Making a 40 bulletproof... (1 Viewer)

[Tigerstripe40]

I don't want to hijack climbers thread on the splitcase/orion issue so I am starting a new thread here.

To continue...

Toyota 40/60/70 series full-float axles were not available with a centered diff or a high pinion center section and you are going to need both of those with the Atlas in a short wheelbase vehicle.


Currie high pinion 9" diff and heavy duty do not go hand in hand from what I have seen on the trail, even with 35 spline axles.

I figure its going to be a slippery slope to upgrade to beefier stuff..

It seems, though, that any upgrades that would be significant increases in strength would be a t-case swap with a centered rear output (Atlas, Dana 300, NP205 etc).

Any significant upgrades in strength to the rear end would be a centered rear end (Ford 9, Dana 60, 14 bolt, etc).

To keep the 'Cruiser offset stuff, if I upgrade the t-case to a split case, I loose my parking brake, so I have to swap my rear end out, as I already have Monte Carlo rear disc brakes and plenty of spare axle shafts. I am reluctant to throw that away for an FJ60 rear end (which I have, but needs new backing plates, brake lines, wheel cylinders, drums etc). And then I am still using a c-cliped, semi floater setup (which I don't have spares for). If I am going through that much time and effort, why not get something stronger?

The poly performance cromo semifloat shafts seem to be good, but the stuff I have heard is that the bearing surface isn't hardened properly, so the axle shafts get chewed up by the bearings and fail anyhow. Unless that has changed that isn't an upgrade IMHO.

FWIW
the price difference between putting together a 'Cruiser fullfloat and a rockjock or a trailgear using a TrueHi9 is about $500

 

[bustanutley]

35s 4.88s and an sm420 sure sounds like a happy combo to me. Are you thinking about going to bigger tires? The slope turns into a cliff really fast..

 

[Tigerstripe40]

35s 4.88s and an sm420 sure sounds like a happy combo to me. Are you thinking about going to bigger tires? The slope turns into a cliff really fast..

Eventually, 37's
I want to be able to drive the truck to Moab, wheel the snot out of it and drive it home and not worry.

Currently, the 'achillies heel' of my rig are the 1 piece '4 speed' t-case and the semifloater rear shafts. That said, I have a spare housing and spare semifloater shafts.

T-case is currently 1.9:1 (stock '4 speed' t-case).
It's plenty low enough on the trail, I am just looking for a bit more 'beef' in the t-case. I'd like to get an Orion housing and then some sort of upgraded front output (someone made a billet front output, but no longer), but I can't get just the housing and there are no upgraded front output 'nosecones' currently (though, I do have a spare).

 

[bustanutley]

If I were in your shoes, which I was several years ago, I would ditch that clunker sm420, put a h42 back in there and then pick either orion or splitcase in either 3:1 or 4:1 flavor depending on your future plans. Stick with 37s, forever, yota axle bits will be very reliable at that size, but, bring your spare shafts with you and leave them at camp. I have seen you talk about SOA, skip that. Put your would be money at big axle parts at some coilovers and rod ends, and be happy with your mildly built truck that can go on mild to hard trails at a decent clip comfortably.

 

[Tapage]

I have seen you talk about SOA, skip that

if $$$ is not an issue I'm agree .. if not the case .. SO offers good compromises ..

 

[Poser]

FWIW
the price difference between putting together a 'Cruiser fullfloat and a rockjock or a trailgear using a TrueHi9 is about $500

I would be interested in seeing your numbers comparison for this, considering an ARB TrueHi9 shipped to your door with all the 'bulletproofing' is 3184.00.

With that, you do not have a strong (read fabricated, not stamped Currie HD) axle housing, axle shafts,(my CTM 300M full-float shafts were 350.00each) brakes, or the 1350 rear CV drive shaft (500.00+ from High Angle)


And then there is the cost of having spares for your custom truck, becasue no one will have axles or a 1350 CV rear drive shaft or custom front shaft when they get damaged.



I spent A LOT of money on my 40 in 2005.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I would be interested in seeing your numbers comparison for this, considering an ARB TrueHi9 shipped to your door with all the 'bulletproofing' is 3184.00.

With that, you do not have a strong (read fabricated, not stamped Currie HD) axle housing, axle shafts,(my CTM 300M full-float shafts were 350.00each) brakes, or the 1350 rear CV drive shaft (500.00+ from High Angle)

RockJock 60 w/ Detroit and 4.88: 3830 (using Currie Enterprises build now tool)
Currie 35 spline axle shafts: 480
Total: 4310

Trail Gear 9
Rock Assault 9 roller: 1499
True HI9 w/ 4.86 and Detroit 2399
Drive Slugs: 189
Total 4366

RuffStuff fab housing for full floater using all new parts (where available).

Housing 670
shafts 350
FF pucks 195
spindles 200
hubs 260
bearings 90
rotor 80
caliper 240
hub studs 112
lug studs 60
axle seals 56
drive flange 150
spindle studs 30
bearing nuts 16
4.88 Detroit diff 1300
brake pads 20
3829

3829 vs 4366 total difference is 537.

I did not figure in shipping, brake lines, and various odds and ends however, I figure that the cost differences there would be the same.

I do realize that with an atlas and centered rear diff, I will need to get some different drive shafts done. However, if I am doing a spring over or a linked setup at the same time, I would need to do the same with 'Cruiser stuff and figured it would be a wash either way.

You do bring up a good point, though about not having many 1350 CV shafts available as spares.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All,

Tigerstripe40, it seems like you are on a tight budget (I can relate to that! ) so just pick-up a GM 14 bolt FF for ~$200 and shave it, convert it to disc brakes, and add a pair of 8-to-6 wheel lug adapters.

Just my US$00.02

Regards,

Alan


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerstripe40

I've been thinking about that too.
The issue I am finding is that I want to make the truck as bulletproof as realistically possible. I have the 30 spline longfield goodies in the front axle of my 40. The rear axle and t-case seem to be the weak points now (though, I've never broken any of these things, I am very easy on the rig and feel that I would like to try harder trails but am held back by the fact that I need to drive the truck home and I don't want to break anything that would prevent that).

Considering a rear full floater, which is the next step in strength. The prices I've seen on the 40/60/70 'Cruiser full floaters are a bit higher than I am comfortable paying for a moderate upgrade in strength. On my spreadsheet,it seems that getting a Currie High Pinion Ford 9" is not any more money than building up a custom cruiser full floater. And then I get 35 spline shafts and an axle mounted parking brake.

Perhaps in the end, it might be better to just buy a flatbed trailer....

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Why build your own FF axle when you can run a FJ60 FF rear or a FZJ80 FF rear? That's keeping it Toyota, so spares will be plentiful. Throw some PP axle shafts in either, some ARP hub studs, maybe an extra dowel or two in the hubs and you've got an axle that you'll be hard-pressed to break with 37s.

Not as a plug, but that's what I did from 2009-late 2012 and never had any issues after upgrading to chromoly shafts. I've got mine for sale, with the shafts, for what I think is a reasonable price ($900).

A split case and a Toyota FF rear axle is a very strong combo.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Why build your own FF axle when you can run a FJ60 FF rear or a FZJ80 FF rear? That's keeping it Toyota, so spares will be plentiful. Throw some PP axle shafts in either, some ARP hub studs, maybe an extra dowel or two in the hubs and you've got an axle that you'll be hard-pressed to break with 37s.

Not as a plug, but that's what I did from 2009-late 2012 and never had any issues after upgrading to chromoly shafts. I've got mine for sale, with the shafts, for what I think is a reasonable price ($900).

A split case and a Toyota FF rear axle is a very strong combo.

I've considered all of this. When Specter was selling the FF rears for $500 I would have jumped on it, but those prices have gone up significantly.

A few months ago, I came VERY close to pulling the trigger on a 79 series rear end (it was loaded in the back of my truck and I was about to hand over the cash) when I noticed that the rear end was the 5 on 200mm bolt pattern, rather than the 6 on 5.5. I made a call to Kurt and come to find out the third I have (already set up with 4.88's and a locker) would not have worked with the axle, nor would it have been easy to convert the bolt pattern over. Getting another set of rims and carrying 2 spares just did not appeal to me, nor did loosing the money already spent on gears and locker, getting spares etc.

From the list I posted above, I actually have quite a bit of the parts (FJ60 rear housing, hubs, rotors, spindles, brakes, etc) to put together a custom full floater. My biggest difficulty there is getting the spindles and adapter pucks lined up straight and in line so that I don't have any handling quirks. But the parking brake would still be on the t-case.

I've decided that eventually the truck will get a V8 and automatic (I'd like to do 2UZ-A340-Atlas or 4.70 toyota t-case). So going to a centered rear end would be the better bet.

 

[mookie]

I've decided that eventually the truck will get a V8 and automatic (I'd like to do 2UZ-A340-Atlas or 4.70 toyota t-case). So going to a centered rear end would be the better bet.

If this is the case then do yourself a huge favor and put a 14B in with a 1 ton driveshaft

 

[GLTHFJ60]

If this is the case then do yourself a huge favor and put a 14B in with a 1 ton driveshaft

I agree completely.

 

[StevoJonesFJ60]

I say go big and swap some axletech 4000's in there.

Or on a reasonable note just put the 14 bolt in, its gonna be wide unless you can find one of the 63" WMS-WMS models.
Stupid strong, and if you do manage to break a shaft its $25 dollars at most pick and pulls.

 

[mookie]

The 63" c&c 14's are really easy to find and if you do get a srw 67" one all you gotta do is swap hubs

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I've got a buddy who has a 14bolt that I can probably have if I haul it off his property...
Now, to get the 2UZ drive train... *eyes roomies 2000 tundra suspiciously*

 

[Firephil]

If your putting a 1 ton in the rear you might want to think about a d60 up front as well. Either do it now or realize later that you don't trust your front with the 42s that you just "had" to put on.

Your at a crossroads right now and you need to seriously think about what and why you are going to do next. its either mild and run what you have now or bite the bullet and plan the whole thing. You half ass going forward from here and you will be chasing it for a long long time and cost yourself a hell of a lot more money and stress.

Just my meager .02

Go big is my vote

 

['74 UA FJ]

If your putting a 1 ton in the rear you might want to think about a d60 up front as well. Either do it now or realize later that you don't trust your front with the 42s that you just "had" to put on.

Your at a crossroads right now and you need to seriously think about what and why you are going to do next. its either mild and run what you have now or bite the bullet and plan the whole thing. You half ass going forward from here and you will be chasing it for a long long time and cost yourself a hell of a lot more money and stress.

Just my meager .02

Go big is my vote

Words of wisdom right there. I've been through it myself.

 

[zags]

If your putting a 1 ton in the rear you might want to think about a d60 up front as well. Either do it now or realize later that you don't trust your front with the 42s that you just "had" to put on.

Your at a crossroads right now and you need to seriously think about what and why you are going to do next. its either mild and run what you have now or bite the bullet and plan the whole thing. You half ass going forward from here and you will be chasing it for a long long time and cost yourself a hell of a lot more money and stress.

Just my meager .02

Go big is my vote

100% on the money here.

To take it one step further, if you really going to go rock crawling and not just have a vehicle that looks like a rock crawler, you are going to break stuff, lots of stuff, no matter what you run. Also, you will incur lots of body damage and roll over regularly. Do you want to cut up and wad up a decent Land Cruiser, or save yourself money and regret and just buy or build a rock buggy with an Atlas and 60's? Big parts and light weight make the best rock crawlers. Sure, you can run many of the trails in Moab with 33's and Toyota axles, but if you are looking to run the tough stuff on 38's or better, either plan on spending a lot of money on a steep learning curve, or buy a tow rig and trailer, and leave the stock body an drivetrain Toyota at home and bring a purpose built buggy.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

100% on the money here.

To take it one step further, if you really going to go rock crawling and not just have a vehicle that looks like a rock crawler, you are going to break stuff, lots of stuff, no matter what you run. Also, you will incur lots of body damage and roll over regularly. Do you want to cut up and wad up a decent Land Cruiser, or save yourself money and regret and just buy or build a rock buggy with an Atlas and 60's? Big parts and light weight make the best rock crawlers. Sure, you can run many of the trails in Moab with 33's and Toyota axles, but if you are looking to run the tough stuff on 38's or better, either plan on spending a lot of money on a steep learning curve, or buy a tow rig and trailer, and leave the stock body an drivetrain Toyota at home and bring a purpose built buggy.

Therein lies the rub.

The tub is junk, its rusted to H*ll, it's bent, the cowl and firewall aren't straight. There is no sense in trying to resurrect this tub. I've thought long and hard about either getting a good steel tub, or an aqualu, or a gozzard. But decided this truck is gong to be a rock crawler.

I've been building a bumper and the pic I attached shows the state of the tub. I suppose I could cut out the quarter panels, wheel well tops, rocker panels etc. and reskin it, but... I'm, also more seriously considering cutting the tub off at the firewall and tubing it from there back. Have the 'Cruiser look but make it a 'core crawler.

For the kind of money involved with a new tub, I could get a GoatBuilt IBEX chassis and build that up.

Its just that I need to build this up incrementally due to budget.