are going. One is a seat on a bucket with a biodegradable bag. You can buy a powder for the bag that acts as a sort of cat litter. There are “portable” toilets and cartridge toilets like you would find in an RV or boat. Unless you are in very rocky terrain or the ground is frozen, it’s hard to beat digging a deep latrine. I'm sure others have thoughts on this topic as well.
As far as food waste, try to minimize bringing things that will need to be disposed of. We eliminate packaging and pack foods in deli containers or Tupperware before we leave. Ziploc bags are great for freezing meats and things and then you can re-use them for trash. Almost anything you can buy in a can also comes in a bag or box If you look closely. bring drinks in cans instead of bottles. Make most meals ahead of time and freeze them in deli containers or ziplocs, etc.
As a family of four, we have never filled our trasharoo. Even on very long trips, we just don’t generate that much garbage. We have a ton of flattened beer cans though
There are likely more posts about tires on this forum than all other subjects combined. You could spend eternity in analysis paralysis thinking about tires. I'm not naming names, but one of my dear friends who is also on this forum has been through what seems like a half-dozen sets of tires in the past couple of years. At this point his garage looks like a Firestone shop
If you think you need tires soon and want to stick with the stock wheels, you could peruse some of @TeCKis300 posts on tire options. He is running 35s on 20s.
@radman posted some good info above and you should take him up on his offer. His rig is amazing and he is a wealth of knowledge (and he and his family are great people). There are a lot of 200 folks in the Houston area and I found that going out, even on day trips, with a good group can be amazingly helpful and help build up your confidence.
Honestly, I’d do some dry runs first with the fam, if you haven’t already. I’ve got 4 year old twins and I took my son out camping in the backyard when he was 2 to start getting him ready - his sister didn’t seem too keen at the time. First attempt was a flop, but I expected that. 2nd attempt was a success and I took him in a solo trip shortly after that. Then took the whole family and that was a major hit. Now my daughter loves going, too.
If I were you, I’d get in the Texas Overland FB group and try and find the Cheeseburger loop that runs through Sam Houston and Crocket Natl Forests and run that. It’s 80-90% gravel forest service or county roads. You can camp in some of the designated spots in the forest - and id suggest that since it’s hunting season.
It’s an easy loop that you can split into 2 half days and use it to shakedown your setup.
The other one I’d think about is the Ribeye Loop/Texas Hill Country Overland route, that’s west of Austin. I like that one a lot.
My point is, you won’t know what works for you and your fam until you go.
Also - I’m a semi-active backpacker and I’d encourage you to look at your overall camp setup as a system, broken down into 4 things -
1. Transportation
2. Shelter
3. Sleep
4. Kitchen/food
Then tweak each as needed for each trip. And you don’t need a buncha stuff, especially here in Texas, due to the severe lack of public lands.
WRT RTT - I’ve NEVER understood why RTTs are so popular. I can setup my entire camp in about 30 min, and that includes unloading, tents, air pads, etc. And the thought of climbing up/down ladders does not appeal to me, especially with little ones.
Eventually, I’m going to get a tipi tent with a stove and call it a day after that.
Also - if you’re doing BBNP, you’d be doing a disservice if you didn’t go to Big Bend Ranch SP. I enjoyed that one far more than the NP.
The Gaule 2 campsite is EPIC.
CactusHopper
aka PapaCruiser
I'm in Klein (Louetta between I-45 and 290). It would be great to meet up with other folks and see tires, racks, etc. in person and of course meet some folks with similar interests. The Bayou City group on here doesn't seem very active, and while I joined the FB group I'm not on FB often and haven't seen much activity either. Any other groups that meet up?
CactusHopper
aka PapaCruiser
Thanks a lot for the thoughts. Probably will go with a portable, collapsible toilet as it seems the most space-saving and comfortable for everyone. First step is a few campsites with facilities next year, so at least that decision is postponed a while... Sounds like for trash and food, simple meals and prepping in advance is best. Minimizes cooler volume, trash, and makes cooking easier/faster.Yeah, no worries. You will probably not be surprised that these are pretty common issues whether you are just starting to camp and off-road travel or have been camping your entire life. That’s what I really have enjoyed about this forum. So many clever ideas and different ways to think about pretty common issues. And likely if you have a question about something, somebody else on here has had the same question. Even better, there are answers to questions you don’t have yet, but will at some point
In any case, the waste issue is one where there is unfortunately not a great solution. For human waste, here are a couple of thoughts I have. At the end of the day though, the more you get out, the more you will figure out what works for you.
- You should always carry a gallon ziplock freezer bag with - a roll of good TP - a bottle of hand sanitizer - a pack of flushable wipes - extra ziploc bags; you should always have this in your truck, no matter what. Consider this survival gear.
- Carry a shovel as well. A foldable one is fine, but not one meant for backpacking. You need to be able to dig a deep hole.
- When planning trips in the backcountry, always know where the campgrounds and recreation areas are on your route - they will have vault toilets at a minimum and never miss an opportunity to hit up a vault toilet before you get far away from one. A lot of trailheads will also have vault toilets.
- Do your kids a favor and get them used to going in the outdoors while they are young;
- For a 10-1, especially In the middle of the night, I wouldn’t overthink it. You don’t want to pee in front of your tent, or in the campsite, but you also don’t need a latrine. Walk a few feet from the site and have at it.
- For a 10-2, that can be more challenging, especially if you haven’t spent a lot of time camping in the wilderness. We have a couple of different solutions depending on where we are going. One is a seat on a bucket with a biodegradable bag. You can buy a powder for the bag that acts as a sort of cat litter. There are “portable” toilets and cartridge toilets like you would find in an RV or boat. Unless you are in very rocky terrain or the ground is frozen, it’s hard to beat digging a deep latrine. I'm sure others have thoughts on this topic as well.
As far as food waste, try to minimize bringing things that will need to be disposed of. We eliminate packaging and pack foods in deli containers or Tupperware before we leave. Ziploc bags are great for freezing meats and things and then you can re-use them for trash. Almost anything you can buy in a can also comes in a bag or box If you look closely. bring drinks in cans instead of bottles. Make most meals ahead of time and freeze them in deli containers or ziplocs, etc.
As a family of four, we have never filled our trasharoo. Even on very long trips, we just don’t generate that much garbage. We have a ton of flattened beer cans though
There are likely more posts about tires on this forum than all other subjects combined. You could spend eternity in analysis paralysis thinking about tires. I'm not naming names, but one of my dear friends who is also on this forum has been through what seems like a half-dozen sets of tires in the past couple of years. At this point his garage looks like a Firestone shop
If you think you need tires soon and want to stick with the stock wheels, you could peruse some of @TeCKis300 posts on tire options. He is running 35s on 20s.
@radman posted some good info above and you should take him up on his offer. His rig is amazing and he is a wealth of knowledge (and he and his family are great people). There are a lot of 200 folks in the Houston area and I found that going out, even on day trips, with a good group can be amazingly helpful and help build up your confidence.
I am definitely up for meeting folks locally. Seeing things in person and talking to people in person gives a much better perspective. And I would be very hesitant to head anywhere truly remote without a more knowledgeable travel partner or group. One thing I've noticed with the LC/LX forums compared to the Tacoma forums (I previously had a Tacoma) is the owners seem to be more mid-age with families. Taco users were everything from college kid to families, but leaned towards single men and couples without kids. That is a huge plus as I hope to meet some other like-minded families in the area with similar interests.
I've read most of @TeCKis300 posts on his tires, it is just hard to digest and recall everything. I've been meaning to message him specifically about why he sticks with 20s when the overwhelming majority on here go to 17/18s. If it's just to maintain the stock look and handling, ok, but he had to do a few other things to maintain that... So is it really worth it? He is welcome to reply here, but I don't want to hijack your thread anymore either...
reddog90
SILVER Star
BCC isn't very active on mud, but fairly active on FB. And we typically have meet up the last week of each month, location and date announced on the FB group.
CactusHopper
aka PapaCruiser
Thanks a lot for the input... The SHNF is on my list as we have some property in there to use as a possible base (no house just land). There are even some interesting spots along Lake Conroe it seems. Just enough to go out for one night or two and test gear, as you say. We have two Scout campouts this Oct/Nov, so I'm thinking maybe an overnight on Lake Conroe or SHNF in Dec/Jan, then BB in Feb. Then if we are motivated, a night or two each in Mar/Apr/May. That should tell us very well if we're all enjoying it and if not, is there some piece of gear that can make it enjoyable...Honestly, I’d do some dry runs first with the fam, if you haven’t already. I’ve got 4 year old twins and I took my son out camping in the backyard when he was 2 to start getting him ready - his sister didn’t seem too keen at the time. First attempt was a flop, but I expected that. 2nd attempt was a success and I took him in a solo trip shortly after that. Then took the whole family and that was a major hit. Now my daughter loves going, too.
If I were you, I’d get in the Texas Overland FB group and try and find the Cheeseburger loop that runs through Sam Houston and Crocket Natl Forests and run that. It’s 80-90% gravel forest service or county roads. You can camp in some of the designated spots in the forest - and id suggest that since it’s hunting season.
It’s an easy loop that you can split into 2 half days and use it to shakedown your setup.
The other one I’d think about is the Ribeye Loop/Texas Hill Country Overland route, that’s west of Austin. I like that one a lot.
My point is, you won’t know what works for you and your fam until you go.
Also - I’m a semi-active backpacker and I’d encourage you to look at your overall camp setup as a system, broken down into 4 things -
1. Transportation
2. Shelter
3. Sleep
4. Kitchen/food
Then tweak each as needed for each trip. And you don’t need a buncha stuff, especially here in Texas, due to the severe lack of public lands.
WRT RTT - I’ve NEVER understood why RTTs are so popular. I can setup my entire camp in about 30 min, and that includes unloading, tents, air pads, etc. And the thought of climbing up/down ladders does not appeal to me, especially with little ones.
Eventually, I’m going to get a tipi tent with a stove and call it a day after that.
Also - if you’re doing BBNP, you’d be doing a disservice if you didn’t go to Big Bend Ranch SP. I enjoyed that one far more than the NP.
The Gaule 2 campsite is EPIC.
View attachment 3453757
Would love to visit BB Ranch but I'll have my parents as well, and we have a few nights planned in Marfa/FtDavis/Balmoura, so not sure we will have the time to go into the ranch. I also don't want to go anywhere remote and off-road with them at this point. In BB we will probably stay on the paved roads just because my parents are in their late 70/80's and if we even had someone trip/fall, I don't want a 1-2 hour drive just to get to a paved road.
CactusHopper
aka PapaCruiser
Got it, guess I need to check FB more often....
Got your IM and figured I'd answer you here.
Note that what I'll point out is not black and white, and more a degree of. It's part of tailoring for each individuals priorities, and doesn't suggest a right/wrong/better.
I personally choose to stick with 20s as I knew I would be towing at the upper end of the spectrum for the stated capacity of the 200-series. To be honest, I'm over. I needed to ensure that I had good safe towing stability while being over, and 20" wheels with wider width gives me that. I also prioritize on-road performance and handling sharpness and again 20s gives me that.
Perhaps diametrically, I also need capable offroad performance. Sidewall compliance, clearance, traction, and floatation can be achieved in many ways. Going down to smaller wheels is one way to do that. I choose to go the opposite direction with larger tires. Even then, I went with an incremental approach to be sure I could always tow my 28' Airstream safely even with a relatively shorter wheelbase. Many solid towing miles on 33s gave me that confidence to go to 35s. Did it decrease stability a bit - yes, but it still works great towing, and all around.
Did I trade off some off-road performance? Likely yes. But that's not the only way I use my car with 95% on-road. Will my LX do it all on and off-road? Heck yes and 20s are part of the recipe for how I like to use my car.
CactusHopper
aka PapaCruiser
I guess where I am confused is that the consensus I have read here is that 20s equals jitteriness / poor stability on-road vs. expectations and going to 17/18s "made it drive so much smoother!" and more "stable" than 20s. You're saying 20s with a larger diameter and wider tire resolves the issue, which was really just lack of sidewall and narrow width and not per se the 20 inch wheel diameter?
Also, is it fair to say that with 33s on the 20s and a wide 33 at that, then the 20s perform "better" on highway than with the stock tire size? I ask b/c I currently have 285/50R20 Yokohama Geolandar H/T with around 8/32 left (just purchased used at 90k) and there are times on paved roads that aren't perfectly smooth (I'm in Houston) it bounces left/right. Of course, it could be shocks or something else but let's assume it isn't... Whatever I go with, I'd like to reduce that minor negative ideally.
Overall, I think I am in the same position as you and that's why I'm harassing you... : ) We will very likely tow, though I may not go up to a 28' because I worry about liability in an accident if over GVWR. So towing is likely while climbing mt. everest is very unlikely. So saving money and time by sticking with the 20s and putting on the largest tires that will fit without modifying the LX seems like a sensible path. But will it drive as nice or nicer on the highway than stock? Sounds like that's a yes...
Now I need to go back and re-read yours and others' threads on 33-35s with 20s... Like how not to break my car and ruin the speedometer/odometer.... =)
FYI - I wasn't sure if the etiquette on here allows side topics like this. I didn't want to take over the topic... Thanks for the reply.
1world1love
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No worries about rabbit holes. There are some threads that try to maintain focus - this isn’t one of them
The issue with 20s is less about the wheel size, but rather the stock tire size. Generally speaking, larger wheels with lower profile tires will provide much better handling, especially in turns, but there is always a trade off in ride quality. If you fit a larger tire on 20s, you increase ride quality, towing capacity, and increase how much you can air down on the trail.
The challenge is making a big tire on a big wheel fit. Hence the use of spacers.
CactusHopper
aka PapaCruiser
Thanks... So to summarize:No worries about rabbit holes. There are some threads that try to maintain focus - this isn’t one of them
The issue with 20s is less about the wheel size, but rather the stock tire size. Generally speaking, larger wheels with lower profile tires will provide much better handling, especially in turns, but there is always a trade off in ride quality. If you fit a larger tire on 20s, you increase ride quality, towing capacity, and increase how much you can air down on the trail.
The challenge is making a big tire on a big wheel fit. Hence the use of spacers.
1. Wheel size is less a factor than tire size in achieving balanced "performance" for on-road, towing, and mild/serious off-roading
2. If you can get enough sidewall and width via a 33-35 inch tire, a 20-inch wheel can achieve equal ride quality, towing capacity, and air-down ability as 17/18s
3. If #2 isn't 100% true, it is 95% true and in reality the differences are minimal and irrelevant for the scenarios noted in #1
Thus, keeping with 20s maintains the stock aesthetic and you don't have to buy new wheels.
Couple other possible benefits?
1. Are the combined wheel and tire also lighter than an equivalent size tire on 17/18s?
2. Can you have a larger brake/rotor or is that not dependent on wheel size? I guess you get more air cooling with a larger wheel but maybe it's not significant?
Some possible negatives:
- Tires may cost more and there are fewer options
- You are limited to a maximum sidewall and width of 35-ish on 20s; going to 17/18 would allow you to increase sidewall/width further without modifying the body (but again, this isn't a negative if you don't need that extra)
Am I missing any negatives?
1world1love
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- #336
So we normally take a trip on the eastern side of the Sierras in the fall. We had a bit of troubling scheduling but found that Veterans Day weekend worked out, so we started planning.
Long story short, what planned as an epic trip with several trucks, people, and dogs eventually became an epic trip with two trucks, two people, and two dogs - also, due to last minute scheduling snafus and road closures, the plans changed from the eastern Sierras to the Shasta-Trinity National Forest and the Lassen National Forest; essentially a Northern California tour of the national Forests around Mount Shasta, the Trinity Alps, and Lassen Peak.
Long story short, what planned as an epic trip with several trucks, people, and dogs eventually became an epic trip with two trucks, two people, and two dogs
- also, due to last minute scheduling snafus and road closures, the plans changed from the eastern Sierras to the Shasta-Trinity National Forest and the Lassen National Forest; essentially a Northern California tour of the national Forests around Mount Shasta, the Trinity Alps, and Lassen Peak.
1world1love
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- #337
1world1love
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- Thread starter
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1world1love
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There was a nice couple in a LR Discovery in street tires that drove quite a long ways in on a road to an alpine lake that starts out pretty decently but eventually deteriorates into a challenging rock crawl. By the time we saw them, it was already late and turning around and driving out in the dark was probably not a good idea, so we got them in to a camping spot. The next morning, we had to pull them up a steep incline to get out.
There are lessons to be learned. Know when to turn around, travel in groups, and if you have to (or want to) travel in a solo vehicle, know about the trails you plan to do and that your vehicle is suitable.
In the end, the Discovery did a pretty good job with the help of some insanely good/patient spotting by @100kiwi
There are lessons to be learned. Know when to turn around, travel in groups, and if you have to (or want to) travel in a solo vehicle, know about the trails you plan to do and that your vehicle is suitable.
In the end, the Discovery did a pretty good job with the help of some insanely good/patient spotting by @100kiwi
Well done helping out! I have learned that out on the trails, ppl are usually helpful regardless of what everyone is driving.
