New LX-470 Fiasco - Need To Vent

[cary]

Everyone is discussing the rear bumper, but I am really concerned about the wiring airbag issue.

If you keep this LX, you need to take it to a third party and have them inspect the wiring. If the idiot pulled power from the airbag, what other screwups that you can't see did he make. Did he cut and splice wires? Has he hacked into other wires? Did he solder and seal all electrical connections he made?

Here is the problem, even though they "fixed" the airbag light problem today, your wiring harness has been compromised by being cut, spliced or otherwise hacked, you will have problems down the road. Is the dealer going to reimburse you when you have an electrical issue related to that wiring harness in 3 years, 5 years or even longer? The answer is no.

 

[Campfire]

I looked up the factory service manual under Restraint System. The first page is "SRS Airbag Precautions", it's an entire page of warnings. Start thinking of down the road, say you have an airbag problem in 18,000 miles and your not at the same dealership. They find the spot where GuidePoint tapped into the system, and tell you it's not under warranty. And they quote you $900 or more to restore the system to LEGAL and safe condition. Have the General Manager read page RS1 of the manual, and ask him if willing to bet HIS life on it.

 

[bluestar]

Demand a NEW LX470

You've only owned this truck for a week. Lemon law covers you for 3 months. And all of the damage and poor workmanship occured while your truck was at the dealership. They have the responsibility to make things good for you. Nothing less than a NEW truck should suffice for you.

Take the position of getting a replacement and stick to it no matter what. Forget about the bones they are throwing at you. Get in front of the GM, Sales and Service Managers and get them to do something. Stop talking to the lower guys in the Sales & Service. Go all the way to the top, GM, Lexus Regional and Lexus Customer Service.

You have gotten lots of advice here. All points to getting a new one. That, IMO, is the ONLY solution worth considering for you. Otherwise, get a lawyer. Whatever you do, do NOT let them repair that truck.... Dangers lurk ahead for you on this truck.....

 

[donco]

new '06

They might do a fantastic job on the bumper repair and get a perfect color match, but no matter how good they are, it won't be as good as the original finish (orange peel, eggshell, etc.) Guaranteed you will be able to see dust and pimples in the paint that the factory original won't show. The dealer's shop is buying a new cap in whatever virgin plastic color they come in and will have to paint it themselves. The paint they use at the factory for the new plastic bumpers is a special formulation with a fast cure time and is not sold to body shops (the factory plasticizers have too many EPA nasties). The bumper paint the body shop will get has a much longer cure time than the factory paint, and regardless of how clean their spraybooth might be, dust and lint will settle in it overnite and it will have to be color-sanded & buffed out. It will look nice but will not be the same as the factory original finish.

I'm not trying to relate bad news, just passing along the facts. The point being: stop by a local well reputed body shop (not theirs) that specializes in high-end cars and ask them for a reference to a local attorney whom they can recommend who handles "diminished value" claims (insurance companies hate them). Some day you're going to sell your "new" LX and if the prospective buyer has the slightest inkling the rear bumper has been hit, he won't pay you the going price and you'll have to take a hit on resale. Diminished value claims compensate you in cash up front for that eventual loss. The body shop will be more than happy to give you a referral, insurance co's are a pain for them to deal with and they're happy to see us customers "stick it to the man" once in a while.

my $.02

 

[greynolds]

I appreciate all the advice here - honestly much more than I expected.

First things first, I hear what you all are saying about demanding a brand new vehicle, but it's much easier said than done. Unless things get really bad, I really don't want to go down the road of hiring a lawyer and investing the time and money it would take.

Now there are 2 issues here.

First and definitely foremost is the airbag wiring. The GuidePoint installers tapped into the power lines in the airbag harness located below the steering wheel (just behind the switches that open/close the rear quarter windows). I saw where it was wired on the initial delivery night when the Lexus service technician pulled the GuidePoint unit out. Right then and there (not even knowing at the time that they had tapped into the airbag wiring by mistake) I expressed concerns that if they relocated the unit and left the initial work that the wiring harness might have issues down the road. Once I knew they had tapped into the airbag wiring, my concerns where much more severe - I don't want the airbags to deploy when they shouldn't or not deploy when they should as neither is a good scenario.

Second issue is the bumper. I drove up to the dealership after dinner and looked at it. I also took a picture, which I'll post a link to later on (probably not tonight - I'm tired...). No idea how they managed to hit it where it is damaged, but the damage isn't too bad. It definitely requires a new bumper and the black treadplate that runs along the top.

My salesperson was off site with another customer and the service department was closed, but I was able to meet with the general manager - which is what I really wanted to do anyway. I expressed my concerns and told him that a number of people had said I should demand a new vehicle - if nothing else, I wanted to gauge his reaction and give myself some bargaining room to work with. It was pretty clear that getting a new vehicle wasn't going to happen unless problems continue or I get a lawyer involved and even then there's no guarantee - I'm not sure there's any legal ground here so long as the dealer fixes the problem. If I have ongoing problems, the Lemon Law would kick in, but even that can be difficult to deal with (as evidenced by problems my dad had years ago with a Buick). After some back and forth, he agreed to the following:

- A free pair of Red Sox tickets, which are coming from the company that installed the GuidePoint (don't really care about these, but they were offered, so why refuse them?)
- Free 15k service
- A free 7 year / 100k mile extended warranty
- The rear bumper and treadplate will be replaced with genuine Lexus parts, color matched in their own body shop (at their sister Toyota dealership just down the street), and guaranteed for life.
- The affected wiring harness will be replaced.

I think I can live with that. If I find that I have wiring harness issues down the road I can either invoke the Lemon Law or pursue legal action if needed. And as long as they do it properly, color matching the bumper should be fine. With the extended warranty, that gives me a pretty good amount of time/mileage to ensure that any issues should be dealt with down the road. With a replacement wiring harness, I would think any issues would be evident right away rather than 5 or 6 years from now.

I now wish I had gone with LoJack instead of GuidePoint. For only a little more GuidePoint offered some nice features over LoJack, but I really just wanted either of these options because (in Massachusetts) it gives me 35% off a significant portion of my car insurance and will make me money within a few years of ownership.

 

[FirstToy]

greynolds,
sounds good. I think I would feel ok if they replaced the harness from connector-to-connector w/ OEM parts. Maybe give Cruiserdan a call to ask about technical details on what exactly needs to be replaced.

Isn't there a 30-day "cooling off" period for consumers? Isn't that a national thing or maybe I'm mistaken? Anyway, looks like you won't have to do that. best of luck!

 

[greynolds]

greynolds,
sounds good. I think I would feel ok if they replaced the harness from connector-to-connector w/ OEM parts. Maybe give Cruiserdan a call to ask about technical details on what exactly needs to be replaced.

Good idea so I can confirm the correct parts get replaced.

Isn't there a 30-day "cooling off" period for consumers? Isn't that a national thing or maybe I'm mistaken? Anyway, looks like you won't have to do that. best of luck!

No idea if such a thing exists nor what it actually would mean. Does anyone know? Specifics would be good - remember, I'm in Massachusetts.

 

[Jim_Chow]

You could see if they'll throw in a free 30K or 60K mi service. My local dealer wants $2.4K for the 60K mi service! The do inspect the t-belt, replace the iridium plugs, adjust valve gaps, flush ATF, but $2.4K?

I'd be wary of anyone tinkering w/ the factory electronics. I've read a story on the 4Runner forum where one guy's brand new 05 died on the road, had to be towed away. The culprit was a faulty installation of a remote control starting device by the shop the dealer hired...poor install shorted out the electronics.

 

[SWUtah]

- A free pair of Red Sox tickets, which are coming from the company that installed the GuidePoint (don't really care about these, but they were offered, so why refuse them?)
- Free 15k service
- A free 7 year / 100k mile extended warranty
- The rear bumper and treadplate will be replaced with genuine Lexus parts, color matched in their own body shop (at their sister Toyota dealership just down the street), and guaranteed for life.
- The affected wiring harness will be replaced.

I think I can live with that. .

I think you hit a home run. That 7 year/100K warranty is a great perk. If they are replacing the wiring harness then you are OK on the airbag and the bumper will look like new and you will never know it was painted. Example - the dealer they got the Lexus from could of dented the side of the Lexus and you would never know for a couple of years, when the paint started to fade. I know this because the "NEW" SC400 I bought was black and 2 years after I bought it I was hand washing it and noticed that the paint on part of the passenger door was fading, when I looked closer I discovered it had been repaired. You would never notice it if you weren't in a certain light and detailing the car but it was there. Enjoy your new LX.

 

[SWUtah]

My local dealer wants $2.4K for the 60K mi service! They do inspect the t-belt, replace the iridium plugs, adjust valve gaps, flush ATF, but $2.4K?
.

OK, I'll bite, why would they inspect the T-belt (really doubt it since you might as well replace it based on the work you have to do to inspect it) replace the plugs that are good for 120K miles??? and adjust valve gaps (not needed in the 4.7 liter V8). So flush the transmission that's on the list of what should be done, but I agree $2.4K is really high for a transmission flush

PS- Jim I know you know all this but I had to say something

 

[spressomon]

Make sure, as I am sure you already have and will, to get EVERYTHING they do/fix/replace/repair in writing...even the smallest/most insignificant item...

Personally I would have a REALLY hard time with a repainted bumper on a brand new vehicle (I don't care WHO repaints it: Go to any body shop and virtually any of them will tell you it is really hard if not impossible to get paint to stick to that Rubbermaid thing they call a bumper like the FACTORY paint process) that was originally damaged by your dealer...that is only saving THEM money. Sheeeeshhh tell them to refund about $5K to make up for their incompetance and the deprectiaion hit you are going to take. Why should you suffer damages because of their mistake? They want you to roll over and play dead...or worse!

 

[Campfire]

- A free pair of Red Sox tickets, which are coming from the company that installed the GuidePoint (don't really care about these, but they were offered, so why refuse them?)
- Free 15k service
- A free 7 year / 100k mile extended warranty
- The rear bumper and treadplate will be replaced with genuine Lexus parts, color matched in their own body shop (at their sister Toyota dealership just down the street), and guaranteed for life.
- The affected wiring harness will be replaced.

I think I can live with that. If I find that I have wiring harness issues down the road I can either invoke the Lemon Law or pursue legal action if needed. .

Ask for a Toyota Extended warranty, if you get some fly by night outfit, you'll be paying deductibles, and dealing with "that's not covered". And without a doubt, CONTACT TOYOTA CONSUMER AFFAIRS, and let them know what this dealer is up to.

 

[SWUtah]

Ask for a Toyota Extended warranty, if you get some fly by night outfit, you'll be paying deductibles, and dealing with "that's not covered". And without a doubt, CONTACT TOYOTA CONSUMER AFFAIRS, and let them know what this dealer is up to.

I assumed he is getting the Lexus 7 year 100K extended warranty, what else would the Lexus dealer give him???

 

[e9999]

be sure you get the good extended warranty from Lexus (there are probably different levels) not a cheapo outside company if you want to accept this offer..

oops, beat me to it...

 

[greynolds]

I assumed he is getting the Lexus 7 year 100K extended warranty, what else would the Lexus dealer give him???

Yeah, I'm assuming it will be the Lexus warranty.

To address some of the other point in this thread...

I'm obviously not happy about the problems and it's certainly given me a different perspective on the Lexus reputation for excellence, but it seems like a number of people posting in this thread are even more angry about the situation than I am. When I first got the news this afternoon I was really about it. But is it REALLY reasonable for me to expect them to give me another brand new vehicle when they're willing to replace the bumper, paint it, guarantee it for life, replace the wiring harness, give me a 7 year / 100k mile warranty, give me some free service, etc?

It's easy to post messages saying that people are buying these vehicles for $10k off list price (I've seen posts saying this when people are asking what to expect to pay) or that one should demand a brand new vehicle when the dealer screws something up, but a reality check is in order here I think. I looked at Edmunds.com before negotiating my purchase and according to them the typical selling price, at least in my area, is more like $5k off list price - and I did slightly better than that. That obviously means that some people are paying list price and some are getting better deals than I got, but negotiating apparently isn't my strongest suit. I can stomp my feet and make a scene in the showroom about getting a replacement vehicle, but all that's going to do is possibly get me carted off by the police for making a scene and get me labelled as a source of trouble by the dealership.

 

[Da Hapa]

Yeah, I'm assuming it will be the Lexus warranty.

To address some of the other point in this thread...

I'm obviously not happy about the problems and it's certainly given me a different perspective on the Lexus reputation for excellence, but it seems like a number of people posting in this thread are even more angry about the situation than I am. When I first got the news this afternoon I was really about it. But is it REALLY reasonable for me to expect them to give me another brand new vehicle when they're willing to replace the bumper, paint it, guarantee it for life, replace the wiring harness, give me a 7 year / 100k mile warranty, give me some free service, etc?

It's easy to post messages saying that people are buying these vehicles for $10k off list price (I've seen posts saying this when people are asking what to expect to pay) or that one should demand a brand new vehicle when the dealer screws something up, but a reality check is in order here I think. I looked at Edmunds.com before negotiating my purchase and according to them the typical selling price, at least in my area, is more like $5k off list price - and I did slightly better than that. That obviously means that some people are paying list price and some are getting better deals than I got, but negotiating apparently isn't my strongest suit. I can stomp my feet and make a scene in the showroom about getting a replacement vehicle, but all that's going to do is possibly get me carted off by the police for making a scene and get me labelled as a source of trouble by the dealership.

Howdy -

My wife and I are set to take delivery of a silver on gray 2006 LX470 later this week. Please feel free to pm me if you want details of our negotiated transaction although I'll note to you that S. CA and Boston aren't likely to be good lithmus tests for one another.

I can totally appreciate your frustration but I have to be frank. I don't think you have any legal grounds to demand a new car. Accidents are just that, accidents. And it seems to me that your dealer is making a very good faith effort to make things right.

I would ensure that you have everything (esp. as it relates to the airbag wiring) thoroughly documented. I would also ask that the dealership give you the Lexus Platinum extended 7/100K mile warranty as that covers a lot more than the silver or gold packages. I would also consider going back to guidepoint or whatever they're called. I know Red Sox tickets are coveted items (BTW - Go Angels!!) but there error is really the egregious part of this unfortunate tale. They oughta be bending over backwards like this dealership is doing to make sure you don't run your story to the local paper, etc.

Accidents happen and no manufacturer, dealership, personnel, etc. is above that. What makes customer service is how they handle it. And it sounds to me like this dealership is doing what is reasonable and a little more.

I hope that in a few months from now this is a forgotten memory for you and that your new baby gives you hundreds of thousands of trouble free, fun miles with no hiccups.

Good luck.

 

[Da Hapa]

Ask for a Toyota Extended warranty, if you get some fly by night outfit, you'll be paying deductibles, and dealing with "that's not covered". And without a doubt, CONTACT TOYOTA CONSUMER AFFAIRS, and let them know what this dealer is up to.

I would not settle for an extended warranty other than the Lexus extended warranty. A minor deductible isn't a big deal but private party extended warranties (even the big names) are minefileds and I've had several friends with Audi, BMW and Toyota cars get burned by going that route.

 

[Da Hapa]

Isn't there a 30-day "cooling off" period for consumers? Isn't that a national thing or maybe I'm mistaken? Anyway, looks like you won't have to do that. best of luck!

There is no 30-day cooling off period in CA. In fact, every dealership I've been to in the last 18 years go out of their way to feature big placards in the F&I guys' offices so that you're claer that there is no turning back.

 

[SWUtah]

Yeah, I'm assuming it will be the Lexus warranty.

To address some of the other point in this thread...

I'm obviously not happy about the problems and it's certainly given me a different perspective on the Lexus reputation for excellence, but it seems like a number of people posting in this thread are even more angry about the situation than I am. When I first got the news this afternoon I was really about it. But is it REALLY reasonable for me to expect them to give me another brand new vehicle when they're willing to replace the bumper, paint it, guarantee it for life, replace the wiring harness, give me a 7 year / 100k mile warranty, give me some free service, etc?

It's easy to post messages saying that people are buying these vehicles for $10k off list price (I've seen posts saying this when people are asking what to expect to pay) or that one should demand a brand new vehicle when the dealer screws something up, but a reality check is in order here I think. I looked at Edmunds.com before negotiating my purchase and according to them the typical selling price, at least in my area, is more like $5k off list price - and I did slightly better than that. That obviously means that some people are paying list price and some are getting better deals than I got, but negotiating apparently isn't my strongest suit. I can stomp my feet and make a scene in the showroom about getting a replacement vehicle, but all that's going to do is possibly get me carted off by the police for making a scene and get me labelled as a source of trouble by the dealership.

You got a good deal and they are taking care of the problem with what I think is a generous offer by the GM. Accidents happen in this world, you have the right attitude. People get new cars all of the time and within a week some idiot in a parking lot puts a big dent in their car. The other guys insurance pays to have the cheapest bid do the repair and your out your time and you have a patched up car. Anyone think the insurance guy will pay for your next major service give you a 7 year 100K mile warranty and tickets to a major league game for your trouble??? I tell you what if you jumped up and down and they did give you a new LX, the next week someone would rearend it. Life happens

 

[jp213a]

Replacing the wiring harness that was cut sounds easy but this probably involves tearing into the dash and/or steering column. I can see more problems being created than are fixed. Inquire about the technicians training before turning anyone loose.