More info on bubble test for HG leakage?
- Thread starter e9999
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e9999 said:You can also try to rev it at 3K in D but you have to run fast then...
lol. one thing i've learned in MUD 'research' is to steer clear of ambiguities.
Powderpig,
There's no reason for you to take a defensive posture with me as I'm not attacking you. I have seen that you are one of the people in here who has real and hard experience in mechanicing, on this vehicle and presumably on others.
What I do see is a danger of misdiagnosis by inexperienced people for whom these indicators under discussion are not so easily read as they are for you, and for the matter of fact, for me. I don't know why you've concentrated on my wife's ford unless it's a demonstration of a petty personality quirk as I've never so much as put air in one of it's tires. It's an ex-police interceptor package obtained through a somewhat private channel with 66K miles and surprising to me a very reliable vehicle.
I do "bring to the table" over 20 years on the line as a professional automotive mechanic working
on several types of vehicles and another 10 years as a supervisor of vehicle maintenance in a facility of over 120,000 sq, ft, a fleet responsibility of some 2200 vehicles and 53 employess made up predominantly of journeyman auto mechanics along with associated mechanical positions and tiremen, body repairmen, and painters. I'll leave you to guess who might have fleet facilities in sizes like that. I've been retired for near 10 years because of interesting occurances in the 1990s but find that one of the few things I enjoy still is mechanic work. It's odd too, as there were so many times over my working life that I hated it with a complete purity of emotion.
Now as to the situation at hand: yes of course antifreeze will or may escape with the cap off of the radiator. Nevertheless I believe that having the cap off so as to observe the actual flow of coolant to be sure that the thermostat is open is a far more reliable way of determining whether or (hopefully) not there is a condition causing bubbles to emerge from the system. I think that because without doing so there is no way to be certain that the system is actually full in operation. If it is not the air contained will bubble as the vehicle heats and emerge in the overflow tank as nothing more serious than steam. Surely you have encountered owners who dutifully keep their overflow tank to the line without ever realizing that their cap is faulty and not drawing back any replacement for the empty space left as the coolant shrins back from hot to cold? A full overflow and an empty radiator. By only looking at the overflow tank how could it ever be determined which situation is having effect?
To this point Land cruisers are one of my hobbies and I have, or actually within a few days will have, three FJ40s and a BJ40 (I've paid for the BJ40 but not gotten it home yet). Yes, I think I may buy an 80 series for more winter comfort offroad tomorrow and so I've been looking in here more than before. Have I intruded onto something you consider to be your own private kingdom? Gosh, maybe there ought to be a rulebook,eh?
There's nothing so special about these engines that makes them different from others in their essential qualities or operations. One may have overhead cams another not, one may be aluminum another cast iron, one this or one that they are all internal combustion thingies that share basic systems.
So long now, I'll leave you be as it seems to be critically important to you.
There's no reason for you to take a defensive posture with me as I'm not attacking you. I have seen that you are one of the people in here who has real and hard experience in mechanicing, on this vehicle and presumably on others.
What I do see is a danger of misdiagnosis by inexperienced people for whom these indicators under discussion are not so easily read as they are for you, and for the matter of fact, for me. I don't know why you've concentrated on my wife's ford unless it's a demonstration of a petty personality quirk as I've never so much as put air in one of it's tires. It's an ex-police interceptor package obtained through a somewhat private channel with 66K miles and surprising to me a very reliable vehicle.
I do "bring to the table" over 20 years on the line as a professional automotive mechanic working
on several types of vehicles and another 10 years as a supervisor of vehicle maintenance in a facility of over 120,000 sq, ft, a fleet responsibility of some 2200 vehicles and 53 employess made up predominantly of journeyman auto mechanics along with associated mechanical positions and tiremen, body repairmen, and painters. I'll leave you to guess who might have fleet facilities in sizes like that. I've been retired for near 10 years because of interesting occurances in the 1990s but find that one of the few things I enjoy still is mechanic work. It's odd too, as there were so many times over my working life that I hated it with a complete purity of emotion.
Now as to the situation at hand: yes of course antifreeze will or may escape with the cap off of the radiator. Nevertheless I believe that having the cap off so as to observe the actual flow of coolant to be sure that the thermostat is open is a far more reliable way of determining whether or (hopefully) not there is a condition causing bubbles to emerge from the system. I think that because without doing so there is no way to be certain that the system is actually full in operation. If it is not the air contained will bubble as the vehicle heats and emerge in the overflow tank as nothing more serious than steam. Surely you have encountered owners who dutifully keep their overflow tank to the line without ever realizing that their cap is faulty and not drawing back any replacement for the empty space left as the coolant shrins back from hot to cold? A full overflow and an empty radiator. By only looking at the overflow tank how could it ever be determined which situation is having effect?
To this point Land cruisers are one of my hobbies and I have, or actually within a few days will have, three FJ40s and a BJ40 (I've paid for the BJ40 but not gotten it home yet). Yes, I think I may buy an 80 series for more winter comfort offroad tomorrow and so I've been looking in here more than before. Have I intruded onto something you consider to be your own private kingdom? Gosh, maybe there ought to be a rulebook,eh?
There's nothing so special about these engines that makes them different from others in their essential qualities or operations. One may have overhead cams another not, one may be aluminum another cast iron, one this or one that they are all internal combustion thingies that share basic systems.
So long now, I'll leave you be as it seems to be critically important to you.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #24
Honk,
if you have filled your radiator and driven the truck for some time (say a few days) without opening the cap there should be no air left in the system or at least no air that can readily come out by itself, assuming that there is no outside leak (these should be easily visible).
(If you have fluid in the overflow it's very easy to see if the level changes when the temperature goes up or down, of course, that will tell you about the cap. As far as the thermostat, you can tell pretty readily the point at which it opens up just by checking the temperature of the rad, I believe.)
At that point if you see bubbles coming out in the overflow it seems to be a safe bet that these would be combustion gases, don't you think?
if you have filled your radiator and driven the truck for some time (say a few days) without opening the cap there should be no air left in the system or at least no air that can readily come out by itself, assuming that there is no outside leak (these should be easily visible).
(If you have fluid in the overflow it's very easy to see if the level changes when the temperature goes up or down, of course, that will tell you about the cap. As far as the thermostat, you can tell pretty readily the point at which it opens up just by checking the temperature of the rad, I believe.)
At that point if you see bubbles coming out in the overflow it seems to be a safe bet that these would be combustion gases, don't you think?
E, what Honk is saying is that you fill up the rad and drive it until the engine is up to temp. So the air in the system is purged from the expanding coolant. Now you turn off the truck and allow the engine to cool. He's saying that sometimes a bad rad cap will allow air to enter back into the rad as the coolant cools verses drawing the coolant from the resevour. So the next day when you check you level in the rad it's low again.
And if you did the bubble test it would show bubbles.
And if you did the bubble test it would show bubbles.
And that's why before driving on day you need remove the rad. cap to ensure it is full to the VERY TOP. If not replace the cap as step 1. I do this weekly. When the rad. is confirmed full to the top and cold top of the overflow bottle to the full line. The coolant now should always be at the full line when cold. Water is not a consumable. Any loss of water is cause for concern. When this is all as should be do the bubble test. ALSO you can get a dye/paper at NAPA to test CO (emmision gases) in your coolant.
Would bad rad cap could lead to overheating issues too? Would a bad cap create conditions/observations similar to a HG going south, like bubbles? I replaced my cap and fan clutch (thanks Cdan) about 3 weeks ago after seeing a couple of intermittant bubbles in the overflow tank at 3K rpm, and having a mild overheating issue over a gap road in Vermont on vacation. No bubbles in the overflow tank now at 3k rpm. I am still doing the head gasket and radiator as PM.
I would rather be at my own mercy than stuck with an unkown mechanic in the middle of nowhere. I wish powderpig was on the eastcoast. I wouldn't be doing my own service. Powderpig want to travel? 
I would rather be at my own mercy than stuck with an unkown mechanic in the middle of nowhere. I wish powderpig was on the eastcoast. I wouldn't be doing my own service. Powderpig want to travel?
I had some air in my system and the first thing to so was weird idling and running issues. It would seem the ECU temp sensor has some influence on how the air/fuel is controlled. Once I found my small leaks and got the system up to level all those issues went away. During that period I had no temp issues that I am aware of.
Cattledog, what year is your truck?
Cattledog, what year is your truck?
It is a 96 lx450 with 122K and running 1:1 toyota red coolant:distilled water changed out less than 9 months ago.
Powderpig, last year when I flushed my cooling system and converted from geen to red coolant. a week after I had about 5 leaking/seeping coolant lines on or near the firewall including the PHH. I changed them all out and replaced them with green/red silicon hose and constant tension clamps. I notice that the interior of PHH was covered in a green powder grit that when dried was yellow. I still have the hose and can take a pic. I figured it was silicates precipitating from the coolant or the coolant reacting to the EPDM hose (strange). The coolant was old and grey green grit was flushed from my system during the change over. Have you seen this (grit on the PHH) in the past on any of the 1FZ?
Powderpig, last year when I flushed my cooling system and converted from geen to red coolant. a week after I had about 5 leaking/seeping coolant lines on or near the firewall including the PHH. I changed them all out and replaced them with green/red silicon hose and constant tension clamps. I notice that the interior of PHH was covered in a green powder grit that when dried was yellow. I still have the hose and can take a pic. I figured it was silicates precipitating from the coolant or the coolant reacting to the EPDM hose (strange). The coolant was old and grey green grit was flushed from my system during the change over. Have you seen this (grit on the PHH) in the past on any of the 1FZ?
powderpig
SILVER Star
No Honk this is not my private world. But when some one uses words like have baked or down playing some thing that can help people or help them gain knowledge. It irkes me. You may have experence at a huge facility (i would guess some domestic facality), and working on old technology from toyota. How it occurs here is that you are entering into a conversation that has many threads and a couple of years old. I am wondering if you have been lurking for a short time or just jumped in. I did pick on the ford(you have two on your sig line, I personally do not like working on fords, so I do not any more).
This procedure has been describe on how to a couple of times in past posts and can work very well to help piece the puzzle together on if a person has a problem with a knowen problem with head gaskets in the 1FZ engine. I personally see misdiagonsis of these engines(1FZ) alot by "professional ASE certified techs" That charge alot of money with no results. I see trucks that have had Prepurchase inpections done at other facalities not picking up even the basic stuff.
The procudure you seem to think is rediculus is something I have been using for over 20 years to help pin point problems in many makes of engines. Yes, if not done right can lead to a false reading both ways. But has been very suscessful in verifying a compression leak in the 1FZ.
Yes I felt that you were dissing, you may of had lots of previous post in other Mud forums, you are new here in this forum. While this engine has some simliar features to older hardware. There are things that are different about it. The pump flows more coolant, creating more pressure when reving the engine up. As for trying to see bubbles in the top of the radiator fill, I beleve you will not be able to (experenced based on my part). The thermostat is low on the block and coolant flow is different than on older toyota engines. If you want to research this it would be great for your knowledge base. I do believe that the coolant system is best left pressureized so you can pick up a steady stream and this will indicate that their is a problem. Under a pressurized system It is hard to introduce air from a suction source (except for the water pump seal). A stant coolant tester will not pick this up, nor will a cylinder leak down test(unless it real bad), sometime a compression test will.
Maybe honk, you just need to read some past post and gain some knowledge on the 80 series before you call something half baked or downplay this.
Yes the sludge can be called grey or green grey. It is common, Maybe Beowolf can post a link to who has had it analized. Then it may confirm the thoughts that some have come up with, bits of the head gasket. By going back to Toyota red, you have st your self up for the coolant creep I was talking about in the engine. It really is best to stick with what you have in your system ( I believe).
I could not post yesterday, I was in Kenai pen with my mom. Some how when I tried to post from there the software would not accept the post. I had to wait for my return to Anch with my dad. I will be back in Colorado tomorrow. later robbie
This procedure has been describe on how to a couple of times in past posts and can work very well to help piece the puzzle together on if a person has a problem with a knowen problem with head gaskets in the 1FZ engine. I personally see misdiagonsis of these engines(1FZ) alot by "professional ASE certified techs" That charge alot of money with no results. I see trucks that have had Prepurchase inpections done at other facalities not picking up even the basic stuff.
The procudure you seem to think is rediculus is something I have been using for over 20 years to help pin point problems in many makes of engines. Yes, if not done right can lead to a false reading both ways. But has been very suscessful in verifying a compression leak in the 1FZ.
Yes I felt that you were dissing, you may of had lots of previous post in other Mud forums, you are new here in this forum. While this engine has some simliar features to older hardware. There are things that are different about it. The pump flows more coolant, creating more pressure when reving the engine up. As for trying to see bubbles in the top of the radiator fill, I beleve you will not be able to (experenced based on my part). The thermostat is low on the block and coolant flow is different than on older toyota engines. If you want to research this it would be great for your knowledge base. I do believe that the coolant system is best left pressureized so you can pick up a steady stream and this will indicate that their is a problem. Under a pressurized system It is hard to introduce air from a suction source (except for the water pump seal). A stant coolant tester will not pick this up, nor will a cylinder leak down test(unless it real bad), sometime a compression test will.
Maybe honk, you just need to read some past post and gain some knowledge on the 80 series before you call something half baked or downplay this.
Yes the sludge can be called grey or green grey. It is common, Maybe Beowolf can post a link to who has had it analized. Then it may confirm the thoughts that some have come up with, bits of the head gasket. By going back to Toyota red, you have st your self up for the coolant creep I was talking about in the engine. It really is best to stick with what you have in your system ( I believe).
I could not post yesterday, I was in Kenai pen with my mom. Some how when I tried to post from there the software would not accept the post. I had to wait for my return to Anch with my dad. I will be back in Colorado tomorrow. later robbie
