motor may be toast
- Thread starter tshandonay
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- Thread starter
- #42
I suppose I'll start tearing it apart....I was going to throw in the towel and try to sell it as-is or part it....but my observations so far are leaving me with some hope. My biggest issues is I just don't have the time to be dealing with this....hell, the axle rebuild took me three months over the summer.
- Thread starter
- #44
Have the proper fittings and manual gauge plus stethoscope. Oh and a starter switch.
Have the best neighbor. You can't imagine his garage. entire toolbox full of fittings. Almost couldn't lift it.
Will brave the cold tonight for a bit
Will update later
Have the best neighbor. You can't imagine his garage. entire toolbox full of fittings. Almost couldn't lift it.
Will brave the cold tonight for a bit
Will update later
- Thread starter
- #45
another video - strange issue
Alright folks...the plot thickens. Here is what I did tonight. (-15 outside and maybe 10 in the garage not giving my heat much time to do any damage)
- put on a new filter (not sure I should have added this variable)
- attached mechanical oil pressure gauge
- very cold start and that gauge was reading near 80 (YES!!)
- cleaned contacts on oil pressure sender and reattached
- started again and the dash gauge reads normal. Just above the 3rd mark....normal for temps this cold on this rig
- removed the all belts and let it warm up to normal idle while i listened with a stethoscope. Never used one of these before so I'm not sure what I may have missed, but I focused on the valve cover and timing cover area. As far as I could tell the knocking noise was most apparent near the water pump. Bring RPM to 2k and the knock is not perceptible. Motor seems to run and sound normal.
This video is much better than the previous as the tick or knock is more apparent at normal idle speed. I really thought this motor was done....but I'm become more optimistic. Just need to determine what the repair is going to entail and if I want to invest and time and money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-ANne4dHMg&feature=youtu.be
Thoughts anyone? And again....thanks so much for your input. Sure hope the knowledge I'm gaining can be shared with someone in the future.
Tim
Alright folks...the plot thickens. Here is what I did tonight. (-15 outside and maybe 10 in the garage not giving my heat much time to do any damage)
- put on a new filter (not sure I should have added this variable)
- attached mechanical oil pressure gauge
- very cold start and that gauge was reading near 80 (YES!!)
- cleaned contacts on oil pressure sender and reattached
- started again and the dash gauge reads normal. Just above the 3rd mark....normal for temps this cold on this rig
- removed the all belts and let it warm up to normal idle while i listened with a stethoscope. Never used one of these before so I'm not sure what I may have missed, but I focused on the valve cover and timing cover area. As far as I could tell the knocking noise was most apparent near the water pump. Bring RPM to 2k and the knock is not perceptible. Motor seems to run and sound normal.
This video is much better than the previous as the tick or knock is more apparent at normal idle speed. I really thought this motor was done....but I'm become more optimistic. Just need to determine what the repair is going to entail and if I want to invest and time and money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-ANne4dHMg&feature=youtu.be
Thoughts anyone? And again....thanks so much for your input. Sure hope the knowledge I'm gaining can be shared with someone in the future.
Tim
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I can't tell what it is. Is this a possibility?
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_time_chain.htm
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_time_chain.htm
Sounds like a lifter to me. Maybe record it as you gradually bring it up in rpms then back down and up. What's your neighbor think? Sounds like he has tools and experience maybe he could give he a listen?
I was mostly saying that I thought it sounded like upper rather than lower, so lifter, tappet or hyd lash adjuster, I know it is ohc design and doesn't have traditional pushrods and lifters but Toyota does sell this part for this motor--
13751 LIFTER, VALVE
13751‑66020 1FZFE..FZJ80 24 $19.81
13751 LIFTER, VALVE
13751‑66020 1FZFE..FZJ80 24 $19.81
- Thread starter
- #51
I think its time to start reading the FSM. At this point, I've got to get the scalpel out and open it up. I am going to check compression on the back three cylinders first just to know...but I'm guessing they'll be consistent with the front three or close.
Will also spend some more time with the stethoscope....I was getting cold and hungry last night and didn't do a complete listen.
What isn't apparent in the audio of the last clip is what does sound potentially like the timing chain rubbing on something. Since I've owned it I have had the timing chain rattle on cold starts...usually gone after a few seconds.
So to summarize:
1. oil pressure very good
2. compression seems very good
3. assuming no block, cylinder or lower damage
4. pulled the belts and ran it...so no accessory noise or belt/pulley/tensioner type issues
5. it runs very well....no smoke, no CEL, oil looks good, coolant looks good
I'll be checing with my mechanic neighbor to see what he thinks and hoping he'll give it a listen. I don't think he's interested in working on it....but is more than will to lend his tools as long as I take care of them and return them.
Will also spend some more time with the stethoscope....I was getting cold and hungry last night and didn't do a complete listen.
What isn't apparent in the audio of the last clip is what does sound potentially like the timing chain rubbing on something. Since I've owned it I have had the timing chain rattle on cold starts...usually gone after a few seconds.
So to summarize:
1. oil pressure very good
2. compression seems very good
3. assuming no block, cylinder or lower damage
4. pulled the belts and ran it...so no accessory noise or belt/pulley/tensioner type issues
5. it runs very well....no smoke, no CEL, oil looks good, coolant looks good
I'll be checing with my mechanic neighbor to see what he thinks and hoping he'll give it a listen. I don't think he's interested in working on it....but is more than will to lend his tools as long as I take care of them and return them.
With the sound focused around the water pump I too think that a timing chain issue may be the cause. I haven't removed the tensioner on one of these engines but it looks pretty simply and from what I read, it can be tested with compressed air once removed. That would be a simple test. But it wouldn't tell anything about the rails which the chain runs on which are covered in that Slee page. You may be able to snake a small camera down alongside the chain once the valve cover is removed to get a look at the rails. HF sells a small inspection camera that might work but you can also buy slightly less bulky versions attached to a wire on Ebay for about $15.
Not sure the compression test will get you any more useful info.
Not sure the compression test will get you any more useful info.
- Thread starter
- #53
I figured I would check the compression as long as I have the equipment in hand and I'll be pulling the parts that will allow me to do the back three anyway.
I have a lot of research to do....from what I understand so far I will need to drop the oil pan, pull valve cover and everything in front of the timing cover before I can remove it. If something like the tensioner is the issue....then I have to determine what else I should be doing while I'm in there. I also need to determine where I can find some detailed diagrams....not sure the FSM has the detail I want for understanding what I'm looking at before I dig in.
The video audio doesn't reveal what could certainly be the chain rubbing on a broken rail.....but I think there is more to it than that. The sounds is too consistent. Maybe a broken rail busted the tensioner.
I'm a total hack mechanic.....fortunately I have something else to drive because I don't have the time. I love this rig and expected it would serve me a lot longer.
Likely won't get to pulling the valve cover until Thursday or Friday night....working late the next two nights.
I have a lot of research to do....from what I understand so far I will need to drop the oil pan, pull valve cover and everything in front of the timing cover before I can remove it. If something like the tensioner is the issue....then I have to determine what else I should be doing while I'm in there. I also need to determine where I can find some detailed diagrams....not sure the FSM has the detail I want for understanding what I'm looking at before I dig in.
The video audio doesn't reveal what could certainly be the chain rubbing on a broken rail.....but I think there is more to it than that. The sounds is too consistent. Maybe a broken rail busted the tensioner.
I'm a total hack mechanic.....fortunately I have something else to drive because I don't have the time. I love this rig and expected it would serve me a lot longer.
Likely won't get to pulling the valve cover until Thursday or Friday night....working late the next two nights.
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It would be nice if someone who has had the rails fail, could chime in to comment on what that sounded like. People have written on here that the power steering pumps gets noisy when it fails so that needs to be ruled out also before you start tearing into it any deeper. Did you put the stethescope on the the pump?
- Thread starter
- #55
I failed to listen to the PS pump last night....on my list for sure! I'll be giving everything a good listen before I dig in.
Would make my day if it was the PS pump. Interestingly the noise isn't apparent when cranking.....probably a stupid question, but I wonder if there is any chance the PS pump doesn't turn until the motor actually starts or if its just not turning fast enough.
Would make my day if it was the PS pump. Interestingly the noise isn't apparent when cranking.....probably a stupid question, but I wonder if there is any chance the PS pump doesn't turn until the motor actually starts or if its just not turning fast enough.
Mine sounds this way also, seems to go away higher rpms, and I have wheeled let it run for 5 hrs without shutting her down and sound was almost gone, have had couple people listen both thought maybe timing chain or bad cam? Both said drive it I have close to 300 k so rebuild is def in its future I need to open it up and check but I have no cooling issues and great oil pressure no loss of power, I'll let ya know when I open it, one guy suggested adjusting valves
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- #57
Sounds like we have the same situation. I'm going to be using the mechanics stethoscope on mine again to try to pinpoint the noise before I pull the valve cover to give it a visual. Will let you know what I find if I get her opened up before you.
RockJock82
Sometimes you have to kick a little A$$
Maybe you should sell him an over priced 1FZ for 7k haha... "But it runs forever!" Just trying to help a fellow mudder out sorry big guy... Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD
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RockJock82
Sometimes you have to kick a little A$$
Hope it's something not too invasive! Good luck
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- #60
valve cover off
Well, jumped in with both feet tonight. Valve cover came off...not too terrible. Gotta say....I'm probably getting over my head here. Visually everything looks ok....aside from some carbon. Not bad I would say for 215k.
Any hints on visual things I can look for?
Here are some photos...and yes I realize there are pieces of the plug tube seals there.
Well, jumped in with both feet tonight. Valve cover came off...not too terrible. Gotta say....I'm probably getting over my head here. Visually everything looks ok....aside from some carbon. Not bad I would say for 215k.
Any hints on visual things I can look for?
Here are some photos...and yes I realize there are pieces of the plug tube seals there.
