Need help with 13B-T

[danhr]

I have a BJ74V-MNX Toyota LC Prado. It has a 13B-T in it. Everything was working fine except that it did 4km/lit and had problem with brakes.

It was a beast, had tremendous power yet produced black smoke with full throttle. To lower the fuel costs and emission, I asked a tech to fine tune the pump. He did so yielding performance drop (notably). I asked him to undo the changes (as I prefer power), he messed with it but no increase was seen. He told me that 'pump plungers' along with some other things need to be changed, did so but still nothing.

Now coming to brakes... While crusing I noticed that brakes used to get pumped and thus didn’t used to work properly. Asked a mech to fix it, he said generator needs to be replaced. Result: Brakes are ok (not good as they were) but the clutch, it gives me quit a work out. It is pretty 'hard'.


Asked the mech to fix it, he said there is nothing much he can do. Why? well...... He cannot.

I took the matter in my own hands now, so here is what I did and need to know:




a) I think the mech messed with vacuum and air tubes/pipes. This resulted in performance drop (according to me). Need to know what tubing comes from turbo and enters the pump. I need the tubing diagram or someone who knows 13B-T well, he/hers help via this forum.


b) I think the generator the mech installed is not really for this Prado. How I know? Here is what I did:

I swapped the clutch and brake tubing. The result was clutch operated smooth (as it should) but the brake got 'hard'.

If you look at the back of the generator, you would find a small cup that has three tubes coming out. One for brake, one for clutch and one for engine shutdown. The engine cut off tubing is shared with one of these two (clutch, or brake) tubing. Clutch and brake tubing are larger in size.

This cup has an impeller that produces air. If the shared one is used for clutch; clutch goes hard, if used for brakes; brakes go hard and engine takes time to shut down.



I removed the cup and noticed that the 'shared' pipe outlet had a considerably small hole than the non-shared outlet. My question thus is, Should I just increase the size of this hole? Perhaps that solves the problem? Does anyone know the size of these holes?





c) I have a CT 26 turbo in it. It produces only 5psi and the green light turns on 2000 rpm. A week earlier, it produced 10psi, what happened?


d)Lot's more still to come ....First help me with the above problems.


I can provide pics if you do not understand what I am saying. Just do reply (it would encourage me).

 

[rutbeer]

Response to item "a".
There really isn't any piping that comes from the turbo and runs to the pump. There are two vacuum lines that run from the turbo. The large one runs from the pressure side of the turbo to the dump valve mounted on the side of it. When you get too much turbo pressure, the dump valve activates and bleeds it off. The other line is a vacuum line that comes right off the side of the crossover pipe. Well, this is probably more of a Pressure line than a vacuum, but it runs down to the vacuum tee on the side of the block. From memory, I want to say one side powers the solenoid that closes the intake shutter, and the other side runs up to the vacuum pump itself.
I doubt any of that would affect the engine power though. It seems like everything vacuum on the 13bt is for accessories, or shutdown only. I suppose it's possible that he messed up your turbo dump valve though and you are dumping too early.

 

[danhr]

Response to item "a".
There really isn't any piping that comes from the turbo and runs to the pump. There are two vacuum lines that run from the turbo. The large one runs from the pressure side of the turbo to the dump valve mounted on the side of it. When you get too much turbo pressure, the dump valve activates and bleeds it off. The other line is a vacuum line that comes right off the side of the crossover pipe. Well, this is probably more of a Pressure line than a vacuum, but it runs down to the vacuum tee on the side of the block. From memory, I want to say one side powers the solenoid that closes the intake shutter, and the other side runs up to the vacuum pump itself.
I doubt any of that would affect the engine power though. It seems like everything vacuum on the 13bt is for accessories, or shutdown only. I suppose it's possible that he messed up your turbo dump valve though and you are dumping too early.

Thanks for replying.

I have not seen a vaccum running out from turbo. I shall take a closer look.

What I see is one tubing is going to the wastegate thing (what's it called?). One coming out from the turbo pipe (on the side to where turbo is written in red) that goes somewhere down. I am not able to trace that but if I d/c it, green turbo light does not turn on. The last one goes to some other thing which is near the pump. I do not know what that is, I will take a pic and show it to you. All of these blow air.

I do not understand the working of this engine. How does pump know to increase fuel with increase in air (when turbo spools)?

Moreover, I need engine manual for 13B-t. Any ideas where to get one?

 

[roscoFJ73]

Did you check the injectors and air filter 1st?

Maybe your vacuum pump on the alternator is worn and not pumping enough.

You have a Landcruiser,not a Prado

Manuals available on Ebay

 

[cruiser_guy]

Manuals here for download!
http://www.birfield.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=77

 

[danhr]

roscoFJ73:


Recently changed the air filter. Checked and cleaned the intake pipes as well.

I showed the generator (alternator) to a generator repair guy. He checked and said it is brand new with no problem. He did say that this is not the generator for this vehicle and finding one required is not possible. He also suggested that the resizing the hole might help with the clutch issue.

Paper work and monogram on back says it a Prado. This particular model is with FRP top and body lifted (factory default).

cruiser_guy:

Thanks. Now I know what that wastegate thingy is


---------------------------------

Ok I am providing additional info assuming it might help.

I removed the pipe from the waste gate Actuator. It does not affect performance. Green light comes on at 2100rpm (with or without Actuator). I replaced the actuator with a new one but same result is seen i.e. 5psi @4100rpm. Strange?

One of the pipes goes from the turbo's air out pipe to Boost Compensator. If I remove it, no performance drop is seen. May be I need to mess around with Boost Compensator? If so, suggest how.

Vehicle does make bluish smoke when cold. However, when temperature goes up, no or very little bluish smoke is seen.

The turbo throws small amount of oil in its air. This results in oil coming out from the joints of the intake manifold (not from engine bolts. Actually from the bolts that connect intake manifold to turbo pipe).Small amount of oil is seen in all of the three pipes that come out from turbo pipe.

Suggest if I need to change the turbo (make this last option since turbo is pretty expensive).

 

[danhr]

More:

Whether it is 5 psi or whether it was 10, no performance drop/gain was and is noticed. i.e. something is wrong.

 

[rutbeer]

5psi at 4100rpm....have you checked for leaks in the exhaust manifold, intake, and turbo connections? Have you pulled the intake elbow and checked for turbo bearing smoothness and axial play?
The low psi can really only be caused by a few things. Bad turbo, leaks/blocks. If the turbo spins very freely and has the allowable axial play, then you must have a leak.

Did you say whether or not your boost compensator on the back of the fuel pump is hooked up correctly to the cross over intake pipe? This may also be causing problems for you, so check that it's correctly configured and that he didn't tamper with it.

 

[Japan4X4]

It is not a Prado, 100% sure on that. Trust me, they are bolted together just up the road a bit.

It sounds to me like you are overfueling and that perhaps your turbo is shot. Your boost pressure is way too low. Review the procedure in the manual for checking.

 

[crushers]

where are you located?
the lie to the turbo from the crossover is a boost pressure line, not a vacumm line (althought they look the same)
you need to find someone that actually knows these trucks, sounds like your mech is not up to snuff.
do a vaumm test at the clutch booster.
do a vacumm test at the alernator.
it sounds like the turbo might be toast, do you have a boost guage installed?

 

[Greg_B]

Now coming to brakes... While crusing I noticed that brakes used to get pumped and thus didn’t used to work properly. Asked a mech to fix it, he said generator needs to be replaced. Result: Brakes are ok (not good as they were) but the clutch, it gives me quit a work out. It is pretty 'hard'. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

Your brakes and clutch being hard indicates as you suggest that something is likely up with your vacum system. Look to the your vacum ststem to ensure you're getting enough vacum for the brake and clutch boosters to work. If you don't have the FSM, get one, and test as per manual as Crushers says.

The engine shuts down via a vacum activated valve. This closes a shutter in the intake air stream...starving the engine of air. Make sure the vacum pot has not been leaned on and bent. Make sure the shutter is not getting activated 1/2 way (starving the engine of air=power). With the engine running, look at the angle of the shutter arm. Disconnect the vacum line that goes to the pot (default position is open shutter). See if that makes a difference. The shutter would likely get sucked closed if it is partially closed, but check and see anyway.

Was anything stuffed into the intake manifold that someone would have forgotten to take out?

Have you had a compression test done, so you have that datum?

Do you have a boost gauge set up? Might be as simple as the wastegate actuator is pooched, thus dumping way too early. Are you sure the wastegate is closing all the way?

Are all your rubber fuel lines in good shape and not collapsing under draw...restricting flow?

Fuel filter is new?

hth's

gb

 

[danhr]

Japan4x4:
It is a Prado. This one is 1987 BJ74V-MNX. It is a two door (excluding back gate). Unlike simple Land cruisers, this one has different back seating (two in row for two passengers with armrests). It is full option since it came with its own freezer. It has FRP top (removable fiberglass), body lifted with four front shock absorbers and four back shock absorbers. If you still disagree I can post pics and you would find this one as 'one of a kind'


rutbeer, Crushers, Greg_B:

Where can I get this FSM tool? (Post link)

Engine off shutter works fine (nothing wrong with it, it sits properly where it should after engine start). There are no bent vacuum pipes either.

Nothing in intake pipe as well (clean). I never did a compression test, post a link for its gauge as well. I have a boost gauge and it shows 5psi. Waste gate does not operate at 5psi and psi remains constant with full throttle (thus not dumping anything early). Wastegate Actuator seems to be working fine as well (I recently replaced it).

I replaced the fuel filter and air filter a month ago. Strangely, air filter is still clean and blowing air into it did not produce any dust (paper still is in bright yellow color). I replace engine oil every 3000km using quality oil (semi-synthetic that is used by US Army for Hummer and are rated for 5000+km replacement. Use original oil filer as well.

BTW, anyone ever replaced 13B-T's alternator? I need to know about the head with impeller behind alternator that produces vacuum. I want to know its hole size.

 

[rutbeer]

Don't know the hole size, but there are two different vacuum pumps, the fine spline and the course spline. Given your year, you probably have the fine spline as it seems to be a later model change.

 

[LowFour]

danhr, if you're still looking for info on the 13B-T, there is a frenchie site that has a series of parts diagrams, probably taken off the Toyo EPC. About 2/3 the way down there is a schematic of the vacuum system, a bit condensed. It's the best I've found so far.

http://perso.orange.fr/adherence_4x4/moteur13BT.htm

 

[danhr]

I was busy so never gave time to my 4x4.

Recently I removed the pipe of waste actuator (that goes from turbo to actuator). The psi from 5 jumped to 14!

But even with such a huge psi gain, I could barely find difference in pickup.

Any ideas?

 

[danhr]

Clutch issue resolved

Ok the clutch problem is solved. I just increased the hole size. I will post pics soon.

BTW at the back of 13B-T engine, below VSV valve (about 2 feet lower), there is a relay. It has 3 nozzels. Now it seems that there should be vaccum/air pipes attached to it but there isnt any. I wanted to know what to connect to them?

The relay is similar to AC relay just the it has three nozzels. A grip is attached to it for power. The color of relay is green.

Other thing that I wanted to know is just to the left of boost compensator is a lever. If I pull this lever to left, engine shuts down. What is the purpose of this?

 

[rutbeer]

That relay you refer to sounds like the vacuum switch to shut the engine down. There should be a vac line that runs from it to the shutter pot on top of the intake (just above the intake heater) When you kill the power, vacuum is diverted to the shutter and it closes the flap, starving the engine of air.

 

[danhr]

That relay you refer to sounds like the vacuum switch to shut the engine down. There should be a vac line that runs from it to the shutter pot on top of the intake (just above the intake heater) When you kill the power, vacuum is diverted to the shutter and it closes the flap, starving the engine of air.

rutbeer:

Thank you for the reply.

I do not think it is engine shutdown relay. The vaccum pipe from VSV goes to a metal pipe below which takes a round turn and gets to the other side. I have not been able to trace it yet, I will do it in late evening today.

Also, since there is no pipe attacted to this relay, it is difficult to find out what it is for.

I was able to find one nozzel nearby, perhaps pipes goes there...?

The most annoying thing is that I am not able to take pics of this relay due to the fact that it is in a location where light cannot hit it properly.

I am still thinking that the engine power loss could be due to :

a)Pump
b)Boost compensator (how to check it, what feel will I get if I blow air into it via mouth?)
c) Air/Vaccum pipes

 

[danhr]

Black Smoke!

Ok now something rather unusual has happened. While driving on the highway, suddenly the throttle stopped responding. I could see black smoke all over the place behind me (a cloud of black smoke). Infact, I was not able to see the car behind me anymore.

I have mounted the boost guage 'T' to the pipe that goes to boost compensator (from the turbo, air pipe). I could see it go on 20 psi vaccum during all this.

[Just for info, the place that I have connected the 'T', when I stop the engine the guage shows 30 vaccum and engine shuts down. This is normal.]

I turned off the engine and started it again, a little black smoke and seconds later everything returned to normal.

This has happened to me 3 times now.

 

[Tapage]

Ok .. let me underestand ..

You disconect your wategate and your get more boost, it means your turbo it's ok ( that fine and good IMOP )

So maybe something in your wategate are not function fine .. ( proper adjust on the wategate boost seting )

When you press the gas .. you have black smoke ( no boost ) increasing boost you get less smoke no .?