I have been running the Eatons for a bit over two years, installed by Zuk. I have never yet experienced any unlocking with forward/reverse changes and in fact make efforts to create such a condition. So far it simply remains locked.
OEM E-Lockers vs. Harrop (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Will Van
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
thank you for sharing your real life experience
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
Here’s the reality of it all and you’ll have to bear with me.
First off, 95% of all off-roaders will never be in a situation where they have a wheel off the ground and need to back out of that obstacle. So the “issue” in the video ( funny how well made that video is for just an average Joe, isn’t it. Makes me wonder who paid for that ) only applies to the extremely small percentage of us who wheel our rigs hard enough to end up “there”.
If you change direction at any other time, with all 4 tires planted on terra firma, you don’t even know that the lockers disengage and re-engage ( within less than 1/8 revolution of the tires ).
In theory, the change-of-direction-unlocking could pose an issue. But who’s ever gotten stuck because of this. Seriously. Let’s hear it! It just doesn’t happen.
PS: I have ARBs in my buggy and they’ve been in there for a long time. They’ve also had multiple issues. When we bring that rig back from TX next spring, I’m ripping the ARBs out and replacing them with Eaton lockers.
Georg @ Valley Hybrids @ Cruiser Brothers
First off, 95% of all off-roaders will never be in a situation where they have a wheel off the ground and need to back out of that obstacle. So the “issue” in the video ( funny how well made that video is for just an average Joe, isn’t it. Makes me wonder who paid for that ) only applies to the extremely small percentage of us who wheel our rigs hard enough to end up “there”.
If you change direction at any other time, with all 4 tires planted on terra firma, you don’t even know that the lockers disengage and re-engage ( within less than 1/8 revolution of the tires ).
In theory, the change-of-direction-unlocking could pose an issue. But who’s ever gotten stuck because of this. Seriously. Let’s hear it! It just doesn’t happen.
PS: I have ARBs in my buggy and they’ve been in there for a long time. They’ve also had multiple issues. When we bring that rig back from TX next spring, I’m ripping the ARBs out and replacing them with Eaton lockers.
Georg @ Valley Hybrids @ Cruiser Brothers
so my question for information sake is what about the mechanics if having one leg up in the air, causes the delay in engagement? it seems to be a very particular conference of circumstances.
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
I’d say two things:
1) You should engage your selectable lockers long before you end up in that situation.
2) The Eaton/Harrop will still engage, as will any other selectable locker. Just make sure ( no matter which locker you have ), that your wheels are stopped when you hit the button, then slowly apply power. It’ll engage and work as it should.
what happens when you don't start out slow or if you hit the button while in some sort of motion or load?
Last edited:
Same as any other locker - sudden shock loading and the associated risks of breaking something. The locker will still engage, and your pinion gears and axles won't like that. You shouldn't engage a locker in motion, no matter the brand or design.
oh, I thought the line of reasoning was explaining why the "issue" exists.
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
Hitting a switch while stationary isn't going to engage them on the spot though is it?
From watching Harrop's video, the mechanism has a locking dog ring that has 16 teeth. Therefore the locker needs up to 22.5⁰ difference in axle rotation across the diff centre to line up the dog teeth, PLUS how ever many degrees to ramp the pin into position to shift the locking plate.
( could be less than 22.5⁰ depending on position of dig teeth in relation to side gear teeth at the time, which is always gonna be random)
Am I missing something here?
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
I don’t think you’re “missing” anything.
Any locker ( Eaton, ARB, DETROIT, Lockrite, TJM ) requires a certain amount of axle rotation/differential before engagement.
And again, your selectable lockers should be engaged long before you have a wheel off the ground. That’s about as v basic as it gets when it comes to proper offroad driving.
ChaseTruck
--
Yeah well. In my experience, 80s people, being convinced about the superiority of the 80 in all things off-road, tend to not do that…
I am in the ‘lock first, ask questions later’ camp. Firmly so. I paid for those ARBs, might as well use them.
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
I hear ya loud
It’s a learning process for all of us ….
I’m not trying to come across as an ARB malcontent. They’re a great company, I like ( as well as sell & install lots of their items ), they typically offer top notch tech and parts support.
I’m just not a fan of the current generation of lockers for the 40/60/70/80-series. I think the design was a step in the wrong direction.
I hear ya and clear on both.
It’s a learning process for all of us ….
I’m not trying to come across as an ARB malcontent. They’re a great company, I like ( as well as sell & install lots of their items ), they typically offer top notch tech and parts support.
I’m just not a fan of the current generation of lockers for the 40/60/70/80-series. I think the design was a step in the wrong direction.
I'll have to agree with the point that the video attempting to show the "shortcomings" of harrops is an obnoxious scare tactic.. had to stop after the 3rd "LOKKA!!!!" Dude is an idiot.
Only scenarios I have questions with the lock pin retracting would be a clutch dump changing direction and wiggling back/forth in a crawler before launching it up an obstacle.
You might get it to possibly unlock and allow the spinning tire to get more inertia and lock abruptly shock loading that side risking the locking collar or axle shaft/hub. But that's the furthest catastrophizing I can think of and I understand the intended application wasn't crawler buggy
definitely not the diff just staying unlocked as shown in the dumb video.
Only scenarios I have questions with the lock pin retracting would be a clutch dump changing direction and wiggling back/forth in a crawler before launching it up an obstacle.
You might get it to possibly unlock and allow the spinning tire to get more inertia and lock abruptly shock loading that side risking the locking collar or axle shaft/hub. But that's the furthest catastrophizing I can think of and I understand the intended application wasn't crawler buggy
definitely not the diff just staying unlocked as shown in the dumb video.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Am I missing something?
In nearly every example of the "locker not engaging" in the video, the wheel was spinning through multiple revolutions before . The engineering design for these Harrop lockers would only have them be disengaged for the first partial rotation as they cam the pin from reverse to forward, but these clips are again all showing the wheel spinning multiple revolutions before coming to a stop triggering the shouting to lock the locker.
If I'm understanding this right, the video doesn't seem to be indicating the inherent design "issue" with the Harrop locker as the locker disengages briefly from reverse to drive or vice versa. Something else it going on?
In nearly every example of the "locker not engaging" in the video, the wheel was spinning through multiple revolutions before . The engineering design for these Harrop lockers would only have them be disengaged for the first partial rotation as they cam the pin from reverse to forward, but these clips are again all showing the wheel spinning multiple revolutions before coming to a stop triggering the shouting to lock the locker.
If I'm understanding this right, the video doesn't seem to be indicating the inherent design "issue" with the Harrop locker as the locker disengages briefly from reverse to drive or vice versa. Something else it going on?
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
Exactly. And I’m glad you pointed it out.
This also goes to show how STAGED the video truly is and that “somebody” decided it was a good idea to make sure you could clearly see the wheel spinning ( a whole lot more than 1/8 revolution ) as well as one of the “spotters” telling the driver to engage the locker while one tire is turning and the other isn’t.
Propaganda …….
