oil pressure switch, EDIC relay, what!?

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I got the 2H started with some starter fluid. After it purged the white smoke, it idled fine, so long as I held the key. Release the key, motor shuts off.

Disconnected the EDIC arm. Motor runs and idles fine. Turn the key to the off position, even remove the key, motor still runs. Have to use the Stop on the throttle body to s*** it down.

So, is this the oil pressure switch? EDIC Relay, EDIC motor itself? Oil levels are OK. Oil pressure gauge needs work, but is not related to the EDIC, from what I know.

Could a bad ground be at play? I have intermittent, but STRONG starter action. I can get several good starts in a row, followed by 10 dead attempts, then good....Just throwing out possibilities...

Ideas?
 
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my guess is some one tampered with the electrical or a bad ground? it sounds to me like the edic is crossed with the start not the acc in the fuse panel or somewere down the line good luck with this one electrical problem suck but seem so stupid n simple when u figre them out
also check out the edic relay i beleve there is one
 
Hmmm. This was a diesel swap... Jiggered wiring, see my build thread, but it didn't exhibit this problem for 20 some-odd good starts and an solid hour drive, issue-free. If a wiring issue, it wouldn't be an install error, 'cuz that would have been immediatley evident, unless it was a failure, as in a wire disconnect or jiggled loose, or rat chewed or something. I'll have the electrical reevaluated.

Anyone others?
 
That it runs fine with the arm disconnected tells us that the IP is good.

Get a helper and watch where the EDIC moves when you have the switch in START, RUN, and OFF.

Have you put a DOM on the oil pressure sender for the EDIC? Make sure it's switching correctly?

In the START position, the EDIC should be commanded to overlook low oil pressure, so that could certainly explain what's going on.

Dan
 
That it runs fine with the arm disconnected tells us that the IP is good.

Get a helper and watch where the EDIC moves when you have the switch in START, RUN, and OFF.

Have you put a DOM on the oil pressure sender for the EDIC? Make sure it's switching correctly?

In the START position, the EDIC should be commanded to overlook low oil pressure, so that could certainly explain what's going on.

Dan

The diesels have a low oil pressure cut out integrated into the wiring system. When the oil pressure drops to below running pressure, it automatically shuts the engine down to prevent damage. I would check your oil pressure.:cheers:
 
First of all, the injection pump is very rarely the cause of fuel system problems. The EDIC is another matter.

You didn't mention why you needed to use starter fluid to get the engine to fire up, however, is this normally the case? (if so, what sort of shape are your injector nozzles in?) Since this is unclear, I'll first walk through the basic things to check.

Let's assume that the engine normally turns over when you turn the key...

If the engine doesn't start, then first thing to check is whether fuel is getting to the fuel injection nozzles; if so, then check to see if fuel is getting to the injector pump - disconnect inlet hoses to the feed pump and feed fuel from a separate container directly to the feed pump. If the engine starts, then the problem is with the sedimenter or fuel line from the tank. If the engine doesn't start, then check the fuel filter or line between feed pump and injection pump. If normal, the feed pump or injection pump is faulty.

next possibility to examine: fuel leakage from any of the injection pipes. Make sure the pipe fixing nuts are down tight.

Next: check to see if you have an inoperative pre-heating system: with the starter switch to the ON position and the glow indicator illuminated, check that there is voltage supplied to the glow plug a few seconds later. After that, voltage should drop to about 1/2. If there is no initial voltage, check for battery voltage at the + side of the glow plug current sensor (the Resistor side). If okay, replace sensor. If no voltage, the main glow relay is faulty and should be replaced.
If there is no 1/2 voltage following the full voltage period, check for battery voltage on + side of the Resistor (intake manifold side). If okay, then replace the resistor. If no voltage, the secondary glow relay is dead and should be replaced.

Finally, check the glow plugs themseves for resistance.

Okay, those are the basic steps to check when having starting problems.

Getting back to when you first turn the key - does the indicator light for 'Glow' come on? If not, and leaving the key in the same position, have you checked the ENGINE and GLOW fuses? If fuses and glow indicator bulb are good, then check for battery voltage at terminal 3 of the pre-heating timer connector (on the wire harness side). If you have voltage, the pre-heating timer is faulty and should be replaced.

Let's assume that the 'Glow' light comes on as normal, which would be for about 2 seconds at an ambient temp of 68˚F, longer when colder. With the ignition switch to ON, check for battery voltage to terminal 1 of the Pre-heating timer (looking at the timer terminal end, 1 is at the upper right corner). No voltage, check that there is 1v between terminals 9 and 12. If not, replace glow plug current sensor, if there is voltage, then the timer is faulty.

If there is voltage to terminal 1 of the pre-heating timer with the ingnition s/w to ON, check to see if voltage at terminal 1 is terminated after engine is started. If not, then either there is a fault with the charging system; if okay, then again the timer is pooched.


--> Now, from your description, it sounds like the problem might be revolving around the good old EDIC system. It is best to check it systematically. To check the operation of the EDIC control motor, get a helper to turn the ignition switch while you watch the EDIC motor directly. First disconnect the connector from the oil pressure switch (NOT the oil pressure sender). When the ignition switch is turned to ON, the fuel control motor lever and pump adjusting lever should be positioned between the marks on each of the two components.

When the ignition is turned to START, the pump adjusting lever should move to the over-injection position (the EDIC motor will draw the lever towards itself, about 78˚away from the furthest swing in the opposite direction, which is STOP).

After starting the engine, the pump adjusting lever should return about halfway back. This is the 'drive' position.

When the ignition switch is turned to OFF, the pump adjusting lever should move all the way over (i.e., the rod is being pushed away from the EDIC motor) to the STOP position. The engine should stop.

Now, if all the above checks turned out well, start the engine and ground the oil pressure switch connector. The pump adjusting lever should move to the STOP position.

Finally, the oil pressure switch itself: check that there is continuity with the engine stopped. Check that there is no continuity with the engine running (allow 45 seconds or so from a cold start before checking). If operation is not correct. replace the switch.

It sounds like you didn't do this engine and wiring swap yourself, which unfortunately leaves you a fair bit more in the dark about how some of the parts work and what goes where. Have you obtained a Toyota 2H engine service manual? Very helpful.

Good luck!
 
The diesels have a low oil pressure cut out integrated into the wiring system. When the oil pressure drops to below running pressure, it automatically shuts the engine down to prevent damage. I would check your oil pressure.:cheers:

Henry James covered it all very well.

the low oil pressure switch is wired into the edic relay. if you disconnect the edic arm, the low oil pressure response will not work.

Tofu, do you have the edic relay in the truck, or was it wired without that?
j
 
I did this swap with lots of help. I did none of the wiring except installing extensions to the wiper reservoir pump and a/c compressor. So, the the engine is still largely a mystery to me. I have the FSM downloaded. The EDIC relay is bolted to the engine side of the firewall.

I have a manual glow, see the last page of my build thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/182582-sheilas-evisceration-birth-hj62-tofudebeest-6.html

The glow seems to work just fine, just like the original keyed version, only I now have a dash mounted manual button.

I'll pull in some help and go through Henry's sage and detailed advice.
FYI: I had no starting or EDIC issues whatsoever when this powertrain was in Sheila. This is the "working out the bugs" on a diesel swap that they speak of...
 
FOUND IT!!!

My fuel control relay (EDIC relay) is burnt to s***. When opened, there's a burnt smell and a hot spot where it is clear that it popped.

A few questions:

1) RADD, 4Wheel Auto, G&S, CDan or who else would be the best source for a replacement? Anyone got a part number?


2) When I moved my new dash-mounted glow push button (I used the FJ62's ignition) from the far left side (in the blank spot) to where the 4WH dash button was (I am using a manual transfercase, rendering that button obsolete), I shorted something out, there were sparks and I blew 3 or 4 fuses (all replaced now, of course). This is likely what caused my EDIC relay to fail. What else might have I fried? Should I just take a chance and put in a new EDIC relay, or is it likely that it too will pop?

The oil pressure switch is fine, it seems.

Unrelated, but I do need to figure out which oil pressure sending unit to use. Right now I have a 3FE unit on a 2H motor and I am no longer sure which oil pressure gauge pod I have in that instrument cluster. It will only come up about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way up the gauge. My water temperature gauge and/or sender is also dead. The needle is motionless. Driving with poor oil pressure monitoring and no coolant temp gauge is a little off-putting. I will install a separate 3 gauge pod (boost, EGT and oil pressure), but that's a longer-term plan, for when I turbo.
 
Radd will definitely have Fuel Control Relays.

I would test the wires to and from the Fuel control relay before installation, to be sure you have both continuity and no shorts to ground.

There are four mono-colored wires which run from the relay to the EDIC motor. The other wires going to the EDIC are the coming from the starting circuit, the oil pressure switch (yellow-black), the ENGINE fuse (should be black-yellow), and the main power (connects to the same wire that supplies power to your ignition switch) which is a black wire. This black wire connects to the wire going from one of the fusible links at the battery to the ignition switch. The only other wire connected to the fuel control relay is the white-black stripe, which goes to ground.

As for the water temp sensor, that is but a single wire, usu. yellow-green stripe, and easy to check for continuity. If the wire has continuity, then either the gauge is pooched, or the temperature sensor. You should be able to narrow it down easily enough. To test the temp sender, you need to know the water temperature first, to know if it is sending accurately (at 50˚C, it should have 226Ω resistance, and at 115˚C (239˚F), or normal operating temp, the resistance should measure 26Ω.

To test the water temp gauge, you need to pull the combination meter out to access the back and check across the two terminals or the gauge - should measure 25Ω.

Now, here's one thing - the wiring for the water temp gauge is a bit different between the (BJ/HJ) and the FJ series - which way did you wire yours?

In fact, I note, looking through the 1980 FSM, that the wiring for all the combination meter circuits are different between gas and diesel models.

I don't believe that the oil pressure senders are any different between F and B/H motors. There are 12v/24v versions though...

You can test the oil pressure sender with a test bulb: disconnect the wire to the sender, and connect a 3.4W bulb, one end to the sender and one end to the '+' terminal of the battery. With the engine off, the bulb should not light up. With the engine running, the bulb should flash, the rate of flashing varying with the engine rpm.

The FSM shows all these testing procedures, in the 'Body Electrical' section.
 
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The stock oil pressure gauge on my truck goes to 2/3s from nothing on startup, then as it warms, it goes to about 1/4 at idle and between that and 2/3s according to engine Rpms.
HTH
 
I am, per usual, awed not only by the expertise here, but in the generosity and willingness to "help a brother out". I'm indebted. Thank you.

As for my hard starts, that would be because the fusible link at the + terminal going to my glow plugs was disconnected (broken lock on the plastic plug...wiggled loose)! Doh! Plugged back in, it fires up no problem. I don’t know yet if the starter will still be tempermental… We shall see.

I see a light at the end of this year-long tunnel and it isn’t a train coming towards me! YAY!
 
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Would you believe that RADD had only the later version of the EDIC relay (naturally, as they only got the 2H in 87-88), 4Wheel Auto had none, Neil at RooDogs in Australia has not had one in a long time, and that Marv had just one used one ($100), which I bought. New they're $312.52 (US) from SOR. I wonder if CDan could have gotten me a new one for under $200? Prolly not.

Link for photos:
edic motor repair
 
Last time I talked to CDan, he told me that there are no diesel parts listings on the US EPC, so maybe he wouldn't have been much help.

I'm not so sure there are any differences between EDIC systems from B series to H series engines, or from one year to the next. Comparing my 1980 manual wiring diagram with the one out of the 1985 manual, there is no obvious wiring difference. 4 wires in, 4 wires out to EDIC motor, and one wire to ground. The wires coming in are two from the ignition, one is power via fusible link at battery and the other is the wire from the low oil pressure switch. The ones I've seen all look identical. The EDIC relay just operates the motor to control the fuel injection rack in certain positions. I can observe no wiring or functional difference in the EDIC system, looking at the wiring diagrams, from 1979 BJ40 through to 1986 HJ75. Of course, there could have been changes after that date, and I'd be curious to know what they were. Heck, there's a lot of things to learn about that system, and I'm glad I don't have it in my truck 'cause a lot of people seem to have problems with that relay.

Perhaps Lost Marbles (Tom) can look on his EPC and see what he can unearth.

Good thing you were able to locate a relay though. Hope it all works out well!
 
Thanks. Obviously the 12v and 24v ones are different, but you're right, the entire line of 3B and 2H motor-equipped TLC's used the same EDIC relay, except (incidentally) when they changed the 2H block in 87, according to John at RADD.
 
...
Perhaps Lost Marbles (Tom) can look on his EPC and see what he can unearth...

Hi there.

Sorry I haven't been following this thread and I've only just briefly skimmed through it now so I'm not really sure what is required of me.

But here are all the listings I get for EDIC relays related to landcruisers from the EPC by doing a search on the EDIC relay code (28590):
EDICrelaysLC1.webp

EDICrelaysLC2.webp

EDICrelaysLC3.webp

:cheers:
EDICrelaysLC1.webp
EDICrelaysLC2.webp
EDICrelaysLC3.webp
 
That's a damn good question, and I am REALLY crossing my fingers that what Mario at Marv's place sold me is the right one!
 
Well to clarify those search results (looking only at landcruisers) we have:

24Volt:
57020
56100
56070

And for 12Volt:
57010
56090
56060

(with the voltage of 56011 being unspecified on the EPC so I've left that one out. It is a "very early relay" too.)
 
I just called and they put Marv on. The part I bought is a 57010 unit. Let's just hope it fits. If not, I understand the only differences are the plug, which presumably could be swapped/grafted, if incorrect. Finding another one might not be so easy...

Is there any way to find out what markets/models/years got which part numbers?

Installing this part concludes the mechanical jobs for the Tofudebeest conversion (except rebuilding the transfercase due to an excessive leak)! Then I tackle the cosmetics, accessories, etc. :bounce: :cool: :bounce:
 

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