O R I O N

[orangefj45]

Georg, a question regarding the shift fork , are the ones AA supplies dimensionally the same as the OEM ones other than the clearancing for gear ?
specifically I am interested in if the area where fork contacts slider is built up and if in your opinion that would help push and keep it in gear? Do you have any of the retro fit kits for the early orions without the back cut gear in stock ?

hey john.
good question. ii rc, the forks are idnetical dimensionally except for the extra clearance for the low speed gear on the aa fork. the tips on the aa fork are also hardened. i would have to do some measuring to check on the pad thickness to see if there's any difference. i do not think so.
there are many reasons why an orion could or would pop out of gear. one of them is the synchro sleeve. if you build a case with a worn oem sleeve, then your chances of it popping out of gear are definetly increased. the oem sliders have been discontinued by toyota and are completely sold out. the last one i bought was $71 my cost.
however, i have been able to find aftermarket sliders, produced by the same company who makes the aftermarket shafts and gears; seamaster. they've been an oem vendor for many companies for years and years......
their cliseds sell for roughly $45 and i have them in stock at all times now. i have gotten into the habbit of using new sliders when building the orions in order to help prevent any issues with them popping out of gear.
while i do stock a lot of the periferral parts for the orions, i do not have the gears in stock. i get them from AA as i need them; only takes a day or two for them to get here. so i'd suggest you call aa and see if they still have any in stock. mathew at ext 523 is very helpful and knows quite a bit about the orions.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

ps: i am in no way speaking on AAs' behalf. my statements are merely for your info and conclusions drawn from personal experience. so please don't call the guys at AA and tell them "well ,georg said........."

 

[peesalot]

And I had the phone in my hand , JK..............

 

['74 UA FJ]

I'm still upset that my Orion pops out(easier now than when it was first built) when the issue was supposed to be fixed after the early cases. I put lots of time into the case making sure that everything was perfect with it. I haven't had time to tear it down in the last year and a half, but hopefully I will get to it when I do my spring over this year.

 

[peesalot]

what case #

If you have the back cut gear and used a new slider the only other issue could be a shift rail that is not lining the detents up with the position fork needs to be in just right. FWIW on my orion the shift rail was positioning the detents where they held the fork about 1.5mm off position.

 

[Poser]

Number 408 is going in soon--hopefully next weekend if I get finished rebuilding the transmission by then. I built the orion with a new mainshaft and hi/low shift collar. The stock thrust washers gave me the correct end play(.009). I'll edit this post when I get some miles and wheeling on it.

Edit 1: After the first ride, I am disappointed. It pops out of low range on steep downhills.

what case #

If you have the back cut gear and used a new slider the only other issue could be a shift rail that is not lining the detents up with the position fork needs to be in just right. FWIW on my orion the shift rail was positioning the detents where they held the fork about 1.5mm off position.

 

[Poser]

I'm still upset that my Orion pops out(easier now than when it was first built) when the issue was supposed to be fixed after the early cases. I put lots of time into the case making sure that everything was perfect with it. I haven't had time to tear it down in the last year and a half, but hopefully I will get to it when I do my spring over this year.

Disconnect the shift linkage to the transfer case and use an adjustable wrench or some other means to manipulate the range selector lever into low and operate your vehicle.


What style transfer case shifter are you currently running?

 

['74 UA FJ]

Disconnect the shift linkage to the transfer case and use an adjustable wrench or some other means to manipulate the range selector lever into low and operate your vehicle.


What style transfer case shifter are you currently running?

I will try disconnecting the shift linkage although I'm 99.9% sure that is not the problem.



The newer style that came on the transfer case with the ribbed front output.

 

[peesalot]

shifter, shift rail either way it twernt in gear all da way if so.

 

[Poser]

shifter, shift rail either way it twernt in gear all da way if so.

Not necessarily John.


There have been more than a few people out here that have posted up that there transfer case will not stay in gear, Orion or stock, only to discover that a shift boot is putting a bind on the linkage and preventing a positive shift/gear engagement, or that the linkage that they fabricated/installed is not fully shifting the case into gear or that they have broken engine mounts that are not keeping the drive train secure and allowing it to move, causing the shifter/linkage to have forces placed on it when the drive train moves, kicking the case out of gear.

 

[peesalot]

Ahhh, I get it now, thanks. I just take it for granted that people have sorted those issues out.

Along those lines and not discussed yet. Do you favor any certain shifter set -up for the orion or stock case for that matter ?

Do you feel the AA twin stick is any better than a stocker with modified gates ?

Have you seen and noted or not noted the effect of the shift collar on the shift fork pads ? I am interested in wether the pressure causing the gear popping is constant and wearing the pads at end of shift fork or more of a periodic contact which is causing marginal if any extra wear at that point ? It feels as if it is a periodic pop upon decceleration that causes it to pop on mine.

We have established that the shift collar to gear contact area takes no wear. Have you had a chance to see if the back cut gears are solving that issue and not contacting collar ? just curious?

 

['74 UA FJ]

Guys, tell me if my thinking is correct on this.

I plan on tearing my orion down and visually checking for wear on any areas that might be forcing it out of gear, then machining that area down a little bit to relieve the interference. How does that sound?

 

[Poser]

No I do not agree with your thinking on this.



You have not posted up answers to other questions concerning your issue from previous posts just a few days ago.


Further,

Do you have a back cut high speed gear currently in your case?

Did you install a new main shaft or reuse your old one?

Did you install a new shift collar or reuse your old one?

How did you measure your clearance between the thrust washer, high and low speed gears?

What is the condition of your engine mounts?

Are the bolts tight through the mounting brackets for the engine mounts?

Are the bolts tight that mount the brackets to the engine and rest of the drive line?

What style transfer case mount are you using with your V8 conversion?

Are those fasteners tight?

Are you running a shifter boot on the transfer case lever?

Have you removed that boot and watched the lever when it pops out of gear?

Have you remove the shift linkage from the equation and shifted the transfer case into low range? What was the result?

 

[Degnol]

DAYUM! That's a lot of homework!!!!

 

['74 UA FJ]

No I do not agree with your thinking on this.



You have not posted up answers to other questions concerning your issue from previous posts just a few days ago.


Further,

Do you have a back cut high speed gear currently in your case? Yes.

Did you install a new main shaft or reuse your old one? New

Did you install a new shift collar or reuse your old one? New

How did you measure your clearance between the thrust washer, high and low speed gears? Feeler gauge, iirc.

What is the condition of your engine mounts? Perfect. 350 w/ mark's of australia adapter.

Are the bolts tight through the mounting brackets for the engine mounts? Yes.

Are the bolts tight that mount the brackets to the engine and rest of the drive line? Yes.

What style transfer case mount are you using with your V8 conversion? Bolted to original h42 trans.

Are those fasteners tight? Yes

Are you running a shifter boot on the transfer case lever? Yes, it's worn out and offers zero resistance to lever movement.

Have you removed that boot and watched the lever when it pops out of gear? Yes, the lever simply pops into the neutral position.

Have you remove the shift linkage from the equation and shifted the transfer case into low range? What was the result? No I haven't. I work all day and didn't get a chance yesterday evening. I will try that asap, but as I said, I am 99.9% sure the linkage is not the issue here.

Answers are in red. It seems that it is getting easier to pop out of low with increasing miles on the case. Right after I built it, it would only pop out of low with the trans in 1st gear on steep downhills under engine braking in 4wd. Then it popped out with the trans in 2nd gear. Then 3rd gear. Now 4th gear and even when I am in 2wd low.

 

[calstyl2]

Called AA for advice?

 

['74 UA FJ]

Called AA for advice?

I called them long ago. Guy(don't have his name) told me he'd get back to me. He never did. The issue slipped to the back burner as I had a lot of other things going on at the time. Basically, they don't know what the problem is since they thought the "new" backcut gear and new parts would fix the issue.

I should have gone with a rockbox and rebuilt my stock case.

 

[trona]

Last time i was in there I noticed that it was taking a lot of shims to obtain preload this caused the output shaft to be quite forward. I am not sure if my front nose cone was worn or stretched but the end result was that the shift collar had less purchase on the high speed gear. I ended up placing at least half the shims in front of the front bearing race bringing the output shaft back for better purchase. Just some thoughts

 

[orangefj45]

I called them long ago. Guy(don't have his name) told me he'd get back to me. He never did. The issue slipped to the back burner as I had a lot of other things going on at the time. Basically, they don't know what the problem is since they thought the "new" backcut gear and new parts would fix the issue.

I should have gone with a rockbox and rebuilt my stock case.

talk to vic or mathew at aa, they will handle the issue properly.

the rokbox had issues with the inputs breaking and has been shelfed due to low sales......

i bet your fork is worn quite a bit.

georg

 

[orangefj45]

Last time i was in there I noticed that it was taking a lot of shims to obtain preload this caused the output shaft to be quite forward. I am not sure if my front nose cone was worn or stretched but the end result was that the shift collar had less purchase on the high speed gear. I ended up placing at least half the shims in front of the front bearing race bringing the output shaft back for better purchase. Just some thoughts

i've had to do the smae thing a couple of times and should have mentioned it earlier.
it's important to check that the bearing race in the nose cone fits snug and the previous race did not spin in the cone. otherwise the new cone can and will "float" in the nose cone which obviously can cause issues......

 

[peesalot]

I think the issue Trona has shared is the exact thing that needs to be fiddled with in my case (#100)