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Hello, I was looking for some forum feedback on how King shocks perform on road when installed on a series 200. Thanks
There's no easy answer to this. King/Fox/Radflo require custom tuning to match the intended use. This is inherently different than something like a BP-51 that is off the shelf designed for the 200. If the off the shelf tune meets your needs, it's an easy deal. But if it doesn't you're stuck. Other than minor compression adjustment you're stuck with what the manufacturer considers the right tuning.
So, can you get a King to work great on the road? Sure. Same as you can get it to work great off road, or a balance between the two. You need to work with a vendor that has experience with King and the 200 series and will custom tune them for your intended use. Filthy/Accutune/Downsouth would be good starts.
Is this for everyone? No. There is time and effort involved because it might be close but not perfect first try. Know that going in. But it is the ultimate flexibility. I will no longer buy any performance shock that I can't re-valve myself. After tuning shocks for my FJ-62 and my GX460, and then against my better judgement buying non tunable shocks for an Audi project, I'll never buy off the shelf again. I'm currently deciding between King and Fox for my 200 (Radflo has a great product but I don't want to deal with the owner again).
thanks so much for the feedback! That’s very, very helpful! I was looking at the BP-51 as well, but really couldn’t find much online feedback with that setup. I didn’t realize that there are these companies where they can specifically tune the shock set up. I feel like Goldilocks looking for the bed that is just right!There's no easy answer to this. King/Fox/Radflo require custom tuning to match the intended use. This is inherently different than something like a BP-51 that is off the shelf designed for the 200. If the off the shelf tune meets your needs, it's an easy deal. But if it doesn't you're stuck. Other than minor compression adjustment you're stuck with what the manufacturer considers the right tuning.
So, can you get a King to work great on the road? Sure. Same as you can get it to work great off road, or a balance between the two. You need to work with a vendor that has experience with King and the 200 series and will custom tune them for your intended use. Filthy/Accutune/Downsouth would be good starts.
Is this for everyone? No. There is time and effort involved because it might be close but not perfect first try. Know that going in. But it is the ultimate flexibility. I will no longer buy any performance shock that I can't re-valve myself. After tuning shocks for my FJ-62 and my GX460, and then against my better judgement buying non tunable shocks for an Audi project, I'll never buy off the shelf again. I'm currently deciding between King and Fox for my 200 (Radflo has a great product but I don't want to deal with the owner again).
No, not really looking to lift. The wife is short and I have a 2 1/5 year old that’s just starting to climb in and out, so I need to keep it reasonable. I’m running stock size BFG KO2’s right now. I’d like to step up on size in tire, maybe. Id like to achieve a slightly better ride quality. It’s really great now, just want to see if there’s a way to improve without getting crazy. Honestly the truck spends the majority of time on Los Angeles freeways. But sometimes that’s like being out on BLM land! Between the potholes and the crappy patch work, the rig can bounce around a bit..but that just be the way it is. I know it will never be a trophy truck..I’m just trying to strike the right mix between streetability and off road capability. Maybe I already have that in stock form??So, no lift? Are you just buying shocks? No off-reading?
If so, then stick to stock shocks designed by Toyota specifically for LC200.
There are a lot of guys on here with tons of experience with the BP-51. They seems to be a little less “high maintenance” and equally as comfortable as Kings. There’s a lightly used set in the classifieds with a good price. I’ve contemplated scooping them up just to do some actual user comparison, but I just don’t have time for that.thanks so much for the feedback! That’s very, very helpful! I was looking at the BP-51 as well, but really couldn’t find much online feedback with that setup. I didn’t realize that there are these companies where they can specifically tune the shock set up. I feel like Goldilocks looking for the bed that is just right!
No, not really looking to lift. The wife is short and I have a 2 1/5 year old that’s just starting to climb in and out, so I need to keep it reasonable. I’m running stock size BFG KO2’s right now. I’d like to step up on size in tire, maybe. Id like to achieve a slightly better ride quality. It’s really great now, just want to see if there’s a way to improve without getting crazy. Honestly the truck spends the majority of time on Los Angeles freeways. But sometimes that’s like being out on BLM land! Between the potholes and the crappy patch work, the rig can bounce around a bit..but that just be the way it is. I know it will never be a trophy truck..I’m just trying to strike the right mix between streetability and off road capability. Maybe I already have that in stock form??
I’ll do some hunting on this forum to find some info on the BP’s. I don’t want it go crazy, drop a bunch of cash and be unhappy...I’m already married!There are a lot of guys on here with tons of experience with the BP-51. They seems to be a little less “high maintenance” and equally as comfortable as Kings. There’s a lightly used set in the classifieds with a good price. I’ve contemplated scooping them up just to do some actual user comparison, but I just don’t have time for that.
Goldilocks is right, but if you go down the King route, don’t buy more than you need. I have 2.5s, and I haven’t even begun to scratch the surface in their capability.
Agreed, I can’t see any aftermarket company having anything close to Toyota R&D information.If so, then STOCK SHOCKS are the best option. For stock everything, Toyota stock shocks will be better than anything aftermarket. Kings are good, but most (if not all) are installed on lifted rigs with off-roading capability being top on list of priorities.
You cannot compare the R&D of Toyota engineering team vs. Kings or Bilsteins.
Toyota LC shocks are made for stock LC200 to be best of all worlds (handling, comfort, off-road, durability, and low maintenance). They are not good IF you go past the stock configuration, which is where Kings and Bilstein come in.
IMO, you will be flushing money down toilet in what you need.
There's no easy answer to this. King/Fox/Radflo require custom tuning to match the intended use. This is inherently different than something like a BP-51 that is off the shelf designed for the 200. If the off the shelf tune meets your needs, it's an easy deal. But if it doesn't you're stuck. Other than minor compression adjustment you're stuck with what the manufacturer considers the right tuning.
So, can you get a King to work great on the road? Sure. Same as you can get it to work great off road, or a balance between the two. You need to work with a vendor that has experience with King and the 200 series and will custom tune them for your intended use. Filthy/Accutune/Downsouth would be good starts.
Is this for everyone? No. There is time and effort involved because it might be close but not perfect first try. Know that going in. But it is the ultimate flexibility. I will no longer buy any performance shock that I can't re-valve myself. After tuning shocks for my FJ-62 and my GX460, and then against my better judgement buying non tunable shocks for an Audi project, I'll never buy off the shelf again. I'm currently deciding between King and Fox for my 200 (Radflo has a great product but I don't want to deal with the owner again).
One big consideration for toyota when designing the OE dampers is cost, even on an $80k+ vehicle. Reliability as well. Both of these would preclude toyota using something along the lines of King or BPs from the factory.
So no, I don’t necessarily agree that stock shocks are absolutely the best for what you want to do. The adjustability of kings allows them to be perfect, if you put in the effort. Not to mention if you tax the suspension system the larger piston and remote reservoir allows a lot more capability. But understand that they will require more maintenance and possible downtime dialing things in.
But.. I’ve been researching this myself. King’s will lift the front at least 1” possibly 1.5” with the standard 600# coils. You can go with the 500# coils (stock landcruiser rate) and get to stock ride height if desired.
What special tools are needed to do at-home shock adjustments?
What special tools are needed to do at-home shock adjustments?
Setting aside external bypass for a minute you need to be able to tear down the shock. Filthy has some great youtube content.
Nitrogen cylinder from my welding supply shop (smallest will do many rebuilds or pressure top offs). Regulator and ideally a zero loss chuck (one with a little thumb screw that depresses the needle in the valve). Radflo uses a self sealing valve instead of a Schrader valve. These suck to deal with. You need a needle adapter and threaded guide. Fortunately you can easily swap them for a standard Schrader valve (apparently they don't leak down as much as a Schrader, but the needle is more hassle than checking the pressure slightly more often).
Beyond the nitrogen side of things it depends on the manufacturer. For Bilstein 7100 basic hand tools. For Radflo a cheap spanner in the right size. King and Fox I've only watched videos but looks like just a spanner as well.
From there it is just internal wear parts as needed or individual shims if you are tuning. Really it's more work to get coilovers off and reinstalled than to rebuild the shock itself or change the tune.
For coilovers add in spring compressors. I use SPC's beefiest home model. Be cautious here, there can be a lot of stored energy.
With external bypass you can do a lot of tuning without removing the shock or tearing them down. This isn't remote reservoirs, these are shocks with additional tubes on the outside that house valves that you can change with hand tools. Bypasses allow a certain amount of fluid to bypass the main valving for a portion of the shocks travel. Each external tube controls a range of the travel, compression or rebound. Coilovers can be had with internal bypasses. You can't tune them like an external but it gives you a more sophisticated and overall tunable setup. BP-51s are internal bypass with remote reservoirs and external compression adjusts (which also are not bypasses).
I am likely to go King or Fox, 3 tube external bypass rear and reservoirs and internal bypass front with reservoirs and compression adjusters. Unless there is a downside to externals that I haven't learned about yet. Decision will be made when I decide which vendor I will work with and their experience/recommendations for my usage. External frankly would be more of a geeky interest then necessity, but I'd like to give them a try.
Stock shocks for stock LC are the best? Give me a break. I have had (3) 200 series and never did I think “man, i should have kept with the amazing OEM shocks” They are terrible unless you drive like an old lady. You don’t need an excuse to buy Kings if you’re thinking is they must be more for off-road built 200’s. Kings and ICONs are a true upgrade for overall suspension performance whether for on-road or off. I personally would aim towards Kings and Filthy Motorsports or Accutune will work with you on what exactly you want out of your suspension. They are not high Maintenance unless you’re on a serious budget or drive a ton of miles(over 15k per year) or best the crud out of them. Then I can see it being a bit of a pain having them revalued every 50k miles or so.
So you are buying just the shocks...while keeping the stock springs?
On some of its vehicles, Toyota would have different shocks and/or springs based on tire package. So, no, Toyota just does not use the cheapest thing out there. The suspension design and tuning take a lot of time and $$$$.
IF i was the OP, then yeah get the Kings/Bils...but get the WHOLE suspension system...not just get the shocks and hope that it goes well with the stock springs.
Wasn't there a recent thread about ICONS leaking or something?
Revalving every 50k? Why do you have to do that on a shock that is supposed to be tough and durable? Seriously, every 50k?? I drive 18-20k miles annually...and my LC is not even my daily driver!
So you are buying just the shocks...while keeping the stock springs?
On some of its vehicles, Toyota would have different shocks and/or springs based on tire package. So, no, Toyota just does not use the cheapest thing out there. The suspension design and tuning take a lot of time and $$$$.
IF i was the OP, then yeah get the Kings/Bils...but get the WHOLE suspension system...not just get the shocks and hope that it goes well with the stock springs.
Wasn't there a recent thread about ICONS leaking or something?
Revalving every 50k? Why do you have to do that on a shock that is supposed to be tough and durable? Seriously, every 50k?? I drive 18-20k miles annually...and my LC is not even my daily driver!