Method Race Wheels Beadlocks Issue

[bwakeling]

i run a spacer kit on mine to prevent coning and haven not had the bolts loosen at all. I tightened them with anti seize. Beadlocks are a bit of a pain though. my front tires loose air all the time and the rears hold it just fine. I had to apply silicon to the bead to seal it up. Will be popping the fronts apart soon to redo it.

 

[GOTLOCKED96]

Good to know, I have the exact same wheels/tires.

I ordered mine with ring spacers.

I was concerned, when they were delivered that the spacers were not installed.

A tech at method said that they were not needed unless I went up in size/width.

 

[Cass007]

Looks like the tire shop may have used some silicone as well.

This is the ring ...

I spoke to the local 4WD shop that helped with the suspension install. They are Jeep guys, but they know tires and beadlocks. As soon as I told him what was happening he said spacers are the answer. Ordered the spacers and now time will tell. He also says they use anti-seize on install as well. Hoping this solves the issue.

 

[PIP]

I have designed alot of stuff with fasteners. I would never use grade 8 for that ring because it's subject to the bending/hoop stress uneven type loading from the rubber tire.

The absolute strength of a fastener is just one part of the equation. Grade 8 will fracture whereas grade 5 will bend and stretch.

If you look closely at things where people's lives are on the line if they fail grade 8/10.9/12.9 hardware is generally not used.

If you need to use grade 8 in that situation then the ring needs to be clamped against a hard stop/shim, not rubber.

 

[Rifleman]

If you look closely at things where people's lives are on the line if they fail grade 8/10.9/12.9 hardware is generally not used.

I have to say, that I'll have to agree, to disagree with you're statement above. Below are just two simple examples of where peoples lives and safety VERY MUCH depend on high grade hardware not failing. Like airplane grade 10 NAS wing bolts that attach the wings to the fuselage. Or like the metric grade 11 brake caliper bolts used to attach the brake calipers on our land cruisers.

 

[PIP]

I have to say, that I'll have to agree, to disagree with you're statement above. Below are just two simple examples of where peoples lives and safety VERY MUCH depend on high grade hardware not failing. Like airplane grade 10 NAS wing bolts that attach the wings to the fuselage. Or like the metric grade 11 brake caliper bolts used to attach the brake calipers on our land cruisers.

Lets do a real basic visual to illustrate just how completely wrong you are. See this big blown up picture of a Toyota Land Cruiser "grade 11" caliper bolt? I just happened to have one handy so I put in a vise and it bent like butter with a 2 foot tube slipped over it. I could bend it right back straight again and install it and the caliper would still do it's job.

Now do you see the 1/2" grade 8 bolt right next to it? I did the same thing, only my 280 lbs wasn't enough on a 2ft bar to bend it so I found a 4ft bar and drilled a 1/2" hole in the end. It took some tugging, but as soon as it barely bent it snapped right off.

Can you understand now why elongation is so important?

BTW, there is no such thing as grade 11.

 

[Rifleman]

View attachment 2953613

Lets do a real basic visual to illustrate just how completely wrong you are. See this big blown up picture of a Toyota Land Cruiser "grade 11" caliper bolt? I just happened to have one handy so I put in a vise and it bent like butter with a 2 foot tube slipped over it. I could bend it right back straight again and install it and the caliper would still do it's job.

Now do you see the 1/2" grade 8 bolt right next to it? I did the same thing, only my 280 lbs wasn't enough on a 2ft bar to bend it so I found a 4ft bar and drilled a 1/2" hole in the end. It took some tugging, but as soon as it barely bent it snapped right off.

Can you understand now why elongation is so important?

BTW, there is no such thing as grade 11.

Bending those bolts via unsupported sheer stress until they bent, or snapped, with a cheater bar proves absolutely nothing. Sheer stress and tensile stress are not the same thing. The Sheer stress your test displayed is not the same type of stress those bolts would experience if they were installed in a supported bolt on application. Sure you bent the caliper bolt over, and were able to bend it back straight. You go on to say that you could install it and it would still do it's job. Problem is when you bent it over, and then bent it back you started a process known as work hardening the steel it's made out of, thereby weakening that bolt. Bend that bolt a few more times, and it will suddenly, and without warning snap in two. So believe what you like, but as i said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[PIP]

Bending those bolts via unsupported sheer stress until they bent, or snapped, with a cheater bar proves absolutely nothing. Sheer stress and tensile stress are not the same thing. The Sheer stress your test displayed is not the same type of stress those bolts would experience if they were installed in a supported bolt on application. Sure you bent the caliper bolt over, and were able to bend it back straight. You go on to say that you could install it and it would still do it's job. Problem is when you bent it over, and then bent it back you started a process known as work hardening the steel it's made out of, thereby weakening that bolt. Bend that bolt a few more times, and it will suddenly, and without warning snap in two. So believe what you like, but as i said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

The type of joint and the type of load on the fastener are two different things.

What you want to design for is a sheer joint with the bolt in tension. That means your fastener is not experiencing sheer because it is applying enough tension for the friction in the sheer joint to not move.

What you have in the beadlock situation is a real mess for fastener design. The surface of the beadlock ring that the bottom of the bolt head bears on is pretty much guaranteed to not be perpendicular to the bolting axis when the bolts are tightened. That means that bolt is never in pure tension as it should be. It will always have a side load.

That is exactly what I simulated with my cheater bar.

If the beadlock fasteners were replaced with grade 5 hardware they would tolerate the shear forces a little better as they will bend instead of crack.

 

[OffGridOverland]

Method Race Wheels MR105 Wheel Matte Black 17x8.5 6x5.5 (6x139.7) 0mm Offset with Beadlocks

I've had these on my truck for a few years now and they have seen some solid use. Pre-Covid I took a hard hit on the rock ring and noticed it snapped off a bolt head. I ignored it for a week or so and that led to more heads popping off. The bolts for the beadlocks are 5/16-18 1.25" Grade 8 zinc plated. I had a friend help me remove the 4 bolt shafts from the rim and installed new bolts to manufacturer's tq spec (20ft lbs). The last bolt being installed snapped on install and the tire place said it may be because the KO2 tires have a thick bead?

Anyway, that rim popped the heads twice more and then a swapped it to spare duty. Went to go wheeling yesterday and got to the park to air down and saw this:
View attachment 2944674

This is now the second rim that is popping off heads. When I say heads, I guess I really mean snapping the bolt shafts just past the threaded portion in the wheel. The rim didn't seem to have any damage on the ring where the bolts snapped off. They seem to have snapped off on the hour long drive on the highway up to the wheeling spot.

Here is a pic of how the others snapped of previously:
View attachment 2944676

I am wondering if anyone else has run into this issue or if anyone has input on whether swapping to Grade 9 bolts should help? I will note that both times I've lost bolt heads it has been on the driver's side front wheel, but it has now been on two different wheels.

What bolts are you using? Do they have a shoulder or are they threaded from the head down?

 

[bwakeling]

The type of joint and the type of load on the fastener are two different things.

What you want to design for is a sheer joint with the bolt in tension. That means your fastener is not experiencing sheer because it is applying enough tension for the friction in the sheer joint to not move.

What you have in the beadlock situation is a real mess for fastener design. The surface of the beadlock ring that the bottom of the bolt head bears on is pretty much guaranteed to not be perpendicular to the bolting axis when the bolts are tightened. That means that bolt is never in pure tension as it should be. It will always have a side load.

That is exactly what I simulated with my cheater bar.

If the beadlock fasteners were replaced with grade 5 hardware they would tolerate the shear forces a little better as they will bend instead of crack.

isnt that what the spacer is supposed to prevent?

 

[Rifleman]

The type of joint and the type of load on the fastener are two different things.

What you want to design for is a sheer joint with the bolt in tension. That means your fastener is not experiencing sheer because it is applying enough tension for the friction in the sheer joint to not move.

What you have in the beadlock situation is a real mess for fastener design. The surface of the beadlock ring that the bottom of the bolt head bears on is pretty much guaranteed to not be perpendicular to the bolting axis when the bolts are tightened. That means that bolt is never in pure tension as it should be. It will always have a side load.

That is exactly what I simulated with my cheater bar.

If the beadlock fasteners were replaced with grade 5 hardware they would tolerate the shear forces a little better as they will bend instead of crack.

Thanks for the civil back and forth, i really enjoyed discussing this topic with you, even so, I'll still have to disagree with your statement, and i quote" If you look closely at things where people's lives are on the line if they fail grade 8/10.9/12.9 hardware is generally not used" end quote. Cheers my friend.

 

[-Spike-]

The type of joint and the type of load on the fastener are two different things.

What you want to design for is a sheer joint with the bolt in tension. That means your fastener is not experiencing sheer because it is applying enough tension for the friction in the sheer joint to not move.

What you have in the beadlock situation is a real mess for fastener design. The surface of the beadlock ring that the bottom of the bolt head bears on is pretty much guaranteed to not be perpendicular to the bolting axis when the bolts are tightened. That means that bolt is never in pure tension as it should be. It will always have a side load.

That is exactly what I simulated with my cheater bar.

If the beadlock fasteners were replaced with grade 5 hardware they would tolerate the shear forces a little better as they will bend instead of crack.

I'll give you the point that the bolts will (might?) bend and stay in place, which is good, but what do you do then? You'll destroy the ring trying to get the bent bolts out. This is not a proper solution. Eliminating the cause of the undue stress on the bolts is what needs to happen. Shimming the ring is the best answer available. Or buying wheels that use a different design. I never liked that style, too many things can go wrong with those rings and bolts.

 

[Cass007]

The Grade 8 bolts are what Method supplies with the wheel and ring combo. I assume they have tested it and found it to be what works best. The bolts are threaded all the way to the heads, so no shoulder. I did locate bolts with a shoulder, but it seems they would be right on the edge of having enough threaded area to not bottom out before making a proper bead seal, so I'm not going to chance it.

At this point the spacers are due to be delivered on Wednesday and I will try again with the Grade 8 hardware (new) with the 1/8" spacers and anti-seize.

 

[PIP]

I'll give you the point that the bolts will (might?) bend and stay in place, which is good, but what do you do then? You'll destroy the ring trying to get the bent bolts out. This is not a proper solution. Eliminating the cause of the undue stress on the bolts is what needs to happen. Shimming the ring is the best answer available. Or buying wheels that use a different design. I never liked that style, too many things can go wrong with those rings and bolts.

It depends on what the shim look like. If the bead clamp was flat on the underside and the shim were flat and selective to match the bead thickness then I agree with you 100%. The pictures of the underside of the bead clamp show it has a big step machined in it so the area directly under the bolts is unsupported. I don't understand why they designed it this way. As the ring bolts are tightened, the ring will deform to clamp the bead, the bolts will then be in shear and break.

The whole bolt head snapping off problem with these strikes me as a "Of coarse that's going to happen- What did they think" kind of problem.

Oh, and by "the bolts will bend" I meant that grade 5 bolts would conform to the surface they are tightened against instead of snapping off. These bolts are experiencing very little actual movement and angular mismatch. But the movement/mismatch happening is enough to cause a grade 8 bolt to fail. I believe that grade 5 would be more tolerant in this situation provided there are enough to handle the load.

 

[baldilocks]

The bolts are not the issue as other wheel manufacturers us the exact same 5/16 grade 8 coarse thread bolts. I run Trail Ready beadlock wheels now and also 10 years ago on a rig running 40’s. I’ve beaten on both sets and have never had a bolt break.

The shim should solve this problem secured with new bolts coated liberally with Anti-seize and torqued gradually skipping around the rim.

We will need an update on this down the road a year or so.

 

[zidaro]

Been running beadlocks for a few decades. Zero issues.
I have 2 sets of Trailreadys, 1 set of Racelines, 1 set of Allied, 1 set of Methods Run them at high pressures, low pressures, on street and trail, and beaten them all across baja and S. West. I use anti-seize on all of the bolts. I also have thick bead specific rings OR spacers to use. All my tires are Thick bead. Toyo MT, Pitbull, and Mickey Thompson.

directly off Trailready website--

Step4. InstallingtheClampRing.
With the pocketed holes facing away from the tire, index the valve stem relief to the valve stem and center all the clamp holes over the wheel bolt flange holes. Using a cross hatch pattern, tighten all bolts, in steps a few ft.lbs. at a time, working your way around the clamp until 20 ft.lbs. is achieved. Depending on the thickness of the bead on your tire, you should have no gap or an even gap between the wheel bolt flange and the back of the clamp ring **
It is normal for the clamp to distort into a slight cone shape when properly tightened. DO NOT EXCEED 20 FT.LBS ON THE BEADLOCK BOLTS. DO NOT ALLOW THE END OF THE STARTER BOLTS OR BEADLOCK BOLTS TO DRIVE INTO THE WHEEL. THIS WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY, AND CAN DAMAGE THE WHEEL
** If the thickness of the tire bead, at 20 lbs ft., leaves a gap between the rim and ring, you will have an improper assembly, the result of which is potentially going to fatigue the bolts over a period of time and cause them to break. We offer 3/16” spacers to correct this problem.


Method Race Wheel Bedlock guidlines-

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0116/6842/files/MRW_10112021_Beadlock-Guidelines.pdf?v=1635189654

where they include a torque spec. chart for G8 hardware with and without anti-sieze
where they clearly mention a spacer to properly fit thick beads---
"MAKE SURE TIRE BEAD SEATS EVENLY TO OUTSIDE FLANGE OF WHEEL.
-A BEADLOCK RING SPACER MAY BE REQUIRED FOR LARGER TIRES. PLEASE CALL TO CONFIRM FITMENT PRIOR TO ASSEMBLY."

and... so everyone is covered. Racelines install instructions. Which also include a video and diagram and instructions to clarify spacer requirements and torque specs.

Beadlock Installation – Raceline Wheels

*Be sure install a valve stem before mounting tire onto the wheel

racelinewheels.com

I know. Im a man too. Hate reading and having to follow instructions!!!!

 

[baldilocks]

Been running beadlocks for a few decades. Zero issues.
I have 2 sets of Trailreadys, 1 set of Racelines, 1 set of Allied, 1 set of Methods Run them at high pressures, low pressures, on street and trail, and beaten them all across baja and S. West. I use anti-seize on all of the bolts. I also have thick bead specific rings OR spacers to use. All my tires are Thick bead. Toyo MT, Pitbull, and Mickey Thompson.

directly off Trailready website--

Step4. InstallingtheClampRing.
With the pocketed holes facing away from the tire, index the valve stem relief to the valve stem and center all the clamp holes over the wheel bolt flange holes. Using a cross hatch pattern, tighten all bolts, in steps a few ft.lbs. at a time, working your way around the clamp until 20 ft.lbs. is achieved. Depending on the thickness of the bead on your tire, you should have no gap or an even gap between the wheel bolt flange and the back of the clamp ring **
It is normal for the clamp to distort into a slight cone shape when properly tightened. DO NOT EXCEED 20 FT.LBS ON THE BEADLOCK BOLTS. DO NOT ALLOW THE END OF THE STARTER BOLTS OR BEADLOCK BOLTS TO DRIVE INTO THE WHEEL. THIS WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY, AND CAN DAMAGE THE WHEEL
** If the thickness of the tire bead, at 20 lbs ft., leaves a gap between the rim and ring, you will have an improper assembly, the result of which is potentially going to fatigue the bolts over a period of time and cause them to break. We offer 3/16” spacers to correct this problem.


Method Race Wheel Bedlock guidlines-

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0116/6842/files/MRW_10112021_Beadlock-Guidelines.pdf?v=1635189654

where they include a torque spec. chart for G8 hardware with and without anti-sieze
where they clearly mention a spacer to properly fit thick beads---
"MAKE SURE TIRE BEAD SEATS EVENLY TO OUTSIDE FLANGE OF WHEEL.
-A BEADLOCK RING SPACER MAY BE REQUIRED FOR LARGER TIRES. PLEASE CALL TO CONFIRM FITMENT PRIOR TO ASSEMBLY."

and... so everyone is covered. Racelines install instructions. Which also include a video and diagram and instructions to clarify spacer requirements and torque specs.

Beadlock Installation – Raceline Wheels

*Be sure install a valve stem before mounting tire onto the wheel

racelinewheels.com

I know. Im a man too. Hate reading and having to follow instructions!!!!

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View attachment 2959217

I mounted new Mickey Thompson MTZ P3 tires on new trail ready wheels without a spacer. The ring is seated against the wheel and appears to be flat. Your post has me interested in taking a closer look at my wheels.

 

[zidaro]

I mounted new Mickey Thompson MTZ P3 tires

Mine re the ATZ P3 n a 37x17 D rated. They are not a super thick bead, like the Toyo. and the Pitbull have a huge bead thickness. I think the MT has what they call a thick "rim guard" bead? but it was thick enough to get a solid pinch. Your likely fine if your rings are not distorted way in concave style. That puts an undue stress on the bolts head. But what do i know- ive actually never popped a bolt.

I think another way bolts are sheered is by hasty install. I am super anal about getting my tire centered on the rim, and getting that ring started very evenly, then it just comes down to patiently torquing them. Usually i allow a full 6pack of Sierra Nevada for each pair, that is a good metric

 

[baldilocks]

Mine re the ATZ P3 n a 37x17 D rated. They are not a super thick bead, like the Toyo. and the Pitbull have a huge bead thickness. I think the MT has what they call a thick "rim guard" bead? but it was thick enough to get a solid pinch. Your likely fine if your rings are not distorted way in concave style. That puts an undue stress on the bolts head. But what do i know- ive actually never popped a bolt.

I think another way bolts are sheered is by hasty install. I am super anal about getting my tire centered on the rim, and getting that ring started very evenly, then it just comes down to patiently torquing them. Usually i allow a full 6pack of Sierra Nevada for each pair, that is a good metric

Yes, very gradual torquing needs to be emphasized here.

 

[cody c]

Crazy.

If the bolts are popping off that easily I’d be inclined to think the design was under engineered.

Hearing stories about others use them with no issues in all sorts of scenarios kind of undermines that notion a bit.

Probably the smartest thing to do would be melt that wheel down and get another one, but I’d be curious about drilling/tapping for oversized bolts just to see how it works. Something like a flat head M8 torx or similar.

If I counted right I think your rings are only 24 bolts? Other brands use more sometimes