Official 200 Series Chat and BS Thread (1 Viewer)
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No, it's meant to be a screenshot
You can only see it in brief glimpses.
Looks like Cartagena. Not really an offroad destination.
You should watch the rest of the episode. Most definitely there was a crapload of legit off roading. That was just a snapshot between the wheeling.
File this under mildly interesting: Warn is suing Superwinch for patent infringement. Probably most relevant for here is that they seem to have disassembled a Superwinch EXP 8,000 and an EXP 10,000. Could only post a couple of the images but the PDF has more.
Just for fun...
LC vs. Parking gate. Maybe he should have tried 4Lo?
(clip goes for 33 seconds)
LC vs. Parking gate. Maybe he should have tried 4Lo?
(clip goes for 33 seconds)
I was watching a video where the host was saying you need 600 mile range in North America to best use your overland rig. I cannot understand why this would be necessary.
Can anyone shed light on this?
Can anyone shed light on this?
Markuson
SILVER Star
My 1.5 cents:
First, there is no magic number, so that part is a little silly.
On the other hand, I think it just sounds weird because we tend to use highway miles to describe “range” even though we often wheel at lower speed and overall miles traveled. Ya, with 48 gallons I can do 600 highway miles without refueling. But that’s not where it counts.
Where it’s critical is when heavy wheeling days strung together with camping—without opportunities to refuel.
It just so happens (in my case) that about the same fuel I’d need to do 600 highway miles...is about what I burn in three days of 4Lo wheeling with lunch breaks, etc.
For me, that’s 40-48 gallons or so...so my main+24g sub gets me there.
Example of 4Lo wheeling day consumption from Cruise Moab last year:
-Three trail runs over three days in slowish, large groups of trucks in 4Lo.
-Each trail day (Poison Spider, Metal Masher and Steel Bender) burned about a 1/2 tank or a little more. So for all three, I would have gone through most of two tanks.
Now imagine 3 similar wheeling days, but in one looong route...without the benefit of returning to town each day and refueling. The same two full tanks I’d burn...could also take me around 600 miles of highway range.
But again, -Nothing magic about 600 miles and those three trail days cover nowhere near that.
It’s true though that a good number of trails in the US can mean 2 of 3 days of wheeling/camping without refueling. So in that sense, the 600 number sooooorta makes sense. But only sorta.
Bottom line—YMMV!!
Carry fuel you will realistically burn.
And...as always...that’s ONLY my 1.5 cents.
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Thanks Mark. I didn’t realize wheeling burnt so much fuel.
I agree, I don't know where he pulled that figure from, but I am sure that in his many years of experience that he felt that was the perfect number for him and the style of travel that he does.
I do worry about fuel range with these Toyota's when it comes to off-road travel and even travel in general. Our 4Runner only has 21gal of fuel and the LX barely has 24gal, neither is all that much when you consider even their standard fuel economy and it only gets worse when you start adding heavier mods, gear, extra passengers, and spare fuel and water. At least with my HD diesel trucks I was starting off with 30-40gal in the factory tank and I always had the option for an auxiliary tank as well. Should we keep this LX for the long haul, I will certainly be installing a LRA auxiliary tank to help with that range. The 4Runner still pulls 14mpg's on the beach and that's usually the harshest conditions I've ever seen in regards to off-road fuel economy. With the extra 8 gallons of fuel in the Rotopax I can still traverse 400+ miles off-road with a fuel economy of 14mpg's or better. I doubt that the LX will match those numbers, in fact I'm willing to bet that it won't even come close.
My personal fuel range number I try to maintain is 400. As long as I can cover 400 miles with the addition of extra fuel carried in cans or Rotopax, I feel confident in my ability to source more fuel before I find myself stranded. I usually carry two 4gal Rotopax with the 4Runner and I have always had two full gerry cans when I was traveling in the Power Wagon. Even with fuel range being a big concern in the Toyota SUV's, it was much more so a concern in the PW because off-road that truck with the thirsty 6.4L on 37's would average 7-10mpg's, that made for a range under 300 miles.
I do worry about fuel range with these Toyota's when it comes to off-road travel and even travel in general. Our 4Runner only has 21gal of fuel and the LX barely has 24gal, neither is all that much when you consider even their standard fuel economy and it only gets worse when you start adding heavier mods, gear, extra passengers, and spare fuel and water. At least with my HD diesel trucks I was starting off with 30-40gal in the factory tank and I always had the option for an auxiliary tank as well. Should we keep this LX for the long haul, I will certainly be installing a LRA auxiliary tank to help with that range. The 4Runner still pulls 14mpg's on the beach and that's usually the harshest conditions I've ever seen in regards to off-road fuel economy. With the extra 8 gallons of fuel in the Rotopax I can still traverse 400+ miles off-road with a fuel economy of 14mpg's or better. I doubt that the LX will match those numbers, in fact I'm willing to bet that it won't even come close.
My personal fuel range number I try to maintain is 400. As long as I can cover 400 miles with the addition of extra fuel carried in cans or Rotopax, I feel confident in my ability to source more fuel before I find myself stranded. I usually carry two 4gal Rotopax with the 4Runner and I have always had two full gerry cans when I was traveling in the Power Wagon. Even with fuel range being a big concern in the Toyota SUV's, it was much more so a concern in the PW because off-road that truck with the thirsty 6.4L on 37's would average 7-10mpg's, that made for a range under 300 miles.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
I’m gonna take a different approach to this.
If you research African travel, you keep hearing over and over, 1,000 Km range. 1,000 Km is 621 miles.
I’ve heard a few times before that people arbitrarily use those ranges over in North America.
Personally, and I don’t say this to be cocky, but there just aren’t too many places left I haven’t travelled to in the lower 48. I’ve gone it all with a 200 mile range. It’s gotten tight a few times, and now I’m pretty happy with about a 300 mile range. Add in Canada and Alaska, yea, 600 mile range sounds good. But what do I know about that, haven’t been able to go up there yet.
what routes in NA challenge a range of 350?
The guy’s commentary included North America. He is from Austrialia, where I get it.
Not that familiar with overland MPG’s. My main experience is motorcycle touring where range is limited to +/- 275 mile per tank. I have toured all over North America including a 17 day trip from Houston to Prudhoe Bay and back where to longest “gasless” run was from Fairbanks to Coldfoot (250 miles).
With all that said I would certainly prefer a 400 mile range - if for no other reason fewer gas stops.
Not that familiar with overland MPG’s. My main experience is motorcycle touring where range is limited to +/- 275 mile per tank. I have toured all over North America including a 17 day trip from Houston to Prudhoe Bay and back where to longest “gasless” run was from Fairbanks to Coldfoot (250 miles).
With all that said I would certainly prefer a 400 mile range - if for no other reason fewer gas stops.
Markuson
SILVER Star
Ya, I think the 600 number thing is the problem.
-My fuel capacity = 48 gallons (without jerry cans)
-Could I eek out 600 miles on paved highways only? Probably
-Can I cover 600 miles of wheeling on those same 48 gallons? No way.
-Do I need to cover 600 wheeling? Nope.
—But...
-Could I easily burn through 48 gallons wheeling/camping between fuel refills?
Easily.
So what is “range” anyway?
To me it’s really just enough fuel capacity
to get you through a longer trail over a few days of wheeling without refueling. There are plenty routes that might need 40+ gallons or more. The “600 mile” might mean 48 gallons in someone’s head, but that figure doesn’t really translate to offroad routes.
Hey @Taco2Cruiser what would you say is the most fuel you’ve carried in total on the longer routes that include full articulation wheeling along the way?
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Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
Rubicon Trail (a couple months before Jeep Jamboree when Pirates of the Rubicon have pulled a ton of boulders onto the trail to make it hard again): 19 gallon tank with a Toyota 4.0L V6, used 18 gallons for the 21 miles of trail. The run back to a gas station was... tight.
Death Valley: came in through the NV side. I wasn’t going to pay $7.25/gal so tried to make it through the “north exit” that I had mapped when I was stationed out there. It puts you into a pretty flexy trail, then dumps you out in a mining site. It was 190 miles total. 19 gallon tank with a Toyota 2.7L 4 cyl, man... when I got to Barstow, with using a 2 gallon can I brought, I put 18.8 gallons into that 19 gallon tank.
Johnson Valley: umm, just bring fuel cans, and go out have fun in the rocks and come back to your base camp. Too tough of terrain to carry lots of fuel.
West Texas into Mexico: on the trails I know outside of Big Bear, it will take you on out into some remote, beautiful areas. Those are also the coyotes’ trails, not the animals, the guys who smuggle illegals and drugs in. It’s a 154 miles to run one loop, did it with the 200. I had 8 gallons of spare fuel in Rotopaxs. Burned all main tank up (have the rotos for a backup), because of a combination of getting out and filling in washed out ditches/stopping to make sure I wasn’t bothering anyone’s “business”/ or just hiking up close hills to make sure I was still going the way I wanted. I sometimes cut the engine, but I try not to because I don’t like to risk restarts if I don’t have to. I totally will if I need to keep the truck parked for over 25 minutes or if fuel levels are getting tight.
I’ve got some more stories, but they were because of known fuel stations that ran out of fuel in west Texas. That can make it challenging sometimes.
Markuson
SILVER Star
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
Soon. New life style, new possibilities.Great stuff.
OK...now when are we gonna go beat on some of those trails?
I read somewhere, need to find it, that you can't get more than 140 miles from a "road" in NA. So figure you get to mile 139 just can't pass and need to turn around. You're at 280 back, plus some mileage to the gas station.
Edit: may have been 140 miles in US, not NA. But I can't find the source sooo.....
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How far back was the west Texas stuff? We are heading out there in four weeks. I'll be in the 4Runner this trip, two people and gear, only plan to take a two 4gal Rotopax with me. I had planned to top off the tank and fill the cans at the Alon in Terlingua. We are supposed to traverse 128 miles in the park over three days, so even if I were to average an appalling 7mpg's I would still be more than ok.
You will have no problem with gas in BBNP. There is the RV Park in Study Butte, panther junction and rio grande village...all have gas.
West middle and east - all covered.
West middle and east - all covered.
Markuson
SILVER Star
That’s true. They really don’t challenge it if just talking point A to point B.
For me, though, It’s more about keeping options open and being able to handle unexpected stuff that might burn more fuel than planned...or just the fun of optional exploring besides the planned route while in the boonies.
In Baja—wondering about distance to fuel was a consideration.l last year. Not a problem, because we were on a schedule and not really planning on major “exploring.” But one of these days @Mogwai and I are gonna go screw around in the Baja interior to see what we find, and you can bet we won’t be thinking just fuel for point A to point B since it will be hard to know what we’ll burn up poking around. Will we find a through route? Or have to backtrack? Extra fuel makes that less stressful.
Another recent example:
On the Mojave road trip, even after two short-ish days, one of our trucks was needing to think about diverting to i15 for fuel if were were to continue. It was so cold though, that iwe were all ready to bail anyway—but in other circumstances—it would be nice to not be forced back to civilization just for fuel. I mean...you can do that, but it’s great when the option to stay in the boonies is there.
Breakdowns:
Maybe you end up having to tow a buddy in 1st gear a good long way. Got enough extra fuel?
In winter:
You bust an axle or worse and need to run the heater for a couple days. -Not a ridiculous thought.
-I’ve pulled over in the dead of winter and slept in my truck where it was so cold that I ran the engine for hours while I slept. Nice knowing fuel wasn’t cutting it close.
Then there’s the
Personal Stupid Factor:(Personal testimony here)...like...you realize you left $5k of camera gear where you stopped on the trail way back somewhere and need the fuel to backtrack to it and still make it out. I don’t remember mileage, but it meant almost 2 extra hours round trip to retrieve it.
I had the fuel for that so all good, but would have sucked if I hadn’t left myself leeway.— In Alaska, if we hadn’t brought a bunch of extra fuel, we would have never felt like we were OK heading down random mining roads along the Dalton Highway way North.. On one such random detour, we ended up randomly meeting a mining family that are life-long friends 20 years later. Glad we had the fuel to allow that.
Anyway... Point A to point B travel style?
OK.
But truly exploring? Gimme the extra fuel (or “range” works too so guess.
