Need the opinion of the Mud

[kdxman]

Hello fellow muder's I am at a cross roads and thought I would get the opinion of the mud to help me make a decision.I have a 96 80 series not currently a DD with 109K on the OD the head gasket has not been replaced. I am going to be switching to a diesel (because it's mine and I want too).

I live in Mesa AZ so it will need to pass the Kalifornia type emissions test I contacted Strictly Diesel here in Phoenix and was informed AZ requires engine swaps to be the same year engine or newer and pass emissions for that model year so that's what I'm going with.

I have narrowed it down to two-ish options a GM 6.5L or a Toyota 1HD-FT (first choice) / 1HD-FTE I have listed the Pros and Cons I have come up with below, please feel free to and your 2 cents. I ruled out the cummins BT4 for noise levels and the Toyota 1HDT because last year of manufacture was 1995 unless I am mistaken.

GM 6.5 Pros
I can get a newly re-manufactured one for between 5 and 6k with a 3 year 36k mile warranty
Only need a 3in lift to install
Would also have a beefy 700R4 with 0 miles behind it and a new torque converter
Parts are easy to find at local parts stores
Lots of diesel mechanics have experience with them
Not super loud
Don't shake like a dog s##ten a peach seed
Weights about 750
Intercooler available (not sure if it will fit in the yoda)
Can buy a piece at a time

GM 6.5 Cons
Not known as the most dependable diesel ever
EXTREMELY sensitive to overheating
Main Bearing Web Cracks,Crank Failures,Cylinder Heads Cracking
Would cost more to install than a Toyota diesel
Needs a Different transmission and torque converter
Needs an adapter for the T-case
Intercooler available (not sure if it will fit in the yoda)

Toyota 1HD-FT 1HD-FTE Pros
Its a Toyota
Easier to install than the 6.5
Not super loud
Don't shake like a dog s##ten a peach seed
Intercooler available that fits

Toyota 1DF-FT Cons
Don't grow on trees
Parts don't grow on trees either
Not a lot of mechanics have ever worked on one
Price
Will most likely have more than 100k on it
The 1DF-FTE would cost more to install

 

[cody c]

My advice, get a 1HDT or 1HZ (then turbo later).

Have you done any searching for 1 yet?

Try Rad cruisers out of B.C., or wayne (crushersrule on mud) or a couple of the JDM importers out of B.C. or 4wheel auto out of edmonton. I bet one of them will have something or be able to get you a price.

Its the motor you want, start searching and saving coin.

Wayne might also be able to get you a 14 or 15BT with a 5 speed or auto, which might actually be my first choice.

 

[77cruiser77]

B seriers engines are tough to get parts for in North America. 1HZ should be fine for parts as they are used extensively in the mines here in Canada. I think I remember in a thread where there was discussion about buying a new 1HZ is much cheaper than people thought they were and can be a better route than used. I could be mistaken as I am no expert, but still a consideration.

Someone who knows more will likely speak up

The problem with the 1HZ is I don't think they are that much cheaper than a 1HD-T and turboing a 1HZ isn't exactly cheap. So why not just go with the engine that comes with the turbo already?

 

[handcannon]

"GM 6.5 Cons
Not known as the most dependable diesel ever
EXTREMELY sensitive to overheating
Main Bearing Web Cracks,Crank Failures,Cylinder Heads Cracking
Would cost more to install than a Toyota diesel
Needs a Different transmission and torque converter
Needs an adapter for the T-case
Intercooler available (not sure if it will fit in the yoda)"

Check out this site,

6.5 HUMV DIESEL LONG BLOCK ENGINE GOOD LOW Mileage I-H Diamond cast yrs 06-07-08 | eBay

The newer 6.5 blocks were cast by Navistar, same company as International Harvester and the Ford 7.3 motor. When they took over from GM they beefed up the main webs and changed the composition of the metal. So far I haven't heard of any block problems with the Navistar diamond block. The crank has also been updated, and the head cracking has apparently also been fixed by Navistar.

I spend a lot of time on a couple GM diesel forums and of those there that have purchased a Teds motor only one has had a bad motor, and Teds immediately shipped a replacement. Several have pulled the heads to check things out and to go to ARP head studs. They all have reported the inside of the motor was so clean that it looked like a fresh rebuild, and the cylinders showed very visible cross hatching.

If you go with a Teds motor you will have to supply your own starter, injection pump, intake, etc, and may have to swap out the military pan for front axle clearance.

Sensitivity to over heating is a known fact, but there are mods to alleviate this problem. Also, if you don't tow anything heavy the problem is almost nil, especially if you do the mods. This is from my personal experience.

As far as swapping to the 6.5, all the adapters for the SBC will work for the 6.5 as the 6.5 is a direct bolt in for the SBC. The best auto tranny for the 6.5 is the 4L80E, however the latest version of the 700R4 has proven to hold up to the 6.5 in stock form (not modded for greater HP).

For more in depth info go to these two websites.

The Truck Stop

Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums - Duramax Diesel Discussion Forums

I just wanted you to know about this as you make your choice of diesel motor.

Good luck in your choice.

Don

 

[kdxman]

I will be looking into the 1HZ would a toyota dealer be able to get a new one? I would be interested in seeing what a new one goes for. The production on the 1HD-T ended in 95 and the oldest one I can use is a 96 per AZ

Handcannon thanks for the link for the 6.5 blocks haven't seen a ex-military block before. I knew that they had fixed a lot of the problems with the newer blocks and I see they have a lot of great info on the 6.5 on diesel place I will be looking there as well

Thanks too every one for the help

 

[ToyRoverlander]

I will be looking into the 1HZ would a toyota dealer be able to get a new one? I would be interested in seeing what a new one goes for.

Toyodiy shows a price of just over €25.000 for a 1hz ('95 HZJ80). That's without sales tax (19% over here). So it would cost over 30G here..
I found the listed prices to be accurate when I looked up part numbers (and prices) compared to what I had to pay at the dealer. (for instance, a cylinder head for a 3B is listed as €1.500, actual price was indeed 1500 ex tax).

 

[kdxman]

That is a bit more than I was looking to send on a engine, well I'll keep looking
thanks for the info

 

[OGBeno]

I will be looking into the 1HZ would a toyota dealer be able to get a new one? I would be interested in seeing what a new one goes for. The production on the 1HD-T ended in 95 and the oldest one I can use is a 96 per AZ

Handcannon thanks for the link for the 6.5 blocks haven't seen a ex-military block before. I knew that they had fixed a lot of the problems with the newer blocks and I see they have a lot of great info on the 6.5 on diesel place I will be looking there as well

Thanks too every one for the help

I can get you a new 1HZ short block, head, camshaft and other bits and pieces. A long block is not offered.

Pricing is actually very, very reasonable.

 

[kdxman]

PM sent

 

[Tapage]

Just for reference 1HD-T was factory option in many of our 100 series down here up to 2002.

 

[kdxman]

Did not know that, Thanks for the info

 

[roscoFJ73]

How would the californian smog nazis know what year it was anyway?

 

[Gun Runner 5]

How would the californian smog nazis know what year it was anyway?

The Department of Motor Vehicles is known to hire only the smartest people.
* This applies to government in general.

 

[kdxman]

Odds are they probably wont but with my luck this would be the first time they ever checked in the history of the DMV

 

[77cruiser77]

how much in love are you with your current 96? that can be a valuable year so you could sell, get a cheaper 92 with the 3F and then you engine options would really open up.

 

[prado t]

how much in love are you with your current 96? that can be a valuable year so you could sell, get a cheaper 92 with the 3F and then you engine options would really open up.

X2

Do yourself a favour get that GM 6.5 hunk of crap out of your mind.

People who put the 4B-Ts cummins in them end up selling shortly after, I dont know why?

 

[Dougal]

IMO there isn no choice to be made, just one question. Can you find and afford the 1HD swap?

 

[longbow]

KDXMAN,


Before I spent all the money to convert to a 1HD-t, I would have a conversation with the emission inspectors. I went round and round with these guys and they have a very extensive database that they pull from and I don't believe they will allow the Toyota diesel to be installed because it was never imported into the US. The only options that I could get them to buy off on for an 80 series were the GM 6.5 and the later Mercedes diesels found in sedans. The engine has to have been offered in the same class of vehicle as well as same year or later and retain all emission equipment including catalytic converters and all EGR parts. Neither of these engines were worth converting to in my opinion so I went for the Isuzu.

I eventually lost my patience with the system and did what I wanted. There are ways to get around the smog nazis if you are willing to work at it.

Hope that helps.

Don

 

[slowandsteady BJ]

X2

Do yourself a favour get that GM 6.5 hunk of crap out of your mind.

^this.^

 

[kdxman]

Longbow, Thanks for the information, that narrows the field down quite a bit. The last thing I want to do is have to go round and round with the DOT.