newbee trunnion bearing question

[loquito]

I was hoping some of you can share what/how you did your trunnion bearings. I have read the write ups for the Birf job, its just the trunnion bearings that I can not picture.
The FSM has the special tool to do the trunnions, but no write up mentions using the tool.
What have you guys done.
The rest seems very straight forward.
Thanks
Steven





Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 522



[Oh, and I never thought you were a newb because of your post count or anything it said by your username, I know you are a newb to 80 series Land Cruisers because of the content of your posts.]

__________________
Ryan Loehr
95 FZJ80 + Some Stuff


Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. _Theodore Geisel

I thought this was funny, do we really stick out that much?

 

[TX_TLC]

They are a little hard to picture but I will give it a shot. AS I UNDERSTAND IT....and I don't have my FSM to go to...but...I believe...The trunnion bearings are what aid the motion of moving the "front end" when the steering wheel is turned left or right. They are mounted horizontally...one on the top (smaller of the cone shaped facing down) and one on the bottom (smaller end facing up) on the "bell housing" or inner knuckle.

If you replace them, you need to replace the races as well. In both my experiences, with the correct tools, I didn't have as hard of time as others have had. The upper race you beat up from the bottom and out...this is the more difficult of the two. The lower one you beat/pound from the top of it and out the bottom of the inner knuckle.

On reassembly the after the races are in, the upper bearing will sit there for you, the lower one is more tricky. How I did it was place it inside the knuckle and as I put the knuckle back on, slip the lower side in first, getting that bearing in the race then seating the upper portion. Hope that makes sense...and if doesn't now, it will once you take it all apart! I know it did for me...

 

[Koffer]

I was hoping some of you can share what/how you did your trunnion bearings. I have read the write ups for the Birf job, its just the trunnion bearings that I can not picture.
The FSM has the special tool to do the trunnions, but no write up mentions using the tool.
What have you guys done.
The rest seems very straight forward.
Thanks
Steven

I just hammer the old races out and hammer in the new ones and use the old shims (or new ones that are the same size) . Out of all the stuff in the job the bearings and races are most likely the most precise made thing you'll be taking out and putting in . Just get a fish scale and check to see if its in the window when done . the only time Ive been too tight was when I put too much grease in everything but just moving the knuckle back and forth a bunch of times let the grease ooz out and the #s fell into the window .

 

[Romer]

Steven,
These are the Bearings that come one on the top and one on the bottom of each Knuckle. When you buy the kit from C-Dan, you will get the new bearing and race for it as a set. You need to get the old one out. Looking at the knuckle, if you didn't know better you might think nothing else has to come out. If you feel the inside of the race you will find two indentations 180 deg apart. This indentation is part of the knuckle and not the race. I used a screw driver drop down from the top to knock out the bottom race, switching between the two indents. Then repeat from the bottom. Mark Brodis suggested using a long socket extension. In fact, here is a link to Brodis's web site, scrolling down through the photos you will see the one I am talking about.

http://www.colorado4x4.net/tech/knuckle_rebuild/knuckle_rebuild.html

Mark's photo's and advice helped me when I did my axle job.

BTW- You replace the trunioun bearings but not the inner and outre bearings unless they are bad. The inner and outer bearings are hundreds of $$ by them selves. Vs the kit with everything including trunion bearings is $200 from CDAN

 

[TX_TLC]

The inner and outer bearings are hundreds of $$ by them selves. Vs the kit with everything including trunion bearings is $200 from CDAN

What inner and outer bearings are these that cost hundreds of dollars?

 

[Romer]

The ones on either side of the hub (Rotor plate). Thats what they are called in the FSM. When I was doing the axle job I was thinking while I am there maybe I should change those bearings. Called the local dealer and it was $248 (I know CDAN could have gotten them cheaper). Brodis and Ige told me they re-use those bearings and since CDAN didn't bring it up when he sent me the kit, I reused them.

 

[mabrodis]

Ken is correct, normally you reuse the wheel bearings (called inner/outer bearings in the FSM). In the FSM it says they are non-reusable, but most do not follow that. The reason you can easily reuse them is you apply the torque to the bearings with the giant 54mm hubnut. Therefore if the bearing set had worn a bit, and the bearing was riding slightly deeper in the race that before, that doesn't matter, since you are the one torquing it, so you just torque it till it gives the correct preload (how hard it is to turn the hub).

You can not easily do this same procedure with the knuckle/king-pin/trunion (all names they are known by), to adjust the bearing preload on the trunion bearings you have to use different shims under the top/bottom bolted on plates on the knuckle. Normally you do not mess with adjusting the preload on the knuckle, since most do not have any extra shims around anyway. If you had the shims, it would be possible to measure the preload and then shim accordingly, however, it's far easier to just put in factory new bearings which work perfect with the shims that are there. (I have heard from serveral people that the shims in there now were to correct manufacturing differences with the housing, so with a brand new bearing that was the correct shim to use (and might vary side-to-side) therefore if you put in a new bearing set (bearing and race) then the shim that is in there should give the correct preload, just like at the factory).

So that's why the trunion bearings are usually replaced, and also they take major amounts of abuse, and they are not a large bearing...so basically the wheel bearing is adjustable by you so you get the preload correct even it is worn some (and debateable whether they even wear at all if done at correct invervals), but the trunion bearings you can not easily adjust the bearing preload on...

Good Luck..it's alot easier the 2nd time around, and easier if you have someone to talk to, BS with, etc..

As far as how I did the trunion bearings, look at the link Romer posted, it's to my writeup, I had great luck with a 6" long 3/8" extention, but that extention had a dimple in the end I think, so it wasn't just round, therefore it kind held onto the edge of the race, not all extentions are like that. I know Ken tried and couldn't get that to work with his...anything would work, and you are only hitting on the race, which you're throwing away anyway, so whatever works, just beat away.

 

[cruiserdan]

Called the local dealer and it was $248 (I know CDAN could have gotten them cheaper)

That is WAY out of line for wheel bearings. A set of Koyos LISTS for less than 200 bucks and a SET of Timkins, in Toyota boxes, nets at less than 115 bucks.

Aftermarket Timkins can be had for even less..........

 

[Romer]

Is that for both sides 4 bearings in a set?

I was planning on reusing mine, otherwise I would have bought them from you. I was just curious the day I had it torn down, so I called the nearby Toyota Dealer

 

[Lars]

The brass drift set from Sears seems like it was made for this job. Fits perfectly.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

The brass drift set from Sears seems like it was made for this job. Fits perfectly.

Agreed, the little one is perfect for knocking out the races. It fits the indentations in the ball perfectly.

Ary

 

[Rookie2]

Is that for both sides 4 bearings in a set?

I was planning on reusing mine, otherwise I would have bought them from you. I was just curious the day I had it torn down, so I called the nearby Toyota Dealer

When I did my front last year, I got the Timkins wheel bearings (all four bearing and races) from Autozone for $52. Last I check, I believe they've jacked there prices some.

I'm getting ready to do my rear axle service, and thinking I'lll just clean and repack them this time around. What exactly would one be looking for when assessing whether the bearings need to be replaced? Obviously wear, but any other tell-tell signs?

Thanks,
Rookie2

 

[Beowulf]

What exactly would one be looking for when assessing whether the bearings need to be replaced? Obviously wear, but any other tell-tell signs?

That's a good question and I would like answers from others. I look for flat spots on the rollers, gouges in the race, bent cage.... you know, the obvious things. Discoloration is supposed to be an indication of overheating. Getting a good definition of "discoloration" is where my skills fall short.

-B-

 

[cruiserdan]

That's a good question and I would like answers from others. I look for flat spots on the rollers, gouges in the race, bent cage.... you know, the obvious things. Discoloration is supposed to be an indication of overheating. Getting a good definition of "discoloration" is where my skills fall short.

-B-

Or, if you send one flying accross the shop...............

 

[cruiserdan]

Is that for both sides 4 bearings in a set?

I was planning on reusing mine, otherwise I would have bought them from you. I was just curious the day I had it torn down, so I called the nearby Toyota Dealer

All 4....

 

[landtank]

As for coloring, I usually look for a blueing of the metal. The hard part is evaluating the race. I've seen problems with the race and the bearings and cage seem fine. The outter race is where I've seen flat spots and a wavy wear patterns while the bearings I've seen nicks in them.

If you are even just a little concerned about the race drive it out and get a good look at it. You should be able to reuse it if it checks out ok.

 

[e9999]

I'd say for $52, once every 5-10 years, 10 hours into a 2 day job, replace the dang things....

 

[Curran]

Alright Ken and Mark, your avitars look way too similar. I was confused about who's post was who's.
OK, continue discussing bearing prices.....

 

[mabrodis]

Alright Ken and Mark, your avitars look way too similar. I was confused about who's post was who's.
OK, continue discussing bearing prices.....

What are you talking about?

Totally different! Mine is a '81 with a bikini-top and spring-over and 35's, Ken's is a '77 with a soft-top and some skinny-ass tires..

(Yeah they look alike, infact I've scrolled down to my posts before, read them and like WTF, I didn't write that...then realize it wasn't my post... )

 

[Romer]

Alright Ken and Mark, your avitars look way too similar. I was confused about who's post was who's.

Umm, what Mark said!