Non-traditional work?

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little_joe

little_joe

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I start a new job Monday, but it's made me realize how much I'm starting to loathe technology and wish to do something else.

For purposes of discussion, I define non-traditional work as positions not working for government/public institutions; large corporations; or really any place that offers the customary - time away, savings/401k, health care.

For those in non-traditional roles, what consumes you? what do you worry about? and what do you give thanks for every day?

How do you plan for post-work years, how/where do you get health coverage, do you get the time away you need? (or do you even need time away?)

I've been in IT since late '91. It has been lucrative and provided us a good life, and I've managed to save a lot. It is, however and imnsho, an empty and slave life - always oncall, rarely able to truly get away, etc. I expect to have another 7-10 years at most working in IT, but would rather take a pay cut and do something enjoyable - I have a few ideas, but the practicalities of health care, income, savings scare me.

Educate me, please.
 
A lot depends upon what you really want to do. There is a definite void in IT type work for small to mid-sized businesses. I have seen it first hand. For example, I am working for a $30M manufacturing company where IT (all of it from strategic level to daily troubleshooting) is someone’s second or third job.

I believe there is a decent market and decent money to be made contracting with companies like this. For example, we could easily consume 2-3 days a week of time now and for 6-8 months then level out at 1 to 1 1/2 days a week moving forward. Something like a fractional CIO.

From doing some self employed consulting in my past, you need to plan on an hourly rate of about 2x your gross hourly rate now. As self employed, you get to have a larger tax burden and you get to cover 100% of insurance and retirement savings.
 
I have been self employed most of my life. My wife is also self employed. We buy our own medical insurance. Working for yourself is not for everyone, it takes a lot more time than you may think. Everyone I know that is self employed, it is more than a job, it is a life style.

What you chose to make a living is wide open. I have found that creating a niche and then filling it has worked best for me throughout my life. My problem is that I've not figured out how to build a business that once my input and passion is removed is still a salable entity.

If you are not already good with taxes I suggest that you either learn or find a good accountant. By good I mean creative. The tax code is very broad and there are all kinds of things that can be viewed as a deduction. Heather and I have three companies and basically, only one makes any money a year and they are rotated as to which is making money. Between the three we write of almost our entire life. Sometimes it is not just all about what you make, much of the time, how much you keep is just as important.

Shop security, all food and vet attention deducted :)

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Office and pasture security

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I know what you mean Joe. The folks I work with love computers and technology. I like the IT field and I'm good at it but it certainly isn't my passion. I could talk all day long about mountain biking, land cruisers, landscaping, photography, and home improvements. All of those skills and subjects are easy to discuss and come naturally to me but IT is something I have to do. Every once in a while I get brief enjoyment in learning a new skill or automating a process at work however most of the time it's plugging away or fixing someone else's mistake.

The way I see it I'm stuck. I'm paid well, get vacation, and have a flexible schedule and I can't give that up for me or my family. On the other hand, I am reevaluating my current position and will be looking for something different to get that brief spark back I used to have when I first started working with computers.

I am hitting the books again and studying for RHCE, Ansible, and AWS. I will not be investing any more education or certs for my current role in storage administration.
 
Joe I’m pretty much in the exact opposite scenario than you. I decided when I was 22 that I wanted to work on a golf course. Not because the pay was good but because I really liked being outside and working hard and it provided a sense of fulfillment. So I got my degree in Turf and Horticulture and have been at the same course now for almost 16 years. I have stayed there so long because the company i work for is non profit so our benefits are amazing compared to typical golf course work. We get 31 days off a year, 401k with a match with immediate vesting. So I really do like my job but, now I wish I had chosen a profession that was more lucrative and less taxing on me physically.

During the summer months I come home everyday absolutely cooked and wore out. When I get home Ashley has stuff she needs help with and the boys wanna play and I’m totally spent and useless to them all. Most people that do office work are usually productive at home and with their kids because they’ve been cooped up in an office all day. Not me, I wanna retreat to the AC rest. When I was single it was fine to do that but now I can’t do that without letting people down.

I said all that to say this, I went with a job that I loved and I feel fulfilled doing and for years it worked. Now, I wish I had went into a more traditional line of work.
 
I was once told by our accountant that I should think about not working for the next tax year as we were estimated to be into the next bracket by approximately my salary that year. That has nothing to do with why I don't have a current full time job right now, and I'm sure he would have given us options had we asked, but it did make me realize how good I had it by having a wife who made a great corporate living and me doing what I loved for a pretty decent wage. I've been lucky to have her insurance (and no dependents) and income to allow mine to be savings or spending as we see fit without using hers as spending. Of course, I'm now even more 'self employed' than I have been for the last 17 years and I get more fearful every time I ponder my future place in the workforce.

As some of you know, doing what I loved caused me to hate what I spent my life on and literally caused life threatening damage of physical and mental types. I might not ever return to a full on love of music/entertainment but I'll be fine if it's something else that kills me. So here I am at 45 saying goodbye to the last 30 years of my life while wondering what to do next. Part of me now wishes to keep personal life from paying life, so a mindless cube-dweller job that has no involvement from my happy side might be my next step, but I honestly don't know how I could handle a time card schedule. That said, I DO have my own red stapler; please don't borrow it. In all seriousness, I fear doing something I love for the possibility of killing that love, as I did with music and large part of myself. There, I said it. Now you all know.

I don't know how to answer your questions, Joe. I've been in my own bubble for too long and can't really remember how the corporate world makes people feel about themselves. You have a few years on me...please keep me posted, jedi master.
 
sometimes it just takes a change of scenery, sometimes i think i just want to come in, put in my 8 hours and do what i want. But i cant work that way. My current job issues was pretty much a blessing, i can share more when i get an offer, but im actually excited about the new opportunity. I did a lot of soul searching and read some articles and books about the career restart and whatnot. Pretty much all of them said if you are working somewhere for 6-8 years, its time to move on. I can understand that. I missed so much tech change in my current position (13 years), and the only way i would be exposed to it would have been shifting jobs. I joke with my wife that i have 15 years, then ill go work IT for the state. 8-5 and old tech, expectations are low etc etc. Or opening up a small buisness, one of my coworkers has this plan to open a pie shop when he gets close to retirement. Hope that helps.
 
Interesting stories and perspectives, thank you guys. I guess I should also mention we have no dependents and we're single income (mine).

Really shifting towards hanging in there with IT for a few more years until I truly don't have to work. Sadly, I've been unable to identify any other saleable skills or something I'm both passionate and knowledgeable enough about to do...
 
There is something Joe, you just have to look bit harder.

I went to school for auto mechanics, auto body, welding with full intent of being a mechanic. My hobby was always wood working, had a nice little shop in my mother's basement from age 14.

-Grass cutting business (10-15 lawns a week)
-Worked for a company that built trash trucks, learned more there than in school
-Small contractor, kitchens, baths, decks etc myself and a couple helpers
-Small builder, residential housing, 24 employees
-Radio controlled helicopter company, also built custom pattern RC airplanes on contract (killer money)
-Contractor again
-A little time diving, spearfishing guide I did this for a pal when he needed an extra hand
-Architect, I did not get a degree, I taught myself after years building houses, had a structural engineer review and stamp my plans
-Fabricator, bumpers roll bars etc
-What I am doing now

By far, the biggest limiting factor in all of it stares at you from the mirror. I believe that entrepreneurial action is driven by a state of mind. By being open to paths that may not be the "norm". I can also tell you that making your hobby into a job often kills the hobby aspect of it. I remember well days going to the flying field with several helicopters. My buddies were all there to play and BS, I was there to test various products etc, it became work.

Same applies to building LCs, it's work. I hear all the time that people wish they could do what I do, be careful what you wish for is the best i can say.
 
little_joe said:
Interesting stories and perspectives, thank you guys. I guess I should also mention we have no dependents and we're single income (mine).

Really shifting towards hanging in there with IT for a few more years until I truly don't have to work. Sadly, I've been unable to identify any other saleable skills or something I'm both passionate and knowledgeable enough about to do...
Click to expand...

Maybe take some time off and a take an epic road trip. Do some thinking and soul searching my friend.
 
I have a unique perspective where I've done both. Right out of grad school, I took a job in public accounting doing risk consulting work, eventually specializing in IT risk and controls (I'm the guy that all the IT ops folks hate - I care more about it being done right then it actually working). I thought I was passionate about the work, but turns out it was just me growing up and no longer relying on my parents for support - i.e. being an adult and productive member of society.

After 8 years of traveling / working 60 hour weeks, a year break for cancer and coping with it in a less then healthy way...I was DONE. So burnt out that I straight quit and didn't do s*** for 8 months, working to get my head back where it needed to be. Out of the blue, my uncle called and asked if I was interested in working with him (more accurately, come to find out...being his physical labor). He is a lifelong contractor who specializes in remodels, additions, etc. Very good but very expensive. I am handy by nature but knew much of nothing when it comes to how to build something the correct way. What I learned was that I really really enjoyed the work and for many reasons. 1) I was working outdoors and my work attire was based on the weather not to fit in with the office culture, 2) I came home physically exhausted vs. mentally spent (I felt healthier overall) 3) was afforded the luxury of playing golf 2-4 times a week (my uncle, like most contractors had a habit of not working a full 40) and 4) had the pleasure of instant gratification (or disappointment) - I cut a board I instantly see the work product.

The downsides (there were many) included, significantly modifying my lifestyle (going from ~80k year to 10 bucs an hour is major) to live within my means. Luckily, I have a very supportive spouse and her employer (Duke) has great healthcare, etc. I honestly had zero intention of ever doing anything different...even after working for a year and getting a 2.50 raise...I wasn't making s***, lol!

Then one day out the blue (guess karma of some sort) I get a call from a buddy from my public accounting days asking if I would be interested in doing some part time work (related to my previous field of expertise)...was offered 40 bucs a hour so it was tough to say no. I was hesitant getting back into the game (I know gangster right?) but it was only temporary...

After a couple months, I was surprised how much I enjoyed doing what was very similar to what I had previously grown to hate - Risk based technology consulting. The similarities ended at what I was doing as the environment was much different (no travel, 8-5 work day, etc.). I didn't love or hate what I was doing, but the folks I was doing it with made it enjoyable. Team atmosphere, collaboration, flexibility, you name it. I eventually transitioned to full time and after 5.5 years, I've been generously rewarded for my efforts, but it isn't the only thing that keeps me coming back. While the team is not the same, the feeling is the same, partly b/c I run the team and choose members that operate in a similar fashion - we all fit.

I do now come home mentally tired, and sometimes exhausted, but I don't dread going back the next day. Am I passionate about what I do at work, meh, I don't hate it and it keeps my attention. I never dreamed of being a Data Privacy Officer at an Accounting based membership organization and being responsible for the security and privacy of a company with ~2k employees, hubs in Durham, London and Kuala Lumpur and offices spread-out over 30 other countries...but I am.

What I've come to learn about myself is that I don't need a job/career that I'm so passionate about that makes me who I am, but one that supports the lifestyle I want to live (which is to spend money on land cruisers and tools and essentially buy what I want when I want it) and I enjoy the job enough that it keeps me coming back the next day without the dread. This could all change and I'll then look for another role and adjust my lifestyle accordingly. My job doesn't need to make me happy, but definitely should not keep me from being happy.
 
S4Cruiser said:
What I've come to learn about myself is that I don't need a job/career that I'm so passionate about that makes me who I am, but one that supports the lifestyle I want to live (which is to spend money on land cruisers and tools and essentially buy what I want when I want it) and I enjoy the job enough that it keeps me coming back the next day without the dread. This could all change and I'll then look for another role and adjust my lifestyle accordingly. My job doesn't need to make me happy, but definitely should not keep me from being happy.
Click to expand...

^^^ I've learned this about myself over the past two years.

Graduated 2011 with low six-figures debt in student loans, so I'm stuck in IT for a long while. I started at Cisco and loved my job. 8-5, good pay, good coworkers, learning lots, tons of fun. Changed job roles 2.5 years in for 'greener pastures' and that job made me hate my life for a few years. It affected everything. I couldn't accrue any time off because whenever I earned a day, I'd take a friday just to get away from the misery.

Once I realized what was going on, I changed job roles again and have been living by what Jon says in the quote above. I enjoy my job, but it's not my passion. It supports my lifestyle and most days I have plenty of energy to come home and work in the garage for a few hours.
 
All my other hobbies are my release from the day to day activities of work.
 
I think its all about finding that balance between something you love or can put up with and leave it all at the office and pay to allow you to comfortably live your life. I'm still in that hunt but almost at it.
My working career up until now has just been a story of bad luck, bad timing and just getting screwed... and not the good kind ;)

I worked a terrible management job for McCarthy Tire, which pretty much paid me $7 an hour after I took out my total hours and worked it into my salary. It was very emotionally and physically draining (although I like @S4Cruiser liked the physical part of the job) but after I while I was starting to turn into an alcoholic. I kept with it after getting my degree because upper management in PA made all kinds of promises now that I had a business degree. So I believed them and kept at it for another year completely turning my shop/warehouse around all the while putting in 70-80 hours most weeks. And then I got laid of for really no reason at all.... the hatchet man gave me all types of reasons that I shot down and disproved until I realized that I was gone no matter what and left and basically the thanks I was getting for all that work for no pay was the fact that I would be able to draw unemployment.

I think that was a blessing and a curse at the same time. A blessing because I have a stupid loyalty to my employers even if it a bad job... it takes a lot for me to actually quit a job and normally the only times I have quit a job is because i've moved away. So I may still be at that job that I hated and was turning me into a giant grump and not a nice person to be around if that didn't happen.
A curse because now we were down to one tiny teachers salary (which in NC isn't much) to keep us afloat. Thankfully our mortgage was very cheap due to it being a foreclosure and buying during the start of the downturn. Finding a job was pretty much an impossibility for me at my skill set in Charlotte when the unemployment rate was super high. I couldn't get a management job because I didn't have 10+ years experience like all others applying and I couldn't get grunt jobs because I was too experienced.
So I decided to work for myself and do labor jobs/handyman jobs/ pressure washing jobs. But at the same time there were tons of people with that idea also.
So we got through with me doing any labor job I could find online. Josh and John Vee also helped by getting me set up. Josh with his friend for 8 months and John I helped with gigs when he needed and extra hand. I'm forever in their debts for that.
I did finally get a regular job again. Not highly paid but an office manager/dispatcher job at safelite. It paid the bills and allowed me the money to fly around the country to try and find a job in appraising. Found one, moved to seattle. Still not making a killing but will hopefully when I get fully licensed in 2 years. But the golden lining is despite the huge cost of living increase here we are both very happy because we both love our jobs (first time for me in my professional career I generally love going to work everyday) and while i'm still not down to 40 a week we do have time and some money to enjoy ourselves and the outdoors again). Only thing I would change if I could is being able to get outside more.

There are those rare ones that do manage to work for themselves and turn their passions into a well paid job. At the same time I know those that have done it and turn to loose their passion for it due to doing it every day and having experiences with customers that sour them on it. One of my buddies opened a hot rod shop back home because that was his passion. These days he still does it and is damn good at it but he really doesn't live that life outside of work anymore.
I worry that that would be me also. I entrench myself in my passions out side of work but it seems I tire of that life after a while. I'm not really in the muscle car scene anymore. In truth my enthusiasm for cruisers has also started to wain also.
I mention that @little_joe just to think about if you are looking to put your passions as your job. It can work for some but not for others career changes can be tricky, great or terrible or a combination of all three.

I prefer to do like @lumbee1 and keep my hobbies as an escape from daily work life.
 
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So much good info!


I am currently "living the dream" of doing both the 60-hour corporate job (Computer Company) and the non-traditional job (B&B and Folk Art Gallery). Wife and I have ran a small business of some sort for 12+ years now, but I am REALLY involved with this one, now.

If you count my time doing things like mowing the B&B lawn as part of my non-traditional job, I work a lot of hours.

So I decided to figure this up:

Corporate Job (easy week): 52 hours
B&B/Gallery (easy week, no home improvements): 34 hours

If you layer in a week like last week where we had guests all week, the outdoor stuff like mowing that I would do anyway if I didn't live at my business, doing finance/accounting stuff for both personal and business, the B&B jumps to about 40+ hours per week.

Given we sleep 7 hours a night, which we don't, but we should, we are working 80% of our waking hours.​

My free time is caught on here for the most part :)


All that said, I wouldn't trade any of it.
  • My corporate job seems better as I get to "get away" from the house and do a job that doesn't seem as bad as it used to.
  • We can block out the house from time to time and take a real vacation from both jobs, etc.
  • We are busy all weekend, but we meet great people and make money hosting them
  • Financially, living in your house and having it be your business is a nice combo with a full time job. You can literally "throttle" how much you want to lose each year based on how much you want to improve or pay on your house/car/property/assets, etc.

The down side, is I have little time for the LX/Tundra and club events. :( I also now have no real place to work on the trucks.

I have about 4 hours of free time each weekend.


We hope to do this until we can be totally debt free, own a 2nd very small home with a garage, and then drop the corporate job and focus in on the B&B in a quasi-retirement mode.

Hopefully we can make it that long - - 4 months down - - 9.66 years to go LOL :)

Edit: Vacations all revolve around "business travel" buying art from partners - so . another positive financially, but a negative in the "freedom" catagory.
 
Thank you all, seriously - the input, stories, personal experiences are awesome.

For me, what I forgot and what this thread reminded me of, is we need not be defined by what we do. Rather, what we do should contribute to what we are passionate about, which is part of what defines us. In my case specifically, working in technology is a paycheck so that I can do the things I want to do; but my identity is not a tech worker.

For anyone else reading this, there's some serious wisdom and experiences to mull here; and please contribute!
 
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