New LX-470 Fiasco - Need To Vent

[cary]

2 comments:

I think you're foolish to not at leat SEE A LAWLEY and have the LAWYER CALL THE GM. You're out a couple of hundred bucks and I know you will end up with a new LX. Yes, it's a hassle however you got screwed, you're getting screwed (by the GM's comments) and it's up to YOU to correct it. Sounds harsh but we're talking a boatload of money here.

How sure about that are you? Are you willing to pay his attorney's fees when the dealer and manufacture say sorry, but we are not repurchasing the vehicle?

As I said above, before dolling out legal advice, at least have an idea what the law is. I represent several car dealers. If I received a letter from an attorney in a matter like this, I would advise the client that there is no legal reason in California for them to repurchase the vehicle. I doubt that MA law is significantly different in this regard.

 

[Brentbba]

a990dna - that's true here in the Republic of Kalifornia, but not other states perhaps.

 

[cary]

Plus, its past the 72 hour mark to cancel the deal.

Are you aware that in most states there is no right to recission for automobiles? California is one of those states.

 

[jjbodean1970]

I'm loving all the legal advice that consists of nothing but speculation and old wives tales. A few points:

1) You guys are getting way to bent out of shape about the rear bumper. Apparently many of you are not aware that new vehicles are damaged and repaired all the time during transient. In fact most states don't require that this damage and repair be disclosed. For the states that do (NY is one), they require that the damage exceed a certain dollar value, often $1000-2000, or in other cases 10% of the value of the vehicle.

2) Under the laws of most states, the dealer is not required to replace the vehicle, they are required to make him whole. In the case of the bumper, it is repairing it properly and any diminished value. The wiring harness is the same thing.

3) Lemon laws have no place in this discussion. This is not a defective vehicle, it is one that was damaged by a dealer.

4) The dealer has stepped up to the plate pretty well. The only other thing I would suggest asking them is to guarantee in writing that for as long as you own the vehicle, should there be any problems that are directly attributable to the botched installation of the security device, the will pay for the repairs. If they are confident the wiring was repaired properly, this shouldn't be to hard for them as they will likely never have to cover anything.

cary, i agree with you 100%.

lemon law does not apply in this case.

most of the time when appraising a vehicle, unless there is NOTICEABLE difference in paint finish, most dealers dont care about repainted bumper covers for purposes of depreciation. they're plastic. get over it.

there is in most states no 72 hour right of recision, taking the vehicle back, cooling off period, etc. thats if the kirby vacuum cleaner guy sells you a vaccum at your house. if you went to the dealership and conducted business there, you own the vehicle unless the dealer decides otherwise.

i think GR is getting a heck of a deal out of this. he should feel satisfied. cheers to him for not taking the low road.

jeff

 

[a990dna]

Are you aware that in most states there is no right to recission for automobiles? California is one of those states.

Cary,
Yes I am aware. I'm not an attorney but there is also a 72-hour law to cancel a contract... as long as you don't take delivery of the vehicle, I believe you can exercise your rights. I'm sure it can get a little hairy if you buy a vehicle and don't take delivery for a week or so.

I didn't take delivery when I bought my '05 Cruiser knowing something could possibly happen installing the hitch. The Fleet Manager didn't like the idea I wouldn't drive it off the lot and bring it back before installation. He got over it because he wanted to sell the vehicle... its was my insurance policy in case they screwed something up.

In 1976, I bought a new Ford PU 4x4 and within the first two hours of ownership the transmission stopped shifting from 2>3. I drove it back to the lot and gave them the keys and said its yours... they threatened me with a lawsuit, I told them go ahead.

More than likely they never transferred title... didn't have time in those days with snail mail.

I never heard back from them. Maybe I got lucky.. or maybe I had the advantage. All they had was a check for a small down payment with the balance due within ten days. I cancelled the check.

Life is a chess game... I won that round.

Could I have been sued? Probably. What would a jury say who's is at fault?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Gents, this is the fundamental problem, delivery has been taken and the title sent to the DMV.

Once you drive off the lot and take delivery its basically yours, unless there's a major factory defect with the unit.. transmission falling out, etc. In this case someone hired a third party to mess with the LX.

Plus, its past the 72 hour mark to cancel the deal.

So was this guy's LR3 and the deal was reversed. Nothing is un-doable.

I re-read my pep talk in the above post. Harsh. Sorry about that. I'm sick as a dog today. Was in Urgent Care.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

How sure about that are you? Are you willing to pay his attorney's fees when the dealer and manufacture say sorry, but we are not repurchasing the vehicle?

As I said above, before dolling out legal advice, at least have an idea what the law is. I represent several car dealers. If I received a letter from an attorney in a matter like this, I would advise the client that there is no legal reason in California for them to repurchase the vehicle. I doubt that MA law is significantly different in this regard.

I got Ford to end a lease early at the 2-year mark with a year to go.

Yes, I'd invest a few hundred dollars to protect a $70K purchase and WITHOUT a blink of an eye. I'd be in the lawyers office NOW. If he doesn't want to that's his right. But my lawyer AND the GM would communicate. After that conversation I might have to make a decision whether or not to proceed, unless the dealer folds. I'D HAVE TO TRY! Too much money involved.

 

[greynolds]

i think GR is getting a heck of a deal out of this. he should feel satisfied. cheers to him for not taking the low road.

jeff

I think I feel satisfied .

It did occur to me that I'm paying for ARAG group legal service as part of my benefit package at work, so I put a call into the telephone advice option. The answer I got is that the dealer is doing everything they should (making the repairs) and more (free extended warranty, etc.). They told me to get any promises (ie: lifetime warranty on the bumper paint job) in writing and confirmed that I'm ending up with the best deal I can reasonably expect given the situation - ie: accidents happen. Lemon Law and other consumer protection laws simply don't apply in this case so long as the appropriate repairs are made.

As you and some others have said, the bumper thing sucks, but the potential air bag problems are several orders of magnitude more important to worry about. Cosmetics and resale value need to take a back seat to safety. Besides, if the bumper looks like hell in a few years because of a bad paint job, it'll be a great excuse to pull it off and replace it with one of those Slee Offroad bumpers or I can go back and have them paint it again.

 

[a990dna]

Shotts, see my most recent post.

Anything is possible.. but you need the advantage.

 

[SINCITY100]

I don't give a s*** about your tupperware bumper

This is an offroading site after all and I'm hoping this won't be the only scratch and ding on that sweet 06

...WOW !!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Shotts, see my most recent post.

Anything is possible.. but you need the advantage.

Right on. And sure we need an advantage.

All I'm saying is I'd spend a few dollars to get the legal advice needed. Then, I'd decide whether to:
A: give up
B: try a lawyer phone call to the GM
C: pursue mediation.

I'd exhaust everything before taking the LX back.

 

[Greg B]

What really sucks about this whole situation is the initial experience of ownership is a little tainted. Buying a NEW LX470 should be a blast. How often do most people get to do this? Its a bummer that you can't enjoy your new purchase right out of the gate. It sounds like you are getting good service with the 7 yr/100K warranty though. That is really nice to have! Good luck to you and enjoy your new 100!

 

[a990dna]

Right on. And sure we need an advantage.

All I'm saying is I'd spend a few dollars to get the legal advice needed. Then, I'd decide whether to:
A: give up
B: try a lawyer phone call to the GM
C: pursue mediation.

I'd exhaust everything before taking the LX back.

I agree 100%.

 

[cary]

Cary,
Yes I am aware. I'm not an attorney but there is also a 72-hour law to cancel a contract... as long as you don't take delivery of the vehicle, I believe you can exercise your rights. I'm sure it can get a little hairy if you buy a vehicle and don't take delivery for a week or so.

There is a 72 hour right to recission for buyers of new vehicles in the State of California?!!! Please tell me what recent case has held that, because stupid me has been advising clients to follow the requirements of California Vehicle Code Section 11709.2. Note that the right to purchase a cancellation contract does not go into effect until July 1, 2006.

Here is the language of the VC as amended in 2005. Until July 1, only the non bolded language is required and in effect:

11709.2. Every dealer shall conspicuously display a notice, not less than eight inches high and 10 inches wide, in each sales office and sales cubicle of a dealer's established place of business where written terms of specific sale or lease transactions are discussed with prospective purchasers or lessees, and in each room of a dealer's established place of business where sale and lease contracts are regularly executed, which states the following:

“THERE IS NO COOLING-OFF PERIOD UNLESS YOU OBTAIN A CONTRACT CANCELLATION OPTION

California law does not provide for a “cooling-off” or other cancellation period for vehicle lease or purchase contracts. Therefore, you cannot later cancel such a contract simply because you change your mind, decide the vehicle costs too much, or wish you had acquired a different vehicle. After you sign a motor vehicle purchase or lease contract, it may only be canceled with the agreement of the seller or lessor or for legal cause, such as fraud.”

However, California law does require a seller to offer a 2-day contract cancellation option on used vehicles with a purchase price of less than $40,000, subject to certain statutory conditions. This contract cancellation option requirement does not apply to the sale of a motorcycle or an off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification under California law. See the vehicle contract cancellation option agreement for details.”
Amended Sec. 7, Ch. 128, Stats. 2005. Effective January 1, 2006. Operative July 1, 2006.

Once again, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOULD NOT BE GIVING LEGAL ADVICE. It is one thing to be an educated layperson and provide information that is based upon fact, but giving out wrong information because you have no clue what you are talking about is worse than saying nothing.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Once again, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOULD NOT BE GIVING LEGAL ADVICE. It is one thing to be an educated layperson and provide information that is based upon fact, but giving out wrong information because you have no clue what you are talking about is worse than saying nothing.

Yes...that's my point. Laws differ, there are different laws, and on a $70K botched up purchase I believe an investment of a couple hundred bucks to see a lawyer and to learn one's option is well worth it. In another state, one might have an avenue for cancel.

Much of the advice given here wasn't "legal" advice, but rather "financial" or "dicision making" advice.

I'd luv to know the laws here in AZ. The LR3 was bought and within a week later it died and was picked up via tow truck and the sale cancelled....though willingly by the dealer. Even in California it can be done. What if the dealer gives in? What if this guy on this thread re-buys another LX470 from the SAME dealer and pay them $500 more? I'd pay more just for the peace of mind. You know better than me that everything is negotiable.

 

[Da Hapa]

Da Hapa - welcome to another South Orange County Member!

Thanks Brent.

Our 2006 is supposedly finishing up at the port today and on its way to the dealer. We hope to take delivery by this weekend! My wife and I are both very excited.

GR - Do let us know how everything works out.

 

[LXPearl]

GReynolds
Sorry to hear about the paroblems with a really nice new LX. It sounds like the dealer is attempting to work with you. On the 7yr/100K platinum warranty, make sure it is the zero deductible one - it is only a few bucks more - check the lexus web site where the difference is given.

I would ask for service through the 30K mileage. That is the first major service involving changing fluids, filters, etc. Before that, there is little more than oil changes and checking a few things.

With the new harness, 30K service, 7/100 warranty, and repainted bumper (a relatively common practice), I would feel real good about the vehicle. Any issues that arise in the 100K will be handled as warranty (you get a loaner too). Since the vehicle will last over 200K, it looks like a good package to me.

The extended warranty on the Lexus tends to be equivalent to the new car warranty compared to the Toyota. Make sure the warranty is offered by Lexus Financial Services. I am not aware of Lexus dealers offering 3rd party warranties like Toyota dealers do, so I believe the dealership will do you right.

I bought a new Previa in 1991 and ran over some road debris on my first road trip with some replacement repairs underneath - but after that, I never had any other damaging events in it. I traded it in on another Previa, but it is still running with 200K on it. I believe the LX will be satisfying and last a long time. A win-win negotiated agreement with the dealer will be effective in the long run.

 

[greynolds]

Thanks Brent.

Our 2006 is supposedly finishing up at the port today and on its way to the dealer. We hope to take delivery by this weekend! My wife and I are both very excited.

GR - Do let us know how everything works out.

Will do and I hope you have much better initial luck with yours .

 

[Brentbba]

Thanks Brent.

Our 2006 is supposedly finishing up at the port today and on its way to the dealer. We hope to take delivery by this weekend! My wife and I are both very excited.

GR - Do let us know how everything works out.

Mission Viejo Lexus or Tustin Lexus? We had nothing but good experiences at MV. Know a great mechanic that works at the Tustin facility tho.

 

[SWUtah]

With all due respect, get some balls!

Jason, give us some good examples when you had some balls?? I would love to hear them.