My 2LTE is an alcoholic (1 Viewer)

[GTSSportCoupe]

As some of you may know, I've been pushing the limits on my 2lte since I bought a LJ78 a couple years ago. Mine has so far not had any overheating or head problems since coming to Canada 8 years and 80,000kms ago. I pull a 1.5ton (loaded weight) camper trailer with it; sometimes up 8% or more grades at highway speeds in summer heat. I've done many modifications for more power and to keep it cool. See here for a list: https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/new-member-in-victoria-lj78.631504/

Thought I'd give meth/water injection a try. Primarily for more power, and to reduce further the chance of the head cracking while towing. Bought a used Devil's Own 250psi progressive kit off Ebay. Installed it last week and have been playing around with it since. So far I'm just using the windshield washer resevoir. I installed a D01 (60ml/min) nozzle pre turbo (yeah, risky I know...), and a D04 (250ml/min) nozzle post intercooler. The system is progressive, and starts injecting at 10psi, and reaches full duty cycle by 15psi. I've got a one way valve at the turbo nozzle to keep it from drawing fluid when the system is off. I'll probably buy a second for the main nozzle; but I'm not too worried, as there is almost always positive pressure there. From what I can tell it's not leaking at all, as I go through no fluid with the system off. The controller is mounted inside the cab, where I can monitor the operation by the LEDs and change it by a couple potentiometers.

I'm runing about 30%meth and 70%water. Initially I had started with 49%meth and 51%water. I had a lot of knock, and at first thought I'd have to reduce the nozzle size. With some experimentation, I realized I just needed to change my ratio of meth/water. I think running too much meth can cause pre-detonation (meth ignites on compression stroke). Running 30/70 now, there is no pre-detonation. I can start injection at very low psi if I want with no bogging whatsoever and wicked low end torque. Problem is I run out of fluid in about 10min of driving because Prado is always in boost; so now I've set the start psi to 10. I'll be putting a 20 litre or more resevoir in the back of my truck for longer trips while towing the camper trailer.

I'd say the meth injection has added about 10-20% power. The Prado pulls nice with it. Almost like a big V6 or small V8 would. (I've done many other modifications to increase power as well). Hard to know, but I'd guess I'm around 150hp and 250ft/lb or more at the flywheel now. Easily twice as much power as it was stock (factory specs are way optimistic). Also when the system is on for a bit, EGT's drop 100F or more. After running 16psi for a bit, the intake manifold is ambient temp or less.

Definintely a good bang for the buck mod one a 2lte.

Pics:

 

[ForealBoreal]

Out of curiosity why did you do pre turbo.
You should run a few tests to see if it truly has any changes to your EGTS.
I would be sketched out of your comp wheel and pooling in your intercooler.
Yet again people think I am nuts putting 20lbs boost into my 1HZ.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Out of curiosity why did you do pre turbo.
You should run a few tests to see if it truly has any changes to your EGTS.
I would be sketched out of your comp wheel and pooling in your intercooler.
Yet again people think I am nuts putting 20lbs boost into my 1HZ.

Went pre-turbo because I'm running my CT20 really hard. Looking to increase efficiency, and decrease heat at the compressor.

The best test will be when I'm towing. I need to change my resevoir first tho, as my 3 litre windshield washer one will empty real fast.

I'll update this thread as I learn more.

 

[IanB]

Take some "before" pics of your compressor turbine fins, lol. Hope it continues to work out well for you!

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Take some "before" pics of your compressor turbine fins, lol. Hope it continues to work out well for you!

The lower one:

 

[Dougal]

Water/meth to avoid cracking heads? I've heard it all now.

 

[Douglas S]

Friend of mine ate away his wheel running meth pre turbo on his 2lte FWIW.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Water/meth to avoid cracking heads? I've heard it all now.

I think I said 'further reduce the chance'. Have you used a water/meth system before? Do we need to debate the benefits and risks? Many people use water/meth systems to help cool and power their engines while towing. It's all in the setup, tuning and mix. Thanks for your constructive input.

Friend of mine ate away his wheel running meth pre turbo on his 2lte FWIW.

Sorry to hear. I do acknowledge the risk of this. I've done what I can to reduce the risk (tiny nozzle, very high pressure, check valve, regular inspection). If it happens, well, I rebuild the turbo. Not the end of the world by any means. Worst case scenario and some big compressor pieces break off, the intercooler will stop most of what would be harmful to the engine. And I'm sure I'll know somethings up long before that when the turbo is not performing right.

 

[Dougal]

I think I said 'further reduce the chance'. Have you used a water/meth system before? Do we need to debate the benefits and risks? Many people use water/meth systems to help cool and power their engines while towing. It's all in the setup, tuning and mix. Thanks for your constructive input.

Have I used one? No and I never will. It will not reduce the chance of any failure. It will directly increase the risk of many failures. Including heads and head-gaskets.

If you need water/meth as a band-aid, to keep temps down, then your tune is utter poo.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

then your tune is utter poo.

Most think the 2lte is utter poo.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Friend of mine ate away his wheel running meth pre turbo on his 2lte FWIW.

I think you are talking about raboyto2 right? Some pictures of his setup came up with a quick search, and I think I can tell you why his compressor eroded. He has his pre-turbo nozzle way too far before the turbo. This gives the mist time to form back into larger droplets. With pre-turbo injection, the nozzle has to be as close to the compressor as possible. Mine is just an inch or two away, so hoping that will make the difference.

Edit: Also found a thread about this failure on one of the alcohol injection forums. raboyto2 also had his injection start psi set really low, and a non progressive controller. The 2lte is always making boost, even a very low loads. When there is not much air movement, and you are injecting lots, chances of issues like pooling etc are greatly increased. Again, this likely led to his compressor erosion problem.

Here is his setup:

 

[yotahed]

I hate to be another kill joy, and I know you probably put a lot of work into this setup,
But as long as you have a nozzle in front of your comp wheel, the above pics will be your wheel.
It might take longer, as you say your running a progressive controller. But the water/meth will eat away at your compressor.
I would put your nozzle directly after the wheel if you're dead set on having two nozzles. Even put it in the comp housing. But in front isn't good for longevity of the compressor wheel. With that said, you could also try using a billet comp wheel as they stand up to more abuse and may not deteriorate the same as a cast wheel. Something to think on anyhow.

Otherwise I think its a pretty cool setup.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Thanks for your advice yotahed. Maybe if my compressor dies, then I'll use it as an excuse for a turbo upgrade? GT2056? Or maybe I'll just pull the pre-turbo nozzle and see if I can even notice any difference....

 

[ForealBoreal]

I hate to be another kill joy, and I know you probably put a lot of work into this setup,
But as long as you have a nozzle in front of your comp wheel, the above pics will be your wheel.
It might take longer, as you say your running a progressive controller. But the water/meth will eat away at your compressor.
I would put your nozzle directly after the wheel if you're dead set on having two nozzles. Even put it in the comp housing. But in front isn't good for longevity of the compressor wheel. With that said, you could also try using a billet comp wheel as they stand up to more abuse and may not deteriorate the same as a cast wheel. Something to think on anyhow.

Otherwise I think its a pretty cool setup.

My thoughts exactly. I figure you should cut down your consumption down to half.
The thing is spinning so fast that it could get out of balance with some erosion is my thoughts.
I would have something in the roster ready in case of something happening.
Give it a test with one post intercooler and then later on with one before the intercooler.
I would be curious to know the results.

Keep us posted. I have pondered on this mod but I think I will be golden with my 12mm pump and a better turbo with more boost.

 

[raboyto2]

Yea I placed it too far back. My thought was to prevent direct compressor spray and give it a moment to distribute / evaporate in the air flow. But I guess i was told I was wrong. In the end I wasnt 100% that the location was the problem. Take your nozzle out, jump the pump and watch the nozzle. Its a nice mist until you turn it off. Once the pump turns off and the pressure drops off, it turns into a dribble coming out of the nozzle for a second. (even with an inline check valve). I believe it was this dribble that killed my compressor. Well to be fair it didnt kill it. I ran the turbo for another 20,000kms and eventually changed it out because of oil leaking into the intake. I have it sitting in my shed incase I need a temporary replacement.


I went to a dual post turbo set up for a while. There were days that I got really good results, but most days it didnt seem too help too much. I got much better results with the inter cooler (which you already have). TerryS got alot more involved into water meth than I did. I started off doing a water /meth mix but progressed to straight water. I got sick of filling the 20liter tank, especially on road trips. Eventually my pump rusted out and I just took the system out.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

My thoughts exactly. I figure you should cut down your consumption down to half.
The thing is spinning so fast that it could get out of balance with some erosion is my thoughts.
I would have something in the roster ready in case of something happening.
Give it a test with one post intercooler and then later on with one before the intercooler.
I would be curious to know the results.

Keep us posted. I have pondered on this mod but I think I will be golden with my 12mm pump and a better turbo with more boost.

By removing the pre-turbo nozzle, I'll still have 4/5 my injection volume, so won't loose much really. Yeah, been meaning to pick up a used CT20 to rebuild in my 'spare' time.

I don't think I'd ever put a big nozzle before the intercooler. It would only reduce the intercooler efficiency. The pre-turbo one is the smallest I could buy. Anyhow, will definitely keep you posted. Probably will remove the pre-turbo one and give it a try I guess. Only reason its there really is to help the turbo last by cooling it and increasing efficiency, but if it's eroding it then it's undermining the whole reason for having it there.

I'd never put one of these systems on an engine like yours. There is really no reason to. Power is something you have more than enough of, and you never have to push your engine as long and hard as I do. If you take my estimated power/torque (150hp/250lbft) and convert it to the proportional equivalent for a 4.2l diesel it would be 262hp/440lb/ft. Kinda puts the state of my engine and how hard it is working into perspective. I may be optimistic on my estimate, but it's in the right ballpark.

Yea I placed it too far back. My thought was to prevent direct compressor spray and give it a moment to distribute / evaporate in the air flow. But I guess i was told I was wrong. In the end I wasnt 100% that the location was the problem. Take your nozzle out, jump the pump and watch the nozzle. Its a nice mist until you turn it off. Once the pump turns off and the pressure drops off, it turns into a dribble coming out of the nozzle for a second. (even with an inline check valve). I believe it was this dribble that killed my compressor. Well to be fair it didnt kill it. I ran the turbo for another 20,000kms and eventually changed it out because of oil leaking into the intake. I have it sitting in my shed incase I need a temporary replacement.


I went to a dual post turbo set up for a while. There were days that I got really good results, but most days it didnt seem too help too much. I got much better results with the inter cooler (which you already have). TerryS got alot more involved into water meth than I did. I started off doing a water /meth mix but progressed to straight water. I got sick of filling the 20liter tank, especially on road trips. Eventually my pump rusted out and I just took the system out.

Hey, thanks for posting here man! I'll pull my nozzles and give them a try as you've suggested. That dripping is concerning for sure.

I've had some mixed results with the power as well. Basically I think I've discovered that the meth/water ratio is really critical. Too much meth and I get pre-detonation. Too little and there is no power and it runs a bit less smooth. When I get the ratio right, the thing pulls really really nice. Very similar gain to when I first cranked my fuel up on my injection pump and doubled the boost.

I know what you mean about keeping the reservoir topped up; it's a PITA. In the end I'll probably only use the system intermittently (like when towing up steep grades etc.), and will leave it off otherwise.

Thanks again for your experience and input.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

After a bit of reading I think I've discovered why some people get more power than others out of the meth/water injection. It has a lot to do with how much available oxygen there is for the meth to burn with. If your engine is already running a bit on the rich side, then there is much less power advantage with the meth. If you are running a little lean, then you will gain far more from the meth. I knew quite a while ago that I'd reached the limits of my injection pump, and that is a good part of the reason I turned to the meth. Once into boost, I never had any smoke, and my EGTS were on the low side. I had more air than the diesel could burn. Now with the meth I'm making good use of the extra air.

 

[IanB]

Will you be datalogging your intake temps and EGT's with and without the water/meth setup? Do you have any means of calculating power increase with the system engaged?

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Will you be datalogging your intake temps and EGT's with and without the water/meth setup? Do you have any means of calculating power increase with the system engaged?

I would like to, but realistically am not sure if I'll have the time. I meant to do the same with my intercooler setup as well, but haven't got around to it yet.

I would like to put the rig on a dyno and see where I'm at. Easy to turn the meth/water on/off and see what the difference is, as well as log EGTs. Again, just have to find the time. If I do it, I'll post the results here.

 

[raboyto2]

Ideally for pre turbo setups you want something like this.

If you want to get more technical about it (lots of math and equations coming up) then this is a fantastic read about pre turbo water injection.

http://killerbeeperformance.com/download/ifog/i-fog.pdf