DJForrestA said:
Yup, looks like they do, little cheaper too for both OEM and Non
http://www.sparkplugs.com/results_app.asp
New 02 Sensors = Mileage Increase
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Yup, looks like they do, little cheaper too for both OEM and Non
http://www.sparkplugs.com/results_app.asp
I guess I'm an idiot, but I could not figure out their site. I dutifully filled in the fields for year, model, make, etc and got...nothing. Hit the 'Find It!' button and got....nothing. Hit the NGK link hoping it would take me to some products and got...nothing - just a generic comment about how great NGK is. At this point I'd maxed out my personal time limit in figuring out a new site and was done with it.
DougM
DougM
I dont know how to do the screen shot thing but here's the O2 sensors Doug
O2 Sensors
Denso OE identical O2 sensor 234-4153 234-4153 FRONT LEFT $88.76
Denso OE identical O2 sensor 234-4157 234-4157 FRONT RIGHT $98.33
Denso Universal O2 sensor 234-4206 234-4206 FRONT LEFT $61.95
Denso Universal O2 sensor 234-4206 234-4206 FRONT RIGHT $61.95
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24557 FRONT LEFT $97.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24557 FRONT RIGHT $97.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24553 REAR LEFT $97.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24553 REAR RIGHT $97.85
O2 Sensors
Denso OE identical O2 sensor 234-4153 234-4153 FRONT LEFT $88.76
Denso OE identical O2 sensor 234-4157 234-4157 FRONT RIGHT $98.33
Denso Universal O2 sensor 234-4206 234-4206 FRONT LEFT $61.95
Denso Universal O2 sensor 234-4206 234-4206 FRONT RIGHT $61.95
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24557 FRONT LEFT $97.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24557 FRONT RIGHT $97.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24553 REAR LEFT $97.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24553 REAR RIGHT $97.85
CJF said:Seems kind of like changing three spark plugs...
One was throwing a code. The other was fine. Why waste money?
Searching that site gave me $97 for left sensor and $168 for right sensor. More expensive than OEM.
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24080 FRONT LEFT $96.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24654 FRONT RIGHT $168.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24080 FRONT LEFT $96.85
NGK OE identical O2 sensor 24654 FRONT RIGHT $168.85
Doug I had the same problem. Just wait. It takes a bit for the page to load. I tried like ten times and then the phone rang. When I got back the page was up. Takes like 20 seconds to load the results. Prettyi smokin deal for these sensors and I'm looking at mine now and they look like real quality pieces.
Interesting thread, I've got O2 sensors on my next tune-up parts list (135k miles). I've been watching the cycles with Autoenginuity OBD-II on my laptop and strangely the REAR sensor (post cats) is behaving badly. I would have thought the first O2 sensor as it was closer to the motor and exposed to 'dirtier' exhaust but logic jumped in to remind me that the post-cat exhaust is gonna be hotter so the second O2 might not last as long...
Anywho, they're both getting done soon...
Anywho, they're both getting done soon...
I've got 220K and these look like the original o2 sensors. Do you all think I should change them or wait till 300K
tiorio said:
What do you mean by behaving badly? On the 95-97 trucks the rear O2 should have a fairly flat response with the front O2 should cycle back and forth between rich and lean , if the rear O2 is cycling that can indicate poor catalytic converter performance. If it is flat that is normal
I have been wonderign aobt my O2's, 147K on I waht I assume are originals, milage is still OK, if I see a degrade I might give them a try.
RavenTai said:
The rear stays relatively flat and then spikes, like a short. Pulled the harness from the O2 and checked resistance and the spikes are coming from the sensor itself, much better that the alternative of having to track down a short IMHO.
Spiking is once or twice a minute...
Originally Posted by livelarg
I've got 220K and these look like the original o2 sensors. Do you all think I should change them or wait till 300K
I was kidding. Everyone was saying it should be done about 100k or so. I am getting ready to change mine as soon as I can order them. I found those cheap NGK one and I think I will get those.
I've got 220K and these look like the original o2 sensors. Do you all think I should change them or wait till 300K
CJF said:
I was kidding. Everyone was saying it should be done about 100k or so. I am getting ready to change mine as soon as I can order them. I found those cheap NGK one and I think I will get those.
livelarg said:
Ah.
Hey, is anyone who's thinking of replacing these in a place where they can easily do before/after emissions testing? For example, here in Oregon voluntary testing before you're due is free and non-binding (you won't get in trouble if you don't pass).
Either that, or try to get some additional, documented before/after mileage comparisons?
Curtis
So I'm getting an awful smell at idle, as if she is running real rich. I'm assuming it's the O2's but no check engine light is on. 130,000 on her at the moment. I have also heard that clogged catalitic converters can make a stinky smell. Any ideas here? I'm inclined to change the O2's anyway, but I thought I'd ask if anyone has had similar experiences with their FJ80.
Yeah.. this has been going on for quite a while. They were due 30k ago. Worth a shot.
I'm curious to see if changing out my O2 sensors would help my emissions. At the last SMOG test, my truck was above average in all the catergories by about 20 percent. It passes but I'd like it to run cleaner.
Makes sense as the sensors tell the black box what to do in terms of mixture.
O2 Sensor FAQ's
Some stuff on 02's
O2 should be considered a 100k part maximum. Average life is around 60k before mixture is affected. Between 60-100 it's probably going to be operational (albeit slow), but it's due. At 100k it's done. My 20years with Bosch O2's show they are a 60k part.
Rear O2 sensors vs front (OBD 2). Rear O2 sensors are long term fuel trim, so their ECU sampling rate is much slower than the fronts. They change the baseline fuel settings, then the front O2 changes the immediate fuel mixture.
Generic vs specific. All O2 sensors (currently all toyotas trucks use either 1,3 or 4 wire narrow band O2's) operate the same and have only 1 ECU signal wire. The operating voltage of a narrow band O2 sensor is .1-.9v (.5 is considered Stoich). The difference between O2 sensors are the tip openings and tip depth (read sampling in the exhaust flow), and harness. 1 wire O2's require exhaust heat to run properly. 3 and 4 wire O2's are the heated type, the 4 wire adds an additional chassis ground wire.
Splicing wires. Saves money and is a good idea. The problem is that most folks want to solder the connection. That's not a good idea, use crimp connectors and heat shrink tubing. That's because the O2 reference signal on most 3 and 4 wire O2's is thru the wiring jacket itself.
Interchangeability. Technically speaking, generics or 'substitutes' are not legal per the EPA. However, ANY narrow band O2 sensor will interchange. The difference is how long it will last (see tip depth and tip opening) in a given application. I like to use the ford applications (thunderbird SC) cuz they last a long time IME, especially in inducted motors.
Currently, narrow band O2 sensors vehicles are considered by the EPA to be WOTF (Wide Open Throttle Free). This means exactly that at WOT, the computer ignores the 02 signal and uses tables addresses for fuel. The wide band O2 was introduced a couple years ago to address WOTF, and expect the EPA to require them on the next OBD series. They are extremely accurate, and can't be 'drowned' like the narrow band type. Wide Band O2's are NOT interchangeable with narrow Band O2's.
Until the computer recieves a valid signal from the O2 sensor, it assigns a fixed default signal (usually .5 volts). If O2 sensors go bad, or the computer trips a code, the ECU uses 'limp home mode' and assigns a fixed value to the O2 sensor input in the tables. This is usually accompianied by a pretty significant drop in gas mileage.
OBD2 (rear) O2's are designed to add or subtract 15% mixture from baseline fuel tables. After 15%, a CEL will appear, indicating that either a too rich (-% number) or too lean (+%number) has exceeded the normal 15% window. A new rear O2 will hover at 0 +/- 2-3%, after mega miles it will swing up to +/- 10-11% and eventually pop the CEL at +/- 15%.
The Front O2's should be quick to react to throttle inputs. On OBD II cars, my test is to rev it to 3k and see how long it takes the O2 sensor signal to stabilize. Old, either sticks, or is very slow to react.
Before or along with, checking/replacing O2 sensors, beware that many O2 sensor R&R are misdiagnosed because of an air leak. Make sure all vacuum hoses are in good shape, especially the one going to the fuel pressure regulator. As well, I'd seriously consider a new Fuel Pressure Regulator at 100k too, it's not a lifetime part.
Hope this adds some FAQ's to the discussion. EFI is quite sophisticated, but there is no question that the introduction of Lamda (O2 sensor/s) is one of the greatest discoveries in the progression of fueling systems.
Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
Chicago IL
'94 FZJ80 Supercharged
Some stuff on 02's
O2 should be considered a 100k part maximum. Average life is around 60k before mixture is affected. Between 60-100 it's probably going to be operational (albeit slow), but it's due. At 100k it's done. My 20years with Bosch O2's show they are a 60k part.
Rear O2 sensors vs front (OBD 2). Rear O2 sensors are long term fuel trim, so their ECU sampling rate is much slower than the fronts. They change the baseline fuel settings, then the front O2 changes the immediate fuel mixture.
Generic vs specific. All O2 sensors (currently all toyotas trucks use either 1,3 or 4 wire narrow band O2's) operate the same and have only 1 ECU signal wire. The operating voltage of a narrow band O2 sensor is .1-.9v (.5 is considered Stoich). The difference between O2 sensors are the tip openings and tip depth (read sampling in the exhaust flow), and harness. 1 wire O2's require exhaust heat to run properly. 3 and 4 wire O2's are the heated type, the 4 wire adds an additional chassis ground wire.
Splicing wires. Saves money and is a good idea. The problem is that most folks want to solder the connection. That's not a good idea, use crimp connectors and heat shrink tubing. That's because the O2 reference signal on most 3 and 4 wire O2's is thru the wiring jacket itself.
Interchangeability. Technically speaking, generics or 'substitutes' are not legal per the EPA. However, ANY narrow band O2 sensor will interchange. The difference is how long it will last (see tip depth and tip opening) in a given application. I like to use the ford applications (thunderbird SC) cuz they last a long time IME, especially in inducted motors.
Currently, narrow band O2 sensors vehicles are considered by the EPA to be WOTF (Wide Open Throttle Free). This means exactly that at WOT, the computer ignores the 02 signal and uses tables addresses for fuel. The wide band O2 was introduced a couple years ago to address WOTF, and expect the EPA to require them on the next OBD series. They are extremely accurate, and can't be 'drowned' like the narrow band type. Wide Band O2's are NOT interchangeable with narrow Band O2's.
Until the computer recieves a valid signal from the O2 sensor, it assigns a fixed default signal (usually .5 volts). If O2 sensors go bad, or the computer trips a code, the ECU uses 'limp home mode' and assigns a fixed value to the O2 sensor input in the tables. This is usually accompianied by a pretty significant drop in gas mileage.
OBD2 (rear) O2's are designed to add or subtract 15% mixture from baseline fuel tables. After 15%, a CEL will appear, indicating that either a too rich (-% number) or too lean (+%number) has exceeded the normal 15% window. A new rear O2 will hover at 0 +/- 2-3%, after mega miles it will swing up to +/- 10-11% and eventually pop the CEL at +/- 15%.
The Front O2's should be quick to react to throttle inputs. On OBD II cars, my test is to rev it to 3k and see how long it takes the O2 sensor signal to stabilize. Old, either sticks, or is very slow to react.
Before or along with, checking/replacing O2 sensors, beware that many O2 sensor R&R are misdiagnosed because of an air leak. Make sure all vacuum hoses are in good shape, especially the one going to the fuel pressure regulator. As well, I'd seriously consider a new Fuel Pressure Regulator at 100k too, it's not a lifetime part.
Hope this adds some FAQ's to the discussion. EFI is quite sophisticated, but there is no question that the introduction of Lamda (O2 sensor/s) is one of the greatest discoveries in the progression of fueling systems.
Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
Chicago IL
'94 FZJ80 Supercharged
This fall there was a tech article write up in our local newspaper regarding
ways to save gas. 1 way was new 02 sensors, another mentioned not using the fan
or rear heater , etc, when you don't really need it cause the power draw from the motors actually uses more fuel. Just remembered those 2, but there were more good ideas...
ways to save gas. 1 way was new 02 sensors, another mentioned not using the fan
or rear heater , etc, when you don't really need it cause the power draw from the motors actually uses more fuel. Just remembered those 2, but there were more good ideas...
